MSF Rider Coach advice

[K-daug]

I need the advice of some of you veteran instructors that have ridden the LT. I breezed thru the BRC last summer as a refresher before purchasing my new LT. Now I'm signed up for an Experienced Rider Course in April in which I 'll be riding my new LT...my new LT which I've somehow managed not to drop! My question is, how likely will it be that I will drop my new bike during this course? And should I really be that concerned about that? It's really all about improving my skills right? Am I foolish for riding this bike to an ERC?

[wacolt]

During limited space maneuvers, counterweight, turn your head, use the friction zone, and, to stabilize the suspension, you might drag the rear brake. Won't be a problem.

But then, you learned that in the BRC. The ERC is a shorter course with a few different exercises.

You'll do fine.

[gglove]

Kevin I would recommend Ride like a Pro dvd. You can review the exercises and then practice them, once the weather in the midwest improves. You may not need to complete the class after completing and practicing the DVD. If you do take the class I am sure you would pass it with flying colors.

[bigbear]

LT & ERC
took my LT through the ERC course last year and surprised a lot of people on how well it handles. Like Wacolt stated, counterweight and look through the corners. Be VERY careful trying to use the rear brake at slow speeds. These brakes are linked and if the front brakes apply while doing slow maneuvers the results may not be pleasant.

Main thing relax and enjoy.

NOTE: Make sure your Top Box is latched. If not during the braking exercises it flies open!!

Roy

[cfell]

As a low to average skill rider myself, I'd say you'll do fine. The instructor said.. "I can't believe something THAT size can be THAT nimble. Sure glad you didn't drop one, it will take days to get a crane out here."

There is another advantage...you'll be able to hear the instructor with the motors running... as long as no "American Iron" shows up for the class.

Sure, these comments don't reflect an answer, but give you some insight into what this machine is truly capable of.... in YOUR hands...

First you have to realize that the ERC is not a "pass-fail".. you are there to IMPROVE skills. None of the exercises are "non-LT" capable.. they won't ask you to park an LT in the shadow of a mini-bike. Also, there are no "hard barriers". If you can't make a turn, just "exit" gracefully.

The hardest exercise is turning within a box.... the LT is good at this .. here's how I learned... I use a steady throttle while slipping the clutch, then control speed using rear brake... now, don't worry about "slipping" the LT clutch.. it is very durable... as long as you do not keep a high rpm and slip.... just keep the LT around 1800-2000 rpm.. fast enough to "pull" the LT....

Have fun... if you won't have fun, don't go.

[rando]

I ride my LT thru the exercises regularly during lunch when we're doing BRCs. The U-turn box is the hardest. As others said, counterweight that sucker and look thru the turns. DO NOT look at ground. Bike goes where you look, lol. Don;t worry about the lines so much as trying to get the hang of turning the bars and counterweighting, letting the bike lean at slow speeds. Take all you fingers off that front brake. Be EASY on that rear. Work on developing your technique.

All other exercises are pretty fun and easy on the LT. You are there to learn to be better on the LT, so use that. Unfortunately, we can't confiscate your bike if you do badly.... I'm trying to get that changed. lol

Good luck and above all - HAVE FUN with it!
Randy

[dandiver]

During limited space maneuvers, counterweight, turn your head, use the friction zone, and, to stabilize the suspension, you might drag the rear brake. Won't be a problem.

But then, you learned that in the BRC. The ERC is a shorter course with a few different exercises.

You'll do fine.

If the front and back are linked, how do you just drag the back? Won't the front also engage?

[rando]

In my experience, I just use the rear brake pedal LIGHTLY. To help modulate speed. From what I've read on here, light use of rear doesn't trigger the front. YMMV

Randy

[dandiver]

thanks, I was sort of figuring that, but appreciate the clarification...

[UncleMark]

Now I'm signed up for an Experienced Rider Course in April in which I 'll be riding my new LT...my new LT which I've somehow managed not to drop! My question is, how likely will it be that I will drop my new bike during this course? And should I really be that concerned about that? It's really all about improving my skills right? Am I foolish for riding this bike to an ERC?
Foolish? Nope... I did the ERC two-up... Now that was a thrill. In fact, there were three LT's in the class. We all made it thru with no problems. Granted, I did a little impromptu pre-training before the class. It helped.

Like everyone here has stated, counterweight and look where you want to go.

[jdunique]

The linked brake system is proportioned, when using the rear brake you get something like 60% of the braking on the rear wheel and maybe 40% front so when you engage the brakes from the rear pedal lightly it does not upset your manuevers. The aforementioned "Ride Like a Pro" video will teach you a lot just start by doing the outer circles and the wider turns until you get a little more confidence and then ease into the sharper manuevers you will be surprised what you can do with the LT. I have utilized these principles for years and for me the hardest maneuver to conquer was a full lock turn from a standstill but once you manage to do it once it becomes easier each time.

Good luck!

[K-daug]

Thanks to all of you for some great advice! I do have the "Ride Like a Pro IV" video and have watched it several times...excellent resource material. I'm ready to start my parking lot practice, that is as soon as the ice melts.

