VFR to LT in one day. Crazy?

[brettcoon]

I've been riding for almost 20 years. I currently ride a Honda VFR800, which is the largest bike I've ridden.

On Tuesday, I'm planning to rent a BMW K1200LT from the local San Jose BMW dealer for a daytrip with my wife. She's not a fan of my VFR or my prior FZ750, due to their rather spartan passenger accommodations, so I wanted to go to the other extreme and get her to try out the most comfortable bike I could find. The goal is to convince her that motorcycles can be comfortable.

My plan is to pick up the bike in the morning, and then do a big loop from San Jose, through the Santa Cruz mountains to the coast, and back again. 150 miles may be pushing my luck with a potentially unenthusiastic passenger, but that's a question for a different thread. :)

As I was doing trip planning this afternoon, I stumbled upon the forums here, where I read some of the FAQ entries for things like slow speed handling, getting on the bike, picking it up if it falls, etc.

Now I'm a bit spooked. I've been riding a long time, so I suspect some of the "boy, it sure falls over easily" stories are due to some amount of inexperience that won't entirely apply to me. Still, I'd love to hear from anyone who has experience riding both a "big" BMW such as the LT, and a less big (but not small) bike like the VFR. Is it really so hard to keep the LT upright? Clearly the LT is a lot of motorcycle, especially with a passenger on the back, but for a leisurely cruise I wasn't expecting this to present too many problems. Is that naive?

For what it's worth, I'm 6' and 200 lbs, so I shouldn't have any difficulty planting my feet firmly on the ground and exerting some restoring force to correct stopsign leans...

-Brett

[SLTex]

I am 6 foot 205 and you shouldn't have a problem if you keep it straight at stops. If not, the weight distribution from front to back after the stop will put her to sleep before you know it and your passenger won't be impressed.

Have a good test drive.

[hifiman]

Im 6' 185lbs and no drops YET on my LT.(Knocking on wood) My last bike R1200CLC once and before that my HD Fatboy once. Both because I wasnt paying attention to what I was doing. Just pay attention and have fun. Get use to the braking system and as you have read, keep the front wheel straight when coming to a stop. If I were you, after picking it up, find a nice parking lot and just get the feel of it. After your ride, look in the classifieds or at the local BMW dealer as you probably will want one of your own.

[dshealey]

As others have said, just be aware that using the front brake that last couple feet of a stop with the wheel turned any at all to one side is the best recipe of all for letting the big lady lay down. If the wheel is straight ahead you will not notice anything unusual at all. Avoid slow speed U turns if you can though. That can be a little worrisome until you have a lot of time on the bike.

There is nothing to be afraid of beyond that, and you should really like the bike. Not quite as sporty as your VFR, but I think you will be surprised just how well this big bike handles.

[MikeERideWNC]

Trust me the LT can do almost everything a VFR can do!

And it has way more farkles.
Sometimes I wish my VFR was more like the LT, and vice versa.

If you are already comfortable on the VFR then the LT is not a big change.

Now going from the LT to the 848... That takes some getting used to.

[KMC1]

The LT is a handful, watch the camber of the surface where you'll be placing your feet, and for God's sake, don't wear boots that have no grip on the bottom! :p Seriously though you need to watch it, if there is sand/gravel and you put your foot down on a grade, it'll go over fairly easily.
Other than that, you'll be really pleased with the LT once you're over 5mph and if it doesn't break down on you while on the test ride, WATCH OUT cause there's a LOT of us on here because our SO's LOVE the couch-like seat - and don't forget she can turn the heated seat/backrest on if she gets a little chill :D
After the 150 miles, you'll be wishing for another 100....

Also, before you buy, check the classifieds, these things don't hold their resale value for squat and also check into the costs of maintainance if you don't like to do your own - they ain't cheap to own.....

Good luck with the ride and let us know what you think!

[BecketMa]

I know what a VFO is; stumped on VFR.

Just make sure you know where the starter button is, and that you go around the block solo before packing your wife.

Bob

[Ted]

Two more suggestions - keep your feet on the pegs as long as you can - ideally until you stop. The LT is too heavy and too much girth to stop w/ your feet! As the others have said, keep the front wheel straight, make sure you are stopping on level ground, watch for gravel, etc. Just do everything a little slower than you are used to on the VFR.

