K1200LT Clutch lifespan

[Colyn]

I am curious ... I do ride my bike, 2005LT, fairly hard but no dragging from robots or attempted wheelies :) ... just hard riding. I rarely commute with it so my mileage are mostly open road touring. Friday I took it out because I had to go across the city for a meeting and it was close to traffic peak. To my amazement the clutch started slipping ... 38,000 kms ... is this about the lifespan of a LT Clutch.

Sorry if I am duplicating anything.

[cws]

Lost mine @ 16,000km, but thats city commuting, using 5th at too low speeds (excessive gear changes) and doing some "silly" things..... :-)
Replaced under warranty as premature.

I dont believe it should be normal, got any warranty left Colyn?

[donsobeck]

Had 90,000 miles on a 99LT and it was only .015 thinner then a new disk.
Give it the old slip test, going about a 100k in 5th gear floor it. If it slips the clutch has oil on it.

DON

[eljeffe]

Had the rear main seal not gone on me at 76k miles, I think it would have gone 150,000 miles. When they cracked her open to replace the seal, the clutch pad looked brand new and was almost as thick as the new one.

[bulletbill]

128K and still going, at 103K lost the slave cylinder, got a little fluid on her slipped a little, then every thing has been OK!

[Colyn]

Thanks guys ... no warranty left.

Yep ... when doing around 60km/h in 3rd and I open up ... it slips. I also think it is oil.

[Sereman]

Colyn: I have enjoyed your many posts. Thank you! My main rear seal failed at 24K miles. I had the same S&S of slipping.

Best

AL

[Colyn]

Thanks Al.

I spoke to the Powers That Are ;) ... and I am taking my bike to a dealer in Pretoria on Thursday. The Powers want a full report on the fault and it looks like they may assist here.

Just once again shows that if you are willing to be reasonable the Powers are usually willing to listen.

I have always maintained that in a Global picture the BMW brand is a big role player and although in bikes they are actually tiny they do care enough about the BRAND to not purposely try and shaft their customers.

I will post the outcome here and thanks again to those that responded.

[motorman587]

54K and still going............knocking on wood.

[JCabranes]

2 clutch replacements in less than 19k miles. First at around 1,300 miles - slave cylinder, second at around 18,500 - rear seal. I am not amused. All repaired under warranty. Hopefully, this is the end of the clutch problems.

[harv054]

22 1/2 K miles and I'm right in the middle of a clutch job.

Not a bad job really ........ just lots and lots of little steps.

I've never been this deep into a modern motorcycle, but it's actually very much like a rear drive auto of which I've done several.

Between the Clymer's manual, the BMW shop manual, and this site, there is plenty of info about the little things you need to watch out for.

The poor bike really looks sad all dis-emboweled with the front wheel sitting on the lift, a jack under the engine, and the rear hanging from the garage roof framing.

Slave cylinder leaked all over the clutch plate.

Other than that, the plate, pressure plate, and clutch cover look great from the wear stand point, they were just covered with in a mess of Dot 4 and clutch dust.

Harv

[Colyn]

Spoke to the Technician today ... there is NO SIGN OF OIL in the bell housing.

Some wear is visible on the clutch plate but nothing serious. He can see no reason why the clutch is slipping.

We discussed this and I mentioned to him that from my experience with these things the erratic slipping and the absence of oil it might be one of two things ... release bearing acting up or a sticky slave cylinder.

He will look at that but he doubts it that it is the release bearing because that will be noisy at least and or clearly felt on the bike. So it leaves the slave.

Any ideas ?

[sheldan2]

if nothing else have him replace the slave cylinder, and flush the clutch completely. My clutch was still good at 70k miles when my transmission decided to eat itself, but replaced everything while in there anyway.

[Colyn]

Ok the final resolution ...

They replaced everything in the bell housing and Motorrad SA paid 50% of the cost. Once again my faith in the BMW Brand paid off.

I have not collected the bike because my new bike arrived and is currently in pieces ;) ... getting painted ... I don't want a black bike ... they are invisible on the roads and black is hard to keep clean if you have to travel on some dirt to get to the tar.

I hope to collect the new bike sometime next week ... I will do a photo story on collecting it because the dealer that did the deal is around 600km away from my home.