NO FEAR>

[cfell]

Certified BMW mechanic told me... 'below 5 mph the "linked" brakes disengage.." so far, my experience confirms that... and definitely "proportional" with speed.

[hip001]

what does counterweight mean on the LT? Example please .....

[cfell]

bike leans left, you , the rider, position your weight to the "outside" as a "counterbalance".. this allows a greater "lean" of the bike at low speed and a "tighter" turn.

[mrbiker]

I'm ready to start my parking lot practice, that is as soon as the ice melts.What is "ice?" What do you use to melt it?

http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/big2_both_cond/language/www/US/CA/Los_Angeles.gif

OHHHHHhhhhhh... Now I remember. That's the little clear things they put in drinks to keep them cold...

What does that have to do with riding your motorcycle?

[Ranger]

what does counterweight mean on the LT? Example please .....

I'll try to describe an example using a left-hand turn. As you initiate the turn you will have the front wheel turned to the left. Your left hand and foot are on the inside. As the vehicle leans to the left, into the turn, it is getting closer to the ground. If you lean to the inside you will accelerate this.

Shift your weight to the right side of the seat and add more pressure from your right foot into the right footpeg. This will shift weight to the outside of the vehicle and move the center of gravity away from the fall.

An exaggerated example would be to lift your left foot off the peg, raise your body off the seat, and have all of your weight in the right foot peg as you complete the turn.

The bottom line is that you are trying to shift your weight to the outside of the turn when you "counterweight."

Hope this makes sense.

By the way, I've taken my LT through the ERC maybe 4 times. I enjoy the course and appreciate the opportunity to have an instructor look at my technique and remind me of a few things. It's a great refresher. And, no, the LT isn't inappropriate for the ERC.

[hip001]

thank you for that explanation, It was a great example.

[NOGILLS2]

What is "ice?" What do you use to melt it?

http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/big2_both_cond/language/www/US/CA/Los_Angeles.gif

OHHHHHhhhhhh... Now I remember. That's the little clear things they put in drinks to keep them cold...

What does that have to do with riding your motorcycle?


UHHHH I use salt on the ICE, That makes the beer get colder, faster. Also works to cool off the watermelon. Place melon in ice chest, add ice, pour salt over ice= cold melon about 30 minutes!!! OH MAN I am ready for both, but it'll be a few weeks till I can have either!!!

[motorman587]

I need the advice of some of you veteran instructors that have ridden the LT. I breezed thru the BRC last summer as a refresher before purchasing my new LT. Now I'm signed up for an Experienced Rider Course in April in which I 'll be riding my new LT...my new LT which I've somehow managed not to drop! My question is, how likely will it be that I will drop my new bike during this course? And should I really be that concerned about that? It's really all about improving my skills right? Am I foolish for riding this bike to an ERC?


Remember this. "Turn you head", the bikes goes where the nose goes.!!!!!! We can talk technique all day, but I have found that most motor cops can have the best skills, but if you do not turn that head, your technique is out the window.

[jzeiler]

Certified BMW mechanic told me... 'below 5 mph the "linked" brakes disengage.." so far, my experience confirms that... and definitely "proportional" with speed.

Not quite true Deacon.

You can verify that on the centerstand after the roll off test is completed. It is proportional by pressure to just the rear regardless of speed. My rear only squeaks when I use rear brake to come to the final stop but doesn't when I use front only for the final stop. But anything beyond light pressure will bring on both brakes even below 5 MPH.

[bulletbill]

Remember this. "Turn you head", the bikes goes where the nose goes.!!!!!! We can talk technique all day, but I have found that most motor cops can have the best skills, but if you do not turn that head, your technique is out the window.

Did you'll catch "the bike goes where the nose goes!" You can crank you eyes around with out making a real "HEAD TURN" I talk to my student about pointing their chin (nose would works)..

I see the ERC as an opportunity to Identify our limitation on our motorcycle regardless what you ride. Then we can practice to become better riders.

[wacolt]

If the front and back are linked, how do you just drag the back? Won't the front also engage?

I have a '99; they are not linked.

Kevin I would recommend Ride like a Pro dvd. You can review the exercises and then practice them, once the weather in the midwest improves. You may not need to complete the class after completing and practicing the DVD. If you do take the class I am sure you would pass it with flying colors.

Thanks for mentioning the DVD; I paid my $34.95 tonight.

I prefer continuous improvement rather than status quo; I ordered the DVD to get another point of view and also to provide some thought provoking discussion during the breaks.

Regards,
Curt

[gglove]

I am sure you will find the DVD very helpful.
Good luck
I have a '99; they are not linked.



Thanks for mentioning the DVD; I paid my $34.95 tonight.

I prefer continuous improvement rather than status quo; I ordered the DVD to get another point of view and also to provide some thought provoking discussion during the breaks.