Also, I'd take a short solo ride first just to get used to her. If you have been riding 20+ years you'll be fine, you just have to pay more attention w/ the slow-speed stuff.

Trust your balance - you'll be amazed just how slow the LT can be ridden before you put your feet down.

[WildBil]

Have fun on the ride. The suggestions from the group here are, as usual, right on. The LT is a great ride.

One more thing should be said. Like any big bike, the LT can be a handful and at 0-4 mph, you have to be careful of any liter + machine. But if it does go down, that black rubber wing beside the engine and the strips around the luggage will hold 845 lbs. of bike and 400 lbs. of you and yours. It may not look like it, but the BMW engineers designed the supports well.

VFR to LT in one day? Not crazy at all! Enjoy.

Bill. :bmw:

[WildBil]

And another thing. BMW's transmission is a bit different that Honda's or most others. Much more like an automotive transmission. First gear likes to have you spin the gear. You don't need to engage the clutch all the way, and the LT transmission shifts best with quick and fluid shifts as you ease off the throttle without fully engaging the clutch.

[Ghost55]

The LT is a heavy, and top heavy bike. Experience on other bikes, and in particular light bikes is of minimal relevance. An HD Electra Glide is like riding a toy after coming off an LT. It's a great bike, but different. Best advice above is ride it solo a while before trying a passenger.

[eaglemike]

I have a '98 VFR800, so I can relate. I'd pay heed to the comments above about slow speed handling, and stopping. Adding the passenger will raise the CG a bit more, but won' (IMHO) affect the handling once you're moving.

I'd add that passengers reaaalllly like the accommodations on the LT. Very good legroom, and not cramped up against the pilot.

Look ahead when stopping, and low speed - don't look down...... :)

all the best,

Mike

[dkbright]

I have owned a 2001 Honda Shadow 750, a 2007 HD Roadking and a 1999 K1200LT. If you know the basics of riding a motorcycle, all in all they are not that much different to ride. Things are a bit different when you are riding two up. A couple of things to remember when making a slow speed maneuver on any motorcycle is to control speed in a slow speed turn you want to utilize clutch and throttle. Feather the clutch instead of using brake. Use as little brakes as possible. Find the friction zone of the clutch and hang there throughout the turn. If you get into a situation where you have to slow yourself down, use the rear brake only. Look where you want to go and keep your head up. If you look down you are going to go down. If you see a curb that you dont want to hit, if you look at it, you will hit it. Know where the curb is and look where you want to go. If you mash the rear brake in a slow speed turn, you will stand straight up. If you mash the front brake in a turn, you will find yourself attempting to pick you bike up off of the ground. If you are comfortable and confident on a smaller bike, you can be comfortable and confident on a larger bike.

In regards to your SO's comfort level, my wife hated riding on the Shadow. I was lucky to get 30 miles before she was complaining about her back and backside hurting. We have taken several longer trips on the LT and she is hungry for more. (She has even made a list of places she wants to go).

When coming to a stop, if you feel yourself falling to one side, put a little steering input towards that direction. This will keep the bike under your body. If you normally put your left foot down and you start to fall to the right, put a little right steering input it. Takes some practice, but eventually you will be able to sit at nearly a stand still without putting any feet on the ground.

In short, in a slow speed maneuver, use as little brake as possible. If necessary, use rear brake only. Be confident and you will do fine. Maybe purchase the extra insurance from the rental company and do some practicing. If you drop it, pick it up and try again. (no matter how big the bike, with the proper technique, one person can lift the bike upright.) You can't practice enough. Hope this helps.

[lstinthot]

I have been riding for many years myself and just bought my first LT this past weekend. I have been riding smaller bikes as well and today I found out that this bike does not have the groung clearance as a sport bike. I was taking a turn at a reasonable speed and next thing I know I hear some scrapping noise. It did not affect my turn just got my attention that I am no longer on those corner loving sport bikes.

I love this bike, it just needs to go slower through the corners.

As far as the slow manuevering, I agree with using the back brake. I was coming home from Minneapolis this weekend and got cought in the heavy rains. I was taking a corner between 5- 10mph and next thing I know the rear wheel was sliding. If I was on the front break I would have been picking the bike up. It was just a little scare, I was only 200 miles into on my first LT.

