You guys are scaring me !

[dnifong]

OK, I joined this board trying to decide if wanted to sell my GL1800 to buy a LT. My friend has an 02 for 8500 bucks. What the heck is all these rear failure posts. How can I tell if this bike is about to fail? Does the tire really lock up? The mother of my children will be on the back :mad: . Does the weight of the rider/riders have an impact on failure?
trying to decide, Dale

[gglove]

Dale welcome to the site. I read the same information that you read about the FD failures with some concern. I just feel that deal with it as it come if it ever does. Weigh the pros and cons and then make a informed decision. I personally like the LT so much more then the GW.

[motorman587]

Where did you see that that rear will lock up???? I understand about FD failure, but it is rare. Very rare. I took my 99 for 12060 mile ride to Alaska n and back last year in June. I would do it again. I would do it with the Mrs on the back. Honda is great motorcycle too, but it is what "You" want to ride. No web site is going to change that. Half will say this and half say that. I will be up to you.l

[02lt]

I have an '02 LT with 58,000 miles on it and I have never had any final drive problems. I change and check the final drive fluid at each oil change, so far no problems.

[MattKas]

The reasons why I did not want a GL was:
1: not as good as heat management of LT (I am in Arizona)
2: no electric screen
3: not as good gas mileage as LT

Other than that GL is not a bad bike at all. In my opinion better than both Victory Vision and Harley Electra Glide.




OK, I joined this board trying to decide if wanted to sell my GL1800 to buy a LT. My friend has an 02 for 8500 bucks. What the heck is all these rear failure posts. How can I tell if this bike is about to fail? Does the tire really lock up? The mother of my children will be on the back :mad: . Does the weight of the rider/riders have an impact on failure?
trying to decide, Dale

[dnifong]

OK, Thanks for the intelligent unbiased feedback. We plan to ride it 2 up this weekend. We will ride the wing over to get the the LT. So the weather conditions will be the same. We plan to ride it for an hour or so. I'll let you know the results.

Will our GW helment cords work?

Can I pull the plug to inspect the rear diff oil without loosing all of the oil?

[ironbuttwannabe]

OK, Can I pull the plug to inspect the rear diff oil without loosing all of the oil?
You could ride it for the hour or so and drain the oil. Buy a quart of whatever he was using before and a couple of crush washers to refill. If there is anything abnormal about the oil that will give you a heads up.

Chunks of metal is not good. :)

[messenger13]

"Does the tire really lock up?" :rotf: Mine failed on my '06 GT shortly after doing 130mph for quite a spell. No, I can attest that the tire does NOT lock up.

I'll be heading back across the country at the end of April. I ain't "scared" neither... ;)

[KIC]

Originally Posted by Ted
yes - IIRC the change to the 17-ball occurred in May 2002, and IIRC there have been less than 5 reported LT failures (on this site) on bikes with build dates after May/2002.

This was posted on an earlier thread regarding the FD failures. Check the build date under the seat and if it it after 5/02 you have better odds.

Before the Final Drive fear drive here, the big worry was hitting a Sasquatch on a dark and lonely road. :eek:

I took a sharpie and changed the build date on my bike to June of 2002. So I will no longer will worry about my FD. :D

[dshealey]

Out of all the final drive failures talked about here over the years, I do not remember ever hearing of one locking up. They just start making noise, maybe a little wiggle if ridden very far after the bearing fails, and then oil starts coming out. Nearly all have gotton off the road before the oil became a problem because of the noise more than the feel. Usually when you are sitting by the road, the oil begins to dribble out. That is what happened to me. At first I did not know what had happened, thought it was a tire problem when it started, quickly got to the side of the road and started looking for the noise. After a few minutes my wife asked "Is that oil dripping on the ground?". I looked at that and then knew what had happened.

[c00k1e]

When you are out on the ride, stop and pop it up on the center stand. Grasp the rear wheel at 1400hrs and 2000hrs, try to get the wheel to move sideways. Push with one hand pull with the other, reverse procedure.
If no wobble, cluncking or notches when slowly revolving wheel, all is well.
Also ask about an extended warrentee.
I have had FD problems, but they pale into insignificance when you get used to the amazing ride this bike gives you.