[wacolt]

I will do a photo story on collecting it because the dealer that did the deal is around 600km away from my home.

Can't wait to see your photo spread. Maybe sunset in the background . . . telephoto lens shot with LT in the foreground mountains behind with twin LT blurring past the lens . . . more pictures of speed!!!

[Wolfgang]

For what it is worth:

My clutch started slipping when the bike had about 10,000 miles on it. I never got around to take it to the dealer. All of a sudden I realized it was no longer slipping, that was 30,000 miles ago. It has never slipped again. I replaced the slave a while back just because I read so much about it here. It had no leaks at all. Beats me, usually when a clutch starts slipping it gets worst in a hurry.

[Caveno]

My last bike - VStar 1100, I replaced it after 35k or so, and it wasn't slipping that much. I've got like 35k on my LT and the clutch is like new, with hard city driving. I think it has a lot to do w how u shift. I see a lot of people start on second, go slow on 5th, etc. That will wear your clutch out fast.

[Voyager]

My last bike - VStar 1100, I replaced it after 35k or so, and it wasn't slipping that much. I've got like 35k on my LT and the clutch is like new, with hard city driving. I think it has a lot to do w how u shift. I see a lot of people start on second, go slow on 5th, etc. That will wear your clutch out fast.

Second gear starts I understand. How does going slow in 5th wear out the clutch?

Matt

[rattler50]

I bought my bike at 15.6K and put a clutch in it at 19K. I have 41K on it now after the weep hole fix that might have saved me at 15K.............. :eek:

[LAF]

Second gear starts I understand. How does going slow in 5th wear out the clutch?

Matt

IMHO it will not. You may drop your lower end though if you try to make her move too fast from fifth gear but the clutch is not going to get hurt.

Second gear yes/no. If you just let the clutch out and don't bring the RPM up to what is needed to get it moving in second then yes I can see it being hard on the clutch.

[jzeiler]

I had one second gear start when I was pissed off at the guy that cut me off, I cranked way too much RPM (3,500 then up) as I slipped the clutch. There was a lot of stink after that. Never did it again, high RPM one's that is. I have done a few 2nd gear starts (inadvertent) but I was more conservative on the RPM those times.

[cyclecamper]

Early K1200LTs had a higher first gear, and correspondingly required more slipping to launch. I went thru clutches before every 10,000 miles until I gave up and sold my LT after wasting about $6K on clutches. Coming from real sportbikes to the LT I expected it to launch better; even wings have better clutches, and I'm used to transverse-crank bikes where the clutch is easily accessible. I hear the later LTs are better, and I considered changing the final drive ratio on my year 2000, and ripping out most of the audio, making a real "light truck" but it seemed better to let someone else enjoy it for what it already is. I went back to performance motorcycles. The LT could never keep up with sportbikes or even current sport-touring bikes, wasn't meant to, and had acceptable performance for most uses...but it was not meant to be ridden in a manner which expected to constantly use all the performance it offered, especially with me splitting lanes in my commute and then launching hard from each stoplight. A good third or fourth bike for 2-up weekend scenic touring it's just the wrong bike for 90% of my uses. I was always getting stuck off-road ( DOH!) in sand (just expecting it to do what my other bikes did), and the few times I've had to pick it up were just negative reinforcement lessons to not let it go down. I tried double diaphragm springs in the clutch (huge improvement at the cost of a little more lever pull, but then the slave didn't last) and other mods too, but once I modified the intake and exhaust and put in the Rhinewest chip the clutch limited the fun. And I never really became comfortable with the weight of the LT, might be OK for stronger or larger guys, but just didn't fit me, I'd have to remove 200 lbs to really enjoy it. In the twisties it just doesn't cut it compared to a sport-touring bike or sportbike. I expected the LT to be more multi-purpose and flexible, more car-like; but for me it's really way too narrow-focus with that focus skewed. Just after I sold it I got a job at Yamaha supporting their mainframe, so maybe next year I'll use the employee discount. Right now I've accumulated a garagefull of Suzuki TL1000 parts and soon will start building one...Yosh/Carillo rods, Ferrea valves, VeeTwo cams, etc. I've got a Cagiva w/ Ducati engine in my dad's garage 2,000 miles away, needs work...maybe I'll sell it maybe I'll rework it first. Right now I'm bikeless, and probably will be for another year.