So far the bike is great, I have had it 1 1/2 days and have 450 miles and counting. My kids keep asking for rides so I must keep them happy. :)

Good luck on your ride I think you will love it.

[WildBil]

Istinthot, I find that riding one up, as long as the tires are inflated properly and the suspension preload (located under your seat) is set correctly, its pretty hard to scrape bottom on the LT unless I really, really overdue the leaning. Not that hard two up.

But with the tires just a bit low, its not hard at all to scrape the bottm. IMMV. But be sure you have the front and rear pressure set to the specs you will find inside the left luggage cover.

If you are new to the LT, you might want to look around BMW sites. Space is tight on the rear wheel especially. Several sites have a right angle brass extension for the valve stem to make it easier to check the pressure if you do not have a gauge with an angled nozzle, and to make it possible to fill up from the ever increasing number of pay air pumps with straight nozzles.

Bill :bmw:

[brettcoon]

Thanks for all the helpful responses! Sounds like the key points are:

Keep the front wheel straight when stopping
Try it solo before adding a passenger
Never stop with the front wheel turned
Feather the clutch at low speeds rather than riding the front brake
When stopping, straighten the front wheel.
Relax, take it easy, and have fun.
Avoid turning and stopping at the same time. :D


I'll definitely make an effort to do my stopping in a straight line. I'm still a little perplexed about why this is such an issue for the LT, but this is definitely the kind of helpful hint that's better to learn from others than from personal experience.

I'll be renting the LT in the morning and riding it home solo to pick up my wife, so I'll have some quality time to get a feel for it before adding a passenger. And I've never been much of a peg-scraper on my VFR, so I doubt I'll have problems with ground clearance. Also, since a key objective of this trip is to have my wife enjoy motorcycling for a change, I'll be making a point of riding as smoothly as possible to minimize complaint.

I'll try to post an update after the ride with my thoughts on the experience.

Thanks again for the tremendous response to my inquiry. This board is great!

-Brett

[wildwestrider]

Brett,

I sold my 2002 VFR (didnt like the VTEC) when I found a showroom new 95 VFR...Loved it especially after I gutted the exhaust....sold it after about 2 years and bought 2000 K1200LT which I am enjoying quite a bit,....

My ABS servo is out,...so have no ABS and yes,....I have lost the front end (and recovered) twice when front braking hard with only a little bit of steering .....both times....unexpected cross traffic when exiting a turn....hit the front brakes....front end locked up and began to skid out....released the brake,...got around the incident and rode on. Probably would not have happened if my ABS was working or,...if I used a little rear brake.

Brian in Austin

[dshealey]

Thanks for all the helpful responses! Sounds like the key points are:
Keep the front wheel straight when stopping
Try it solo before adding a passenger
Never stop with the front wheel turned
Feather the clutch at low speeds rather than riding the front brake
When stopping, straighten the front wheel.
Relax, take it easy, and have fun.
Avoid turning and stopping at the same time. :D By cracky, I think he has got it! :rotf:

I'll definitely make an effort to do my stopping in a straight line. I'm still a little perplexed about why this is such an issue for the LT, but this is definitely the kind of helpful hint that's better to learn from others than from personal experience. It is all physics and the laws of energy. Most other bikes use up a lot of stopping energy in compression of the front forks. The Telelever suspension of the LT uses NONE, since the forks do not dive at all when stopping. All that energy that would be used in other bikes has to go somewhere, and most of it is used in additional brake heating, but if you have the wheel turned at all, there is a pronounced force trying to rotate all that force around the front axle, and if it is turned to one side, a considerable overturning force to that side can result.

I'll be renting the LT in the morning and riding it home solo to pick up my wife, so I'll have some quality time to get a feel for it before adding a passenger. And I've never been much of a peg-scraper on my VFR, so I doubt I'll have problems with ground clearance. Also, since a key objective of this trip is to have my wife enjoy motorcycling for a change, I'll be making a point of riding as smoothly as possible to minimize complaint.

I'll try to post an update after the ride with my thoughts on the experience.

Thanks again for the tremendous response to my inquiry. This board is great!