[Jerrym]

OK, I joined this board trying to decide if wanted to sell my GL1800 to buy a LT. My friend has an 02 for 8500 bucks. What the heck is all these rear failure posts. How can I tell if this bike is about to fail? Does the tire really lock up? The mother of my children will be on the back :mad: . Does the weight of the rider/riders have an impact on failure?
trying to decide, Dale

After reading all these suggestions of everything to do and look for would scare any prospective buyer away. The LT is one of the greatest riding bikes on the market. My advice to you is if you really like and want an LT buy it and do not read anything on this board about FD failures. This is a great board if you need help on some problem. If you do not have any problems don’t ask for one. There is a lot more LT’s that do not have problems than there is with problems. I had one with no problems and one with all kinds of problems. If you get one be sure it has extended warranty and service it and ride it. You will probably have no problems. This board is what scared me a way from BMW to a Goldwing but I would prefer an LT.

[jhsonderb]

OK, I joined this board trying to decide if wanted to sell my GL1800 to buy a LT. My friend has an 02 for 8500 bucks. What the heck is all these rear failure posts. How can I tell if this bike is about to fail? Does the tire really lock up? The mother of my children will be on the back :mad: . Does the weight of the rider/riders have an impact on failure? trying to decide, DaleI was more fearful of the frame weld break issue on GL1800 Goldwings than the LT rear drive failure.

[glinm74]

"Does the tire really lock up?" Mine did. And slid to a stop in traffic. But then again, mine wasn't a typical FD failure, as it occurred at 227 miles on an 05 LT. This was one of the first 05's my dealer had sold and had the "factory sealed" never check, never change unit. The dealer folowed the set up instructions and did not open the FD. It would have been SO much better if the folks in Germany had remembered to put oil into it before sealing it.

[Jerrym]

I was more fearful of the frame weld break issue on GL1800 Goldwings than the LT rear drive failure.

There has never been any problem getting a frame breakage taken care of on a Goldwing. It was only in the 2003 and early 2004 and Honda took care of everyone. Not one person was ever been stranded on the road. They would fine a crack in the frame and weld it or if it was bad replace the frame. Do you think BMW would do that. You hear more about frame breakage on GW on this board than you do on the GL1800 board. If there is any problems with Goldwing Honda takes care of them. Sorry

[dlbushey]

This board is one of, if not THE best resources for owning and operating the BMW LT. The motorcycle being a mechanical device, will eventually have an issue or two. I have never owned a single vehicle (car, truck, motorcycle, snowmobile, or lawnmower) that didn't have a problem at one time or another.

With that being said, you have to realize that a whole lot of the posts on just about all vehicle specific forums will be about problems or issues with the machine. People are looking for advice about what ails them, or they are venting their frustration.

Bottom line is that there are many more people who have never had a final drive failure than there are who have. Now, I'm not defending BMW here. I do agree that the company should step up and make this issue right. But like so many others have said before me...

Just ride it! That's what I do. Of course, I never leave home without my Road Side Assistance plan and my credit card!

[412driver]

that is the downside of the Internet..... if you would go and buy the bike the only concern in your mind is: "why the H#LL did i not buy one sooner"!!! :cool:

you want to hear horror stories? go visit HDForums.com

i really wanted an Ultra but within the 1st hour of riding my new LT i leaned back and said: "Baby, i am SOOOO glad we bought the BMW"!

i am around 10K (i bought it late in the season :( ) but we did get a 2 week ride in down to Cali, across to Reno then back up to Canada and never once did i worry. when i have 100K i still won't worry. if something does break, well hey, it's a machine and i'll deal with that IF the time comes. but i truly believe this is a well built machine. nothin wrong with your GW either. ride what YOU want to ride. i have seen hondas break down too............

:bmw:

[Tat_n_Telle]

When you are out on the ride, stop and pop it up on the center stand. Grasp the rear wheel at 1400hrs and 2000hrs, try to get the wheel to move sideways. Push with one hand pull with the other, reverse procedure.