Regards,
Curt

[bobbobtar]

I have also taken my LT through the ERC course. The important thing that I learned was the big LT does not like slow speeds ,you have make sure that you do not let the speed drop off below 5 or 6 mph.

[K-daug]

I am sure you will find the DVD very helpful.
Good luck

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, the DVD really bought the message home for me. Worth every penny. I think I'm in luv with Mary Ann...sorry Tim.

[K-daug]

Remember this. "Turn you head", the bikes goes where the nose goes.!!!!!! We can talk technique all day, but I have found that most motor cops can have the best skills, but if you do not turn that head, your technique is out the window.

You nailed it! That's my biggest challenge, I can do the tech...but the trust factor with the head and eyes is something I still struggle with.

Thanks for your insiteful comment.

[jroadhouse]

K-daug - Where is the ERC course you'll be taking in April? And thanks for initiating this thread - and to everyone for your good contributions - most helpful!

John
Waiting for the thaw in Chicago!

[K-daug]

K-daug - Where is the ERC course you'll be taking in April? And thanks for initiating this thread - and to everyone for your good contributions - most helpful!

John
Waiting for the thaw in Chicago!

Bloomington, IN - April 19th

PM sent.

[K-daug]

And for anyone else who would care to join us, there are still 10 slots open.

I'm signed up at the Bloomington Harley Dealership for April 19th. There are a great group of guys there, it's all about riding the best you possibly can, not at all exclusive to Harley's and the HD culture. They call it the Skilled Riders Course, it's a smaller class than the Abate group and much more personal attention. I'm really looking forward to it. Let me know if you might be riding down to participate, we can meet for coffee and ride in together.

Kevin

http://www.indianaharley.com/course...p?courseid=1807 (http://www.indianaharley.com/course_detail.asp?courseid=1807)

[wacolt]

Asked Ride Like a Pro if they would offer a discount for MSF RiderCoach and included my number in the directions block; received $5.00 discount in my PayPal account.

By the way, the DFW RiderCoach group is distributing the following link. If you are a RiderCoach, you have earned the discount eligibility.

MSF RC Discounts (http://www.shadowriders.org/msf_discounts/)

Ride safe,
Curt

[tiredtire]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, the DVD really bought the message home for me. Worth every penny. I think I'm in luv with Mary Ann...sorry Tim.

People should check with their local library and see if they have a copy of the Ride Like A Pro series or will order a set. My wife is a librarian and they are always looking for things to order that will serve the people who use and support the library. Her library got the videos and within a week there were over 45 "holds" placed on them. Libraries like that.

End of commercial message....

Now... I have been practicing the Ride Like A Pro techniques in a local parking lot. How much slipping can the clutch stand. I was just having a ball doing figure eights and weaving around the parking stalls but started to worry about the strain on the clutch. Mine is a 99 so linked breaks are not an issue.

[NascaLT]

Like in most training situations, if you do what they TELL YOU to do, it will work. I took the experienced rider course earlier this year on a misty rainy day and I ruined my boots ..... I wore holes in them by dragging my boards in the tight turns and didn't get my feet up high enough. The boards took a beating, too. The old girl will lean waaaaay over, confidently and safely, at a pretty low speed if you have the confidence to do exactly what the coaches tell you to do. Yes, the LT does have limitations but my skills will exhaust long before the LT is beyond its performance envelope, including low speed handling. Hint: (keep a little power on).

[rando]

Good point. THe LT will do it IF the rider has the confidence in themselves and teh proper technique. I am a rider coach and am easily able to accomplish the technique. BUT I do not have the confidence in myself to lean er over that far in "the box". I can do the 28' box easily - the large one in the ERC. I can do the 24' U turn 95% of the time. BUT I have managed the 20' U turn ( the smallest one that the BRC bikes use) only a couple of times. Fellow coaches can, but I can't yet. So far, no regular factory has been made that can't. It's all up to the rider and the rider's confidence.

So do what you can, practice it and get better and more comfortable. That tight U turn never really gets comfortable in my experience. Don;t let yourself get into a situation that you can't get out of.

Randy

[Smith]

Hi Kevin,

One thing that helps me that I didn't see mentioned here is this - I slide forward on the seat, like I'm trying to put more weight on the front wheel and get closer to the bars. For some reason this is a big help although I can't say why.

Smith
'05 Dark Graphite
Greensboro, NC

[K-daug]

Hi Kevin,

One thing that helps me that I didn't see mentioned here is this - I slide forward on the seat, like I'm trying to put more weight on the front wheel and get closer to the bars. For some reason this is a big help although I can't say why.

Smith
'05 Dark Graphite
Greensboro, NC

Thanks, I'll try that.... My ERC was a couple of weeks ago, rained all day but it was still a great experience. The LT performed like a champion, both rider coaches remarked how amazingly smooth and graceful the bike appeared. (all the other bikes were HD) We all passed easily, though I still had trouble in "the box", grabbed too much clutch and down she went! No big deal really...minor scuffing and managed to get it right the next time.

I now have 3000 miles on "Shamu" and she seems ot be losin' weight every day.