K1200GT, FJR1300, ST1300 or C-14???

[cccpastorjack]

I have heard a lot about the Kawasaki Concours 14 lately. I so tire of people saying it is superior to the GT. :histerica

So I was wondering:

Let's say that someone is offering you a FREE motorcycle...absolutely free. Each model is fully loaded from the factory. You must keep it and ride it (can't resale it). Here are the choices:

1. BMW K1200GT

2. Yamaha FJR1300

3. Honda ST1300

4. Kawasaki Concours 14

VERY HONESTLY.... Which one do you take? Why?

[grifscoots]

Can you say ESA? What a brilliant inovation. If BMW doesn't put in on the new LT, they'd be fools. Stock cruise control that's better than any pickup. All day riding comfort. I can go on, but we all know what the GT has.

So, if I had a choice, it would be the GT.

Nevermind, I already chose.

[ranks]

I was fighting this very problem just a while ago. Money wasn't the issue for me.

I decided on the R1200RT, because I want my wife to be happy and I also remember how much I used the throttle on my old FZ1 !!

I just don't have the right wrist control needed for any of the above mentioned steeds.

[bowlesj]

GT for sure.

I believe it can be surgically handled better than any of the others. 2nd would be the Kaw, just for brute power.

Otherwise the GT is a BMW and more touring friendly from an aux power standpoint, ESA, ABS, traction control, etc.

[dwsdad]

Damn near bought a C14, but switched to the bright side and picked up the GT. I'm just too spoiled by the cruise, ESA, and everything else the C14 will never have. I even test rode the C14. It's nice, but it's no GT.

On a side note, since I still own a Connie, I frequent the Concours Owners site quite a bit. Seems they have 3 main gripes about the GT: cost, maintenance costs, and the ever present rear drive failures. I can't wait 'til they have to do their first full service on that bike. 10 to 1 it comes in pretty close to what we pay on the GT service.

[KKM]

Could have had any bike , but the GT is the one that came closest to what I need. I will change the seat , add lights , GPS , radar , and do something to get the wind off my hands. Maybe the windshield if the tall BMW does not work for me. The other bikes made in Japan are just missing something and trying to save a few thousand is a bad way to go. I will pick up my 08 GT this saturday maybe sooner as I find it hard to sleep the last few nights.
Kevin

[messenger13]

I'd pick the C14 in half a heartbeat!

Heck! I already own the GT! :D :D :D

The other two "choices" . . . well . . . no comment. ;)

[quint]

To me, there's no contest. While the FJR is competent and the C-14 is fast and good value (the ST is dated and out of its depth), the GT has an overall advantage in these areas:

1. Ergonomics
2. Fail-safe handling
3. Superb braking
4. Superior heat management

It wins game, set and match with cruise control, heated seats and heated grips. For serious touring types, cruise control is essential. Even though a Throttlemeister can relex the wrist, it still ain't cruise control.

Add in innovations like ESA, and the GT is unbeatable. In various European tests, the GT was shown to have drammatically better brakes than anything else in its class, and it has better roll-on performance than even the C-14, and the adjustable ergos leave the other bikes in its wake.

It's true that the GT has had its share of teething troubles, like the high idle, bucking bronco syndrome, EFI/airbox issues, etc, and I ain't saying it's perfect (crook seat and some cheap assemblies) - and it certainly isn't cheap - but it IS the best.

[DavidTaylor]

The GT, hands down. I've ridden all of these bikes except the ST1300, and it has zero appeal to me. The FJR would be second place as I think it's the most competent handling bike out of the bunch, but in this scenario it doens't compare to the GT in comfort, features and function. The C-14 has a cheapness to it in many of the parts (glove box, parts of the saddlebags) poor mirror placement, dumped enough heat on my left leg to be uncomfortable when it was 55 degrees outside (how do you think that will feel crossing nevada when it's 98??), and the one I road ran and stopped great but handled like a 3 legged pig.

Where do I pick up the free GT??? :D

[bigpapa]

I rarely hear people say the C14 is better than the GT, what I hear is the GT isn't worth the extra thousands of $$ compared to the C14. I believe a like equiped GT is at least $5k more than the C14. There are alot of sport touring people out there who don't want ESA, and ASC. I am one of them. In fact, I would choose not to have ABS if I could.

So the question for some may not be: is the C14 a better bike, but a better deal?