Yes, most final drive failures occur at either 2:00 PM or 8:00 PM, so those would be the best times to check it.






Why is my mind so warped?????

[DakotaDude]

OK, I joined this board trying to decide if wanted to sell my GL1800 to buy a LT. My friend has an 02 for 8500 bucks. What the heck is all these rear failure posts. How can I tell if this bike is about to fail? Does the tire really lock up? The mother of my children will be on the back :mad: . Does the weight of the rider/riders have an impact on failure?
trying to decide, Dale

You have probably read all the responses to your question so I will elaborate on only one of your concerns; there is no evidence/correlation that riding two-up (or pulling a trailer) contributes in any way to a rear drive failure. I would not be concerned about placing your SO in harms way.

The most likely cause of failure is improper installation, on the BMW assembly line, of the bearing into the rear drive housing; this, unfortunately, is beyond the control of the consumer.

Do not be concerned about a rear drive failure. Like anything mechanical with moving parts, the drive will eventually fail or require some form of repair. Many riders have over 100,000 miles on their original drives. There is more than enough technical expertise and people on this forum willing to help you if your drive fails. The cost of a new bearing and seal is about $170. This is a repair-it-yourself scenario but, if you are willing to perform the repair, the cost of parts is negligible.

The LT is truly a fine piece of machinery. In my opinion, it is the best touring bike available.

[Ted]

there is no evidence/correlation that riding two-up (or pulling a trailer) contributes in any way to a rear drive failure.

hmmm...BMW used to state that pulling a trailer will void the warranty. Seems that common sense would dictate that any combination of driver, passenger, and luggage that exceeds the maximum gross vehicle weight should be avoided. Adding a trailer on top of that seems to be asking for trouble.

Someone posted a while back they had 3 or 4 failures and pulled a trailer -maybe that post was just a hoax.

[cfell]

...Hey, if you're too worried, I'll ride it until it fails for ya..

[BecketMa]

SO far, no one has noticed a correlation between anything and the rear bearing failure.

They fail.
We don't know why.

If it fails under warranty, and you have a trailer hitch, BMW won't cover the failure.

One of the reasons we chose the LT over the Wing was because the Wing roasted my left foot, in city traffic, and it wasn't even over 100F!

Bob

[cfell]

...Hey, if you're too worried, I'll ride it until it fails for ya..

Allow me to clarify my statement...

"Hey, if you're too worried, Ill ride it until it fails for ya... then fix it for you.. no charge."

Actually I think the "failures" are caused by low cost and poor sourcing/manufacture. The "second failures" are due to same as well as added problem of surface oxidation/loss of temper due to improper install technique/preload/special incantation (incantation: see voodoo or the "Santa" thread)

[DakotaDude]

hmmm...BMW used to state that pulling a trailer will void the warranty. Seems that common sense would dictate that any combination of driver, passenger, and luggage that exceeds the maximum gross vehicle weight should be avoided. Adding a trailer on top of that seems to be asking for trouble.

Someone posted a while back they had 3 or 4 failures and pulled a trailer -maybe that post was just a hoax.

I believe BMW still maintains the position that pulling a trailer will void a normally warranted FD repair (in addition to other warranty issues). In typical BMW fashion, this was/is their lame-ass excuse for reneging on what should be a covered warranty item. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) does not include the weight of an object (a trailer) towed behind a vehicle. For instance, some of the newer Ford, Chevy, and Dodge 1-ton pickups are rated to tow 15,000 - 18,000 lbs, but their GVWR is 8500-9000 lbs. Example: The truck weighs 5000 lbs, thus, it is capable of another 3500-4000 lbs of carried (in the box) weight before exceeding its GVWR.

The tongue weight of a loaded Bushtec, Dauntless, Hannigan, etc trailer likely would not exceed 25-35 lbs; this is the maximum "carried" weight the trailer would contribute to reaching the LT's gross weight rating. In all practicality, the added tongue weight from a motorcycle trailer is nonexistent.

I suspect that 3-4 FD failures on the same bike is an exaggeration.

[dnifong]

OK we rode the LT for 4 hours yesterday. the rear end did not break, leak, or blow up :)

there is some noise though. However the tires need replacing.