-BrettMe thinks you will come back here with a smile.:)

[socalcruiser]

Brett, just haul ass. The LT was designed for two-up in comfort. Forget about anything else cept what is natural for you. The LT is a design of perfection. You and her will be equally amazed at this bike. You should just ride the hell out of her keepin the R's high and she should just enjoy the bikes perfect and amazing engineering which makes her the most comfortable than on any other. Just remember, if you're on a LT you're on the shit. It doesn't get any better than this. Her riding experience will only be highlighted by your skills.

[brettcoon]

I returned the K1200LT this morning, and I'm happy to report it was no worse for wear than when I picked it up, other than the extra 180 miles on the odometer.

The ride was a great success. My wife, who has traditionally been a harsh critic of motorcycle seats, reports that the LT completely solved that issue. She was particularly enthusiastic about the seat warmer, which apparently came in handy when things got a bit chilly in the mountains. I never actually tried the heated seats or grips myself, since I was wearing my one-piece Aerostitch plus heavier gloves, so if anything my problem was staying cool enough.

In fact, the comfort of the ride surprised me as well. I usually find butt-burn starts after an hour or so, but even after 4+ hours on the LT, I easily could have ridden more. Actually, I did ride more, because both of my kids wanted a ride after my wife and I got home.

My ride took me through a fair number of twisties, including the high speed turns and bumps of Highway 17 from Santa Cruz to San Jose. The LT handled itself well throughout, doing a good job of hiding its significant heft, and only scraping metal bits once. As others had warned, about the only time the size of the bike is much of an issue is at low speeds, where you have to operate it more deliberately than with a smaller bike. But I had no significant troubles walking it backwards from parking spots, making u-turns, and negotiating driveways and parking lots. I even split lanes a bit on the ride home, due it it being 5:50pm and my kid needing to be picked up by 6pm, while I'm five miles away in rush hour traffic.

Probably my biggest surprise was when I got back on my VFR this morning after returning the LT. Wow, I can't believe how much smaller my VFR got overnight, or how much higher the footpegs moved...

So, a brief summary of my favorite LT attributes:

Really comfortable. Using an LT for long rides almost seems like cheating now, since there's no pain involved. Where's the challenge in that? :D
Handles well for such a big bike. Twisty roads were no problem.
The engine seems to pull without complaint at just about any RPM.
I love having hardbags. It's wonderful being able to lock up my gear when stopping for lunch, rather than having to lug everything around with me.


And some of my less favorite LT attributes:

The transmission was pretty rough. It usually clunked into gear, and seemed to have a lot of unlabeled neutrals. Getting from N into 1st usually required me to shift, partially engage the clutch, then step on the shifter a second time. I'm not sure how much of this is BMW and how much is due to this being a rental bike.
While the engine provided a nice flat powerband, this also meant it didn't have any RPM range where it really took off. I guess a powerband with no valleys implies no peaks. So it felt somewhat sluggish at higher RPMs, where I'm used to my VFR really starting to scream.
Though the bike felt stable and confident in turns, it did "wallow" a bit. Not sure if this was improper suspension adjustment, frame flex, or just unwanted driver input due to the long reach of the handlebars.


Bottom line, fun was had by all. While I'm not yet ready to trade in my VFR (and my garage isn't big enough for two bikes), I wouldn't be surprised if that happens someday. The LT is currently the only wife-approved bike in the world, which is no small feat.

Thanks again to everyone who offered encouragement and words of advice.

-Brett

[dmatson]

A pairs of Ohlins do wonders for the bike, no wallowing ever! The LT loves to be ridden at 3K all the way to 8K, you should have noticed a big difference in power above 5K. First gear is very high the LT will pull just over 60mph in first thats why it feels sluggish taking off in first. The trans will shift much better with it in the higher RPM's also. The reason for the stopping in a straight line advice is because of the type of suppension, the forks don't dive when you hit the brakes and throw the weight that way but it is also why you can brake in the middle of a turn and the bike stays on line, no fork dive. It takes a while to get really used to an LT then you don't want to get off it.

[rmg08057]

Brett

If you want to see what the LT will do after you have had it a short while, I'd be happy to go for a chase with you on your VFR (I love the VFR). While it's not as fast thru the corners as the VFR, it is surprisingly good and best of all, you can take it to virtually the same limit 2-up as you do 1-up.

If you want to chat LT's I am up the road in Mountain View.