Loved you guys on-list, and thanks for tolerating me thru my less-than-stable "divorce years"...I'm sure I was irritating and irritable at times, typical cranky curmudgeon individualist motorcyclist...so this is a last fond goodbye.

Sold the LT to a guy in Huntington Beach coming off his Harley, he seems to love the LT, and he probably likes the polished LT forks and polished front wheel and polished side kick plates etc. and the lights I added. I think if I was coming off a Harley I'd like the LT too, but coming off a Ducati my heart wasn't in it, and the LT clutch was a real disappointment coming so far short of BMW's reputation for durability. If I drove it too hard, it wasn't the right bike for me, 'cause I've been able to drive 20 other bikes much harder...the clutch was the final straw. I polished it up some, put in a new clutch, and sold it for $6000; he got a great deal.

email me at gregorypinkowski@verizon.net if the urge arises.

[jzeiler]

even wings have better clutches,

Well yeah, the Gold Wing has a multi-plate WET clutch just like almost every non-BMW, sport bike out there. Some people just can't make the switch from a wet clutch start to a dry clutch start. Totally different technique, and if you don't get it right you will be burning up clutches.

[cfell]

My early HD's were "dry clutch".. noisy, rattly, etc... but they covered up the noise of the loose bolts.

Now, the LT, a dry clutch just like my cars.. and I'm at 36k miles.. still pulling strong.

I used to win all the "slow race" games at the HOG pikniks.....and I only replaced the clutch and plates after I rebuilt the engine as a precaution..

If the LT doesn't leak, I have every hope the clutch will last the life of the bike...

[Taz]

I have a 99LT just rolled over 152,000 miles and clutch is working fine. My main seal has been leaking for over 100,000 miles. I will post again at 200,000 on my clutch, thinking positive...

Taz

[leiboshi]

I had 35000 km in my LT 2000.

It has long 1st gear, so some much slipping is needed in low speed.

I did not have slipping in clutch, but I because it was gripping so high, just when I released the clutch lever from hand, I was worried about weared clutch plate. So, I changed it. There was less than 0.1 mm wear in it. So, it was unnecessary thing to do it. Most likely it would have gone 100.000 km without too much wear.

Leiboshi

[drjohn55]

what is the difference between a dry clutch start and a wet clutch start

[Colyn]

I dont think it is about the "start" ... the clutch on a specific bike is either DRY or WET.

[docedkin]

Traded my '99 at about 62K. No clutch problems at all.
On my '05, the clutch started to slip at about 35K and it was replaced. The clutch was blue from excessive heat. No sense of the cause. Now have 83K on the '05 and no clutch problems. Three clutches. . .all ridden effectively the same way. One burned out. Hummmmm.

[Zeke]

I have a 99LT just rolled over 152,000 miles and clutch is working fine. My main seal has been leaking for over 100,000 miles. I will post again at 200,000 on my clutch, thinking positive...

Taz
GO taz;

I have 116k, maybe I will catch you. Same here, main seal drip but no clutch issues.
Just got back from NS, fully loaded including SO no issues.
See you at 200k.

Zeke

[cyclecamper]

Maybe I was just unlucky, maybe hte next guy I sold it to will run it for a million miles. But I went thru what, 4 or 5 clutches in maybe 35,000 miles, and the bike was apart more than it was together. No help from warranty nor BMW. WHen you open it and it's all a mess, it's hard to tell why. One I suspect was the engine main seal, and my primary always was a little noisy, perhaps the primary driven gear had play and always caused leaks?? Changed to the improved dual-lip seal at the first replacement. Once might have been the slave, no fluid obvious but the slave's operation was suspect. But my first clutch, I was breaking the bike in pretty gently. Second clutch was all highway miles...I had it installed as I left Chicago, it was shot when I reached California. Whatever the individual causes, it's just been a nightmare for me, perhaps just an unfortunate convergence of too many possible problems.

One thing worth noting: the last clutch was installed by Mitch's MOtorcycle Repair; he used to be the head mechanic at Marty's BMW in Torrance until they closed. They made a point of installing the seal to a particular depth, rather than fully seated...claimed it was the preferred technique. I'll never know whether that helped, 'cause I sold the bike. But if someone else is getting hundreds of thousands of miles then I can only conclude that my bike was a lemon and should have been replaced by BMW. Instead, all I ever got was the line "clutches aren't covered"...