We also rode the GL for 1 hour immediately after getting off the LT, to compare bikes in same riding conditions. :)

Our findings are this; the LT is more comfortable for me but not the SO.
She has more room on the GL. She is 5'3" and 120LB. Her foot pegs are to low. The seat back is more straight up on the LT. The GL accelerates much faster, but the LT is happier at 90 MPH. "I dont know why, unless it is the aero dynamic factors."

Braking seems equivilent, but i did not perform an emergency stop.

The biggest factor is less buffeting on the SO around semi trucks at highway speeds. This could be attributed to the Tulsa extra tall windshield and baker built side wings. "I dont know."

We are going with the LT as long as the selling and I can get together on the price.

I would also be interested in a trade. 01 GL 1800 with 19K trouble free miles. Custom paint and allot of extras.

[cfell]

Dude.. don't cha just HATE it when that happens!

[dnifong]

Deacon,

I dont follow your post.

Dale

[2002redrider]

Buy what you want. All brands have mechanical issues. My felings (at least until it fails) is that the BMW FD issue is over blown.

[dnifong]

Its true. the gl board is full of talk of overheating, frame failures and other stuff. My bike has not experienced anything like that. The frame issues are usually attributed to real heavy riders or severe pot holes etc. Both bikes have positive attributes. Motorcycling is a hobby for me. The "purchase decisions" is part of the fun for me. It's hard to beat anything made by Honda. However, they are so dependable, "it becomes kinda boring." My past 4 cars have been BMW. Each one has been a pain, compared to my daughters Accord, however Accord's have very little pazazz.

[dmatson]

To reduce the buffeting on the SO there are many aftermarket wind screens available for the LT to takecare of that, also adjust the under mirrow wings out to help. The top case does move to the rear for more room also, it is probably set in the stock forward position. Their are adjustable rear foot pegs available.

[Randy]

I believe BMW still maintains the position that pulling a trailer will void a normally warranted FD repair (in addition to other warranty issues). In typical BMW fashion, this was/is their lame-ass excuse for reneging on what should be a covered warranty item.I do not believe this to be true. I have had extensive conversation with 4 field reps for BMW as well as a number of more highly placed individuals within BMW Motorrad USA and that has never been a position of the American arm of BMW. John Preston at Bushtec claimed he worked closely with BMW when he designed his hitch for the LT and that fact was confirmed by an individual at BMW N.A. (the name of the American arm of BMW motorcycles at the time) several years ago.

The best we can tell is that the 'lame-ass' excuse was only promoted by some ill-informed dealers.

If someone can provide me with any documentation from BMW Motorrad USA that contradicts my statements above, I would be more than happy to bring it up with the Aftersales Manager for confirmation.

[cfell]

Deacon,

I dont follow your post.

Dale

sorry, Dale...
I was trying to be cute... one look at my picture on this post will set the record straight...and give you a laugh...

In your original post you were "afraid" after reading the posts here about all the "issues" with the LT... in your post just ahead of mine, you said you rode several hours... I don't recall the precise number... and that the LT had a problem for your lovely spouse due to the foot peg position... (I think I remember correctly) when compared to the other MC.

So, when I said "Don't cha hat it when that happens" I meant... Gee, rode the bike several hours and it didn't have any "issues" other than the problem for your bride.... kinda "tongue-in-cheek" comment, I know... but, it helps to have a sense of humor around here... again, I refer you to my pic.

Regarding the footpegs, we added adjustable floorboards which raise the passenger footing over 2 inches (I don't know how many M&M's that is) ...

Anyway, there are "fitting" adjustments for rider / passenger... for the LT and most any other MC for that matter...

Hope this clears it up, sir...

[tsBMWminer]

I just got the sharpie out and fixed my build date

:rotf::histerica


I took a sharpie and changed the build date on my bike to June of 2002. So I will no longer will worry about my FD. :D[/QUOTE]

[DakotaDude]

I do not believe this to be true. I have had extensive conversation with 4 field reps for BMW as well as a number of more highly placed individuals within BMW Motorrad USA and that has never been a position of the American arm of BMW. John Preston at Bushtec claimed he worked closely with BMW when he designed his hitch for the LT and that fact was confirmed by an individual at BMW N.A. (the name of the American arm of BMW motorcycles at the time) several years ago.