[hoog62]

Let's say that someone is offering you a FREE motorcycle...absolutely free. Each model is fully loaded from the factory. You must keep it and ride it (can't resale it). Here are the choices:

1. BMW K1200GT

2. Yamaha FJR1300

3. Honda ST1300

4. Kawasaki Concours 14

VERY HONESTLY.... Which one do you take? Why?

None of the above. Because my fickle taste in motorcycles is changing lately...again.

[cccpastorjack]

I rarely hear people say the C14 is better than the GT, what I hear is the GT isn't worth the extra thousands of $$ compared to the C14. I believe a like equiped GT is at least $5k more than the C14. There are alot of sport touring people out there who don't want ESA, and ASC. I am one of them. In fact, I would choose not to have ABS if I could.

So the question for some may not be: is the C14 a better bike, but a better deal?


So...if they were all free, which one would you take?

[bigpapa]

So...if they were all free, which one would you take?

I have gotten drunk on the BMW kool-aid, I would take a fully loaded GT.


But last week I coulda bought a GT, but picked the RT instead. Money wasn't a issue in my decision, my dealer was blowing out left over 07s.

[XMagnaRider]

Gotta hand it to Pastor Jack for his ability to choose a truly random, unbiased sample for his poll. The Gallop people would be proud! :)

I took over two years to choose a motorcycle to replace my worn-out Magna, which I enjoyed very much. Some of you may have seen me at the Cycle World show in December 2006 with my clipboard and measuring tape. I spent a lot of time, and took a lot of notes.

I chose the K1200GT. My second choice was between the R1200RT and the Yamaha FJR1300. The ST1300 and C-14 fell off the list early on.

I tried other bikes, too, including various Harley-Davidson (big twins and V-Rods), Victory (which I preferred to the big twin Harleys), Ducati, Triumph, Yamaha, and others. I took long test rides on some, and rented others for a day, where available. Most Japanese bike dealers around here do not offer test rides at all, and the Harley dealers refer you to the rental places.

The K1200GT is the perfect bike for me, as much for its versatility as well as its features and performance. I haven't had any serious mechanical problems (yet!), but wish that throttle control were easier.

Versatility: It is a pretty good commuter bike, especially with a 49 liter top case and the side cases removed. This is how I ride it most of the time. With the cases removed, it is a decent sport bike. With all the cases on, there is a lot of room for a lot of gear.

Features: The features are what beat everything but the RT. I really like the cruise control and ESA, in particular. I chose the GT over the RT for its inline-4 engine, its smaller faring, and especially the high/outside mirror placement. There isn't much discussion about the Duolever front suspension on these boards - we seem to take it for granted - but I really like it. A lot.

Performance: Not much to say here. The KGT beats nearly anything I tried, except for the true sport bikes like the K1200S, a few Ducatis, and the Japanese. I don't like the extreme riding position.

As with the Three Bears story, the K1200GT is "just right" for me.

[meese]

VERY HONESTLY.... Which one do you take? Why?Silly question, especially in this forum. :). Most of us here did pick the GT, and paid for it ourselves. So offering a "free" bike doesn't really influence that decision. It'd make more sense to ask the FJR or Connie guys if they would have preferred a GT if it was free (or at least equal cost to what they did buy). That might garner some interesting responses.

As for my opinion, I still want a K12RT. I like BMW's new technology, but the LT is too heavy and underpowered, and the RT just doesn't do it for me. So the GT with a few ergonomic mods is about the best option for me and my riding style.

[meese]

There are alot of sport touring people out there who don't want ESA, and ASC. I am one of them. In fact, I would choose not to have ABS if I could.Here you go, then:http://www.powersportstv.com/adminuploadedimage/400x200/2006_Kawasaki_Concours_Base.jpg

After all, you can't beat $8K out the door for a fully-faired sport-tourer with bags. You just can't find a better deal than that. :)

[hoog62]

It'd make more sense to ask the FJR or Connie guys if they would have preferred a GT if it was free (or at least equal cost to what they did buy).

Don't kid yourself, that is what he's after....again. :rolleyes:

[bmwhd]

Hmm...well I could have had any of these (except the C14 wasn't out yet). Cost was a factor but not a barrier to entry for me. I will say that I have a strong bias to the FJR based purely on cosmetics but that's a very subjective measure. I think it's far and away the best looking of the four.