[Voyager]

what is the difference between a dry clutch start and a wet clutch start

No difference. Let out the clutch smoothly at the minimum RPM you can use without stalling. I can generally start out on the level without exceeding 1200 RPM. Obviously, on a hill you require a lot more or if you need to really scoot to get outta someone's way!

The biggest difference between a wet and dry clutch is that a wet clutch will generally take a lot more abuse as they are cooled by the oil. I guess another advantage is you don't have to worry about oil leaking onto a wet clutch and causing your clutch to slip!

[bulletbill]

GO taz;

I have 116k, maybe I will catch you. Same here, main seal drip but no clutch issues.
Just got back from NS, fully loaded including SO no issues.
See you at 200k.

Zeke

133K and counting!! 102k lost the slave cylinder, didn't have the time or money to replace the clutch, buttoned it backup and it stopped slipping in a couple days and it's still working great..

[dmatson]

First gear is so tall (60mph @ redline)that is puts alot of pressure on the clutch. If the LT had a nice low first gear two up on a hill in traffic wouldn't be a pannick fest! Once the clutch is hooked up and the RR's are above 3500 you have all the power you could need.

[markmoloney]

34K miles and I am on my 4th clutch. I ride quite easily usually on motorways.
Really bad design. My two previous LT's went forever with no clutch problems.

[Voyager]

34K miles and I am on my 4th clutch. I ride quite easily usually on motorways.
Really bad design. My two previous LT's went forever with no clutch problems.

What is the failure mode or modes? Are the disks simply wearing out? Or is the issue leaks from the engine or slave cylinder?

[markmoloney]

Transmission oil leaking through the seal to the clutch.

[Lost_but_Happy]

my problem was due to the clutch spring. It went bad and caused premature wear on the cluth plate.

[Shad4545]

Doing clutch job now, 66,000 miles. Has anyone rebuilt clutch rather than buying from BMW? Are there any other options? What is original thickness on stock clutch? Mine has 5.7mm left with minimum thickness according to book at 4.6mm. Slave went bad and thought I would replace while in the neighborhood.

[brandydog]

I see that several slave cylinders have failed. Any thoughts as to :confused: why? I cycle new DOT4 thru the clutch system once a month. My 2002LT has 71000 on it, ridden daily city and freeway, and the clutch still feels new.

John Olive
Apple Valley, CA

[UKTzero]

2000 LTC ... now has 103,000 miles on it, original clutch and I've never felt, smelt or heard the clutch doing anything naughty at all ... it's perfectly adjusted and feels like a brand new bike in my opinion, never once slipped

just FYI, I'm very gentle on my bikes - almost to the point of being anal about it ... this doesn't mean that I don't enjoy them as much as someone that's riding it like they stole it (if I stole a bike I'd probably baby that too), that's just how I am ... hard to say if that has anything to do with the longevity of parts on my vehicles, I'd say that my vehicles need less unscheduled maintenance than average for sure, but being gentle with a vehicle definitely doesn't mean that they will last forever

[MattKas]

I was just talking to Kari Prager, the owner of Cal BMW and Tri-Valley BMW at Beemer Bash in Quincy, CA: He believes that the riders who ride smoothly (more constant, smoother speed than sudden accerelation and sudden decelaration) are in general having less Clutch and Rear Drive problems (or any problems).
I believe him because he seems to be heavily involved in daily motorcycle operations. He also indicated that pulling trailers and side cars put more burden on the bikes which is I think no brainer.

2000 LTC ... now has 103,000 miles on it, original clutch and I've never felt, smelt or heard the clutch doing anything naughty at all ... it's perfectly adjusted and feels like a brand new bike in my opinion, never once slipped

just FYI, I'm very gentle on my bikes - almost to the point of being anal about it ... this doesn't mean that I don't enjoy them as much as someone that's riding it like they stole it (if I stole a bike I'd probably baby that too), that's just how I am ... hard to say if that has anything to do with the longevity of parts on my vehicles, I'd say that my vehicles need less unscheduled maintenance than average for sure, but being gentle with a vehicle definitely doesn't mean that they will last forever