The best we can tell is that the 'lame-ass' excuse was only promoted by some ill-informed dealers.

If someone can provide me with any documentation from BMW Motorrad USA that contradicts my statements above, I would be more than happy to bring it up with the Aftersales Manager for confirmation.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. You apparantly have an ongoing relationship with some folks at BMW that should be "in-the-know" regarding the rear drive failure issue, and they should be aware of any situations or circumstances that would allow or preclude a warranteed drive failure. Do you, or anyone else, have any sort of published, publicly available documentation clearly and specifically stating that a rear drive will be repaired, within BMW's normal warranty guidelines (3 years/36,000 miles?), for any reason other than BMW's published exclusions?

Are dealers ill-informed? I wish I knew the answer to that question. Logic would indicate if a dealer tells an individual that their rear drive is not covered, specifically because their LT has pulled a trailer, that determination has to be based on some concrete directive from somewhere; it would not simply materialize from thin air. Most likely scenario: reimbursement from BMW to a dealer was refused because BMW was made aware, by the dealer, that the bike had pulled a trailer. The dealer may have assumed the repair was covered under warranty, and subsequently, had to eat their parts/labor costs.

I don't think anyone can argue the fact that BMW has waffled on the rear drive issue for years. From information on this website and other sources, BMW Corporate (Germany) doesn't even acknowledge that a rear drive issue exists for it's European market. For the US market, the issue has become a thorn in the side of BMW North America; one they have failed to adequately address.

Although not an issue for me because my LT is out-of-warranty (a 2000 model, albeit with only 20,000 miles), From my query to two BMW dealers, I have no doubt that I would have been denied warranty coverage for a FD failure (assuming a failure occurred within my warranty period) solely because I pulled a trailer. This is FACT, not incorrect assumption or misinterpretation on my part. As a sidenote, had I never pulled a trailer, I would be astonished if BMW would warranty a FD failure on my bike at it's current age, although it has only 20,000 miles.

Either BMW or it's dealers are doing a poor job of understanding or interpreting corporate policies and/or guidelines regarding FD issues. Again, for me, it is a non-issue, but, this is not true for many LT owners. There should be no guesswork or room for misinformation.

Instead of asking for documentation from individuals experiencing BMW's refusal to warranty FD failures on bikes pulling trailers, I ask you to support your view/opinion, with documentation, that specifically states FD failures associated with trailer-towing BMW bikes is specifically covered under warranty (within the factory designated warranty period). This should not be a difficult decision for BMW to verify if FD failures are, or are not, covered regarding trailer-towing BMW bikes. You apparantly have the connections with "highly placed" individuals within the BMW heirarchy to obtain a absolute, concrete answer to this issue. I, and many others, look forward to seeing if BMW can truthfully sidestep the corporate BS and step up to the plate.

I wish you the best of luck......you'll need it. I sincerely hope your Aftersales Manager can provide a worthwhile answer to the question.

[petepeterson]

Dakotadude,, your point is very well taken by me....RANDY You should be able to answer allot of questions on this forum.... Your friends (contacts) should be able to document the trailer towing issue...

Plus they should be in the know on the FD failure rate over the last 6 years...
I will definitely be watching this thread..............Pete

[dnifong]

Deacon, and everone.

Thanks for the reply and other good information. It's official, I sold the Goldwing today and I'm scheduled to purchase the LT tomarrow. I'm going to give it a shot. If we dont like it, we will regroup, and try something else. I went with the 02 with 39k for 8500 bucks. The current owner is hands off. He has never been to this site. I have a ton of questions about everthing from intercom to oil change questons.

The wife is OK with it, so the rest is easy ;)

[cfell]

Kewl! well, since GW won't be "American Made" much longer, good move.. =)

If you decide to buy a GW later I've been told it will be far cheaper than it is now..


hahahahahahahaha.. sure...