I've finally put 10k miles on my '06 FJR (been riding the R80/7 a lot :D ) and I just don't get to take many long trips due to my schedule. Still, I'm riding the FJR nearly every day so I feel I know the bike and its pros/cons well.

Before I go further I should point out that I took a bike that cost me $12k new and added approximately $3,500 in farkles to set it up for LD riding including:

Electronic cruise control (Audiovox - $99 works flawlessly and looks factory)
Bixenon HID headlights (Hi/Lo telescoping) - fantastic, no need for aux lights
VStream windshield - best I've ever owned on a bike
Sargent seat - best non-custom seat EVER!!!
Steering stem mount for 2720 GPS
BMW-style power port in dash
Sirius sat radio-in-a-tank-bag
Yamaha top box
Staintune pipes (God's own sweet music!)
Powercommander (purely a vanity item, bike didn't need it)

With these mods, the bike is absolutely fantastic for me. All day comfort, rocket ship power, handles like it's on rails, I just could not be happier.

I do my own service (which consists of fluid changes until $24k miles) but I have had the dealer repair the following (all factory recalls for which Yamaha contacted me very promptly):

Top box bracket was replaced due to reports of cracking (mine did not)

Gauge cluster replaced due to faulty firmware that incorrectly calculated instant MPG (big freaking deal but why not? it was free)

ECU replaced to correct a very minor programming error that could cause surging under certain combinations of altitude change and riding pattern (also never impacted me).

I'll ride this bike until the wheels fall off. If BMW corrects the rear drive issues by then, I'll be looking at BMW again, otherwise it'll be another FJR (or what ever replaces it).

[Sofitel505]

Hmm...well I could have had any of these (except the C14 wasn't out yet). Cost was a factor but not a barrier to entry for me. I will say that I have a strong bias to the FJR based purely on cosmetics but that's a very subjective measure. I think it's far and away the best looking of the four.

I've finally put 10k miles on my '06 FJR (been riding the R80/7 a lot :D ) and I just don't get to take many long trips due to my schedule. Still, I'm riding the FJR nearly every day so I feel I know the bike and its pros/cons well.

Before I go further I should point out that I took a bike that cost me $12k new and added approximately $3,500 in farkles to set it up for LD riding including:

Electronic cruise control (Audiovox - $99 works flawlessly and looks factory)
Bixenon HID headlights (Hi/Lo telescoping) - fantastic, no need for aux lights
VStream windshield - best I've ever owned on a bike
Sargent seat - best non-custom seat EVER!!!
Steering stem mount for 2720 GPS
BMW-style power port in dash
Sirius sat radio-in-a-tank-bag
Yamaha top box
Staintune pipes (God's own sweet music!)
Powercommander (purely a vanity item, bike didn't need it)

With these mods, the bike is absolutely fantastic for me. All day comfort, rocket ship power, handles like it's on rails, I just could not be happier.

I do my own service (which consists of fluid changes until $24k miles) but I have had the dealer repair the following (all factory recalls for which Yamaha contacted me very promptly):

Top box bracket was replaced due to reports of cracking (mine did not)

Gauge cluster replaced due to faulty firmware that incorrectly calculated instant MPG (big freaking deal but why not? it was free)

ECU replaced to correct a very minor programming error that could cause surging under certain combinations of altitude change and riding pattern (also never impacted me).

I'll ride this bike until the wheels fall off. If BMW corrects the rear drive issues by then, I'll be looking at BMW again, otherwise it'll be another FJR (or what ever replaces it).


Yep, my '05 FJR just turned over 30K miles and the only problem was the throttle position sensor went bad. I replaced it myself and Yamaha reinbursed me full shop repair cost retroactively through the factory recall. I doubt BMW would have been as accomodating.

I agree that with $600-1000 of aftermarket goodies (cruise, seat, screen), the FJR is about as good as it gets for the money. And the true cost to own is almost surely lower than the GT if my BMW experience thus far is any indication.

Not only that, but BMW dealers/service outlets seem to be dropping like flies anyway. Yamaha factory trained techs are a little more commonplace.

[2002redrider]

If they were free is an interesting question. Personally, I would take the GT under that scenario because, I too drink the BMW Kool-Aid and have owned no other brand since 1993. Also basic human nature dictates most of us would opt for the most expensive item if on someone else's dime, just because it was. They aren't free though, are they?

All in the GT is likely 50% more than the others plus I have just not warmed up to that slab sided look. The first gen RS/GT is just plain beautiful to me. No offense to the owners of the new model as I am sure they are state of the art cutting edge and are worthy of your personal devotion. I'm just usually a late adopter of a radical new style change.

If I were to personally buy one of the four right NOW, it would be the Yammie.

[slparry]

I have heard a lot about the Kawasaki Concours 14 lately. I so tire of people saying it is superior to the GT. :histerica

So I was wondering:

Let's say that someone is offering you a FREE motorcycle...absolutely free. Each model is fully loaded from the factory. You must keep it and ride it (can't resale it). Here are the choices:

1. BMW K1200GT

2. Yamaha FJR1300

3. Honda ST1300

4. Kawasaki Concours 14

VERY HONESTLY.... Which one do you take? Why?

I went through this process recently as I had been left some money and was able to cherry pick whatever I wanted ...

Dismissed the Honda as I'm not a Honda fan (although the ST1300 has been the only one I like in their range for a long while) and more importantly they appear to be wobbly old beasts at three figure velocities, as several police forces have had issues with them and apparently have restricted officers to 80mph or have taken them off the road. I believe Honda have denied there's an issue?

The Yamaha I liked but it is a bit dated and Yamaha's fasteners go rusty and furry very quickly, as do all of the Japanese bikes during a British winter to greater or lesser amounts.

I've always been a big fan of Kawasaki, worked for them at one time, but I don't think the multi franchise dealer network is a good thing for customer support. Kawasaki dealers used to only sell Kawasakis (and maybe Moto Guzzi's or BMW's occasionally) at one time in the UK. Additionally as common with all Japanese bikes if they get a whiff of salted UK roads they corrode quickly and suffer brake seizing.

I tested an R1200RT and loved it but just felt that in 6 months I'd be craving a bit more power.

Also tested the R1200GS Adventure. Same remark re power as the RT. Would love one to replace my F650 Funduro as a 2nd bike.

Since the new airbox I have been ecstatic with the :bmw: K1200GT SE, It's a joy to ride!

[ronk1200lt]

The price differential in Canada between a concours 14 and a GT is about $8000 Cdn. However it would take an McCruise ($800), ESA (the ohlins aftermarket version is $1,800 if you could get it), heated grips ($125), heated seat ($400) to bring the 14 up to par with the GT in the option department. Outfitting a 14 with the same options as a GT if they were even available would cost an additional $3125 Cdn. This leaves the 14 about $4875 cheaper even if they could be outfitted the same way. If I was on a budget, I would buy a used GT first or a new 14 second. If I wasn't on a budget I would buy the GT.

[messenger13]

None of the above. Because my fickle taste in motorcycles is changing lately...again.Did Ken tell you to like something else again? :rotf:

[messenger13]

Before I go further I should point out that I took a bike that cost me $12k new and added approximately $3,500 in farkles to set it up for LD riding including:

Electronic cruise control (Audiovox - $99 works flawlessly and looks factory)
Pics please. :) I installed an Audiovox CC on my old Kia Sportage. Worked great, but I wouldn't say that it looked "factory". I'm wondering if their motorcycle unit is any better. If not a pic, a link?

[bmwhd]

For the Audiovox CC, I used the mounting bracket from Skyway (http://skywaymotorcycleaccessories.com/store/ccp0-prodshow/AudiovoxCCSmount.html) here.

The photo really doesn't do it justice. On the bike, it really looks like it came from the factory and it's well in reach of your left thumb.

[dwsdad]

For the Audiovox CC, I used the mounting bracket from Skyway (http://skywaymotorcycleaccessories.com/store/ccp0-prodshow/AudiovoxCCSmount.html) here.

The photo really doesn't do it justice. On the bike, it really looks like it came from the factory and it's well in reach of your left thumb.

It may look JAPANESE factory, but it does not look BMW factory. I put one on my '86 Connie several years ago and it does work great......but it's FAR from factory looking.

You can add heated grips for about $25, but there again, it doesn't look factory.

There is just no way to add aftermarket goodies to a bike and have it look as integreated as any BMW. Period.

[hoog62]

Did Ken tell you to like something else again? :rotf:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd78/DrunkenMime_bucket/Forum_Gifs_Pics_Econs/forrest_joke.jpg
__________________

[the1mavin]

Is maintanence included ;-) I'd have to take the GT, since there is already a C14 in the garage.

[meese]

http://www.bmwlt.com/gallery/files/1/7/8/knowitall.jpg

[messenger13]

Ah Ken! Did you send that cute little pic to Dave and teach him how to post it? That's so thoughtful of you.


Poor Gail. Poor Dayle. If only they knew... :o

[hoog62]

Ah Ken! Did you send that cute little pic to Dave and teach him how to post it? That's so thoughtful of you.


Poor Gail. Poor Dayle. If only they knew... :o

You might want to leave my wife out of this asshole.

[DavidTaylor]

Hey, you three play nice. We don't need every thread degrading into a name calling match. :mad:

[bmwhd]

It may look JAPANESE factory, but it does not look BMW factory. I put one on my '86 Connie several years ago and it does work great......but it's FAR from factory looking.

You can add heated grips for about $25, but there again, it doesn't look factory.

There is just no way to add aftermarket goodies to a bike and have it look as integreated as any BMW. Period.

Yeah, you're right. I only had an LT with factory cruise and this to compare...with my own eyes...guess I must be wrong.

[shadowofshoe]

Call Me Crazy.....

But I had a deal set up for a 2007 C-14 and only had to ride my 2005 KLT1200 to the dealership to cement the transaction(trade-in)-but those 20 miles made me think....WTF am I doing, I love this bike!!!!!!!
Shockingly-I told the kaw dealer I musta forgot what a great scoot I own!!

Mike

[DaveDragon]

R1200GS Adventure

Reason: The best!http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[NO1ZX6R]

this thread topic is my reason for joining this site - although the more I think about it the more I realize I'm going to prob get a BMW, even if it's pre-owned. not that the cycle rags are always "right" b/c as stated previously, there are a lot of mitigating factors that go into any and all intelligent motorcycle purchases. but it seems that in most of the comparo tests for sport touring motorcycles, and most of the awards given out, the BMW's are considered the best. if price is not a factor of course.

[norriscooper]

I've finally put 10k miles on my '06 FJR
ECU replaced to correct a very minor programming error that could cause surging under certain combinations of altitude change and riding pattern (also never impacted me).


Replaced ECU !!!!!! I thought these Yamaha's were perfect.

Back to the question. I could have had any bike I lusted for.
On my short list of wants are:
Cruise control
Heated grips
RANGE

E.S.A. is a very nice option also

GT has it all! And it is FREE, FREE, FREE, thanks to Pastor Jack!

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
06 K1200GT
93 K1100RS

[murray]

R1200GS Adventure

Reason: The best!http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
I agree,,! Despite the potential FD failure of all BMW bikes the GSA is the # 1 choice for me . . Without the temporary ESA . Good concept good luck rebuilding . My next bike will be the FJR or the GSA after I test ride the Y. The ease of maintenance on the GS is a big factor !

[grifscoots]

Without the temporary ESA . Good concept good luck rebuilding . Works Performance (WP) can replace the shocks with rebuildable ones at have the price of OEM. I don't know how I lived without ESA.

[cccpastorjack]

Works Performance (WP) can replace the shocks with rebuildable ones at have the price of OEM. I don't know how I lived without ESA.



I agree! I thought I wouldn't use it much, but it helps me handle the bike better in wind, traffic, on the super-slab and all kinds of conditions. I really use mine a LOT. :D

[grifscoots]

I meant to type HALF the price of OEM. So much moron, so leetle time.

[Dick]

I meant to type HALF the price of OEM. So much moron, so leetle time.
OMG - you just wait 'til you get a pink slip from Dick Francis!!!* :histerica


*See letters to the editor, page 11, of Feb issue BMW ON!! :p

[meese]

I don't know how I lived without ESA.ESA is kinda like the adjustable windshield or the cruise control on the LT. Seemed like an extravagant gimmick at first, but after using it over many thousands of miles you wonder how you lived without. :)

[messenger13]

ESA is kinda like the adjustable windshield or the cruise control on the LT. Seemed like an extravagant gimmick at first, but after using it over many thousands of miles you wonder how you lived without. :)Dag...I hate it when we agree.

[grifscoots]

OMG - you just wait 'til you get a pink slip from Dick Francis!!!* :histerica


*See letters to the editor, page 11, of Feb issue BMW ON!! :pI saw that and thought at the time that the boy was wearing some walking