Enjoy your LT... it's going to be "good"...

[jdumas54]

[QUOTE]The GL accelerates much faster, but the LT is happier at 90 MPH.[QUOTE]

Haven't taken delivery of my new LT yet, so no experience yet, is this really typical? GL = faster acceleration?
Not meaning to start something- really!

[mkiesel]

Does the tire really lock up?
trying to decide, Dale

Mine did, but only for a second. Luckily, I was riding straight and at about 35 mph when it happened. Like I said it was only for an instant and the rear tire slid sideways about 12 inches, then it freed up again. I'm pretty sure if it had not freed up, I would have probably have gone down. I'm pretty sure that if it had happened in a turn that I would have gone down. My bike had 72,000 miles on it. I did notice a couple of wobbles and was slowing down to check things out when it happened.

Mike kiesel

[justlookin]

1800 6 cyl vs. 1200 4 cyl, I think both bikes are about the same weight.
I know there are other factors, but I would certainly think the GW would be faster from 0 to 60..
By the way I've had 0 problems with my LT for last 10,000 mi. (I'm a new guy, just had the LT for 8 months.)
Jeff

[Lynn_Keen]

If pulling a trailer voids any part of the factory warranty, then why do dealers sell and install trailer hitches? I purchased my '99 with a dealer installed hitch as part of the original purchase. There was never any mention of voiding the warranty. Also, just for the record, I traded my '99 on an '05 with around 97,000 miles on it and did not have any final drive issues. Of the 97,000 miles, approx. 15,000 were accomplished pulling an over loaded Kwik Kamp pop up camper riding two up and about another 5,000 pulling a small cargo trailer. Maybe I was just lucky!

[dnifong]

[QUOTE]The GL accelerates much faster, but the LT is happier at 90 MPH.[QUOTE]

Haven't taken delivery of my new LT yet, so no experience yet, is this really typical? GL = faster acceleration?
Not meaning to start something- really!


JD,

The 1800 Goldwing is a monster. It will trounce just about any big bike in straight line . Especially at lower speeds. "125HP, and 120 FT/LB of torque." However, I dont know if its pushing more air or the powerband is lower, but it runs out of steam around 110 MPH. The LT feels happier at highway speeds. We live on I-16 in Georgia. If the traffic is heavy and your not going at least low 80's it can be dangerous. Acceleration is an important safety feature at times. The LT is seems happy running and accelerating at those speeds. My Wifes 5 series BMW car is the same way. Good luck with the new bike. I'm picking mine up today or tomorrow. :)

[Shriker]

The LT is a GREAT motorcycle and I have had all types of bikes over 30 years of riding......

The newer (05+) are rated at 116 hp and actually produce about 100 at the rear tire almost exactly what a Wing does. The GL has ALOT more low end grunt with its much larger engine though. The LT is actually lighter (depending on what GL model you compare it to) and in an all out race keeping rpms up , will easily pull with or ahead of the GL......but these are not bikes you "race".

I would definitely take an LT over a Wing on a curvy road......

The older LT's like my 02 were rated at 100 hp and usually dyno around 85 to the tire. They feel almost exactly like the 05+ models until you get into the upper power band where the newer models make more power.

Dont get me wrong , Wing is a fantastic ride.......but NO electric windshield (this is a bigger deal than you think until you get one .....same with cruise control) , heat issues for some(relative to the LT), less ground clearance, lower fuel mileage (never cared about this much until gas prices started skyrocketing.....I averaged 46.67 mpg - actual , not computer - on our last two up 240 mile ride this past Sunday)

Oh I purchased my 02 LTC last year with about 9K and have only put on 3K so far with no issues (replaced the throttle cable before purchase, put on new Avon Storm tires recently)

I have ridden it next to and compared with a newer Wing , HD full dresser , Yamaha Star , new Victory Vision ...... Like mine best , just wish she was Canyon Red :bmw:

[jdumas54]

thanks guys for your responses, opinions and observations and facts! I love learning about this bike- reading and learning as much as I can from this great forum. I haven't bothered with the other forums to compare. ( I heard they exist) What more could I need or want?
Thanks again for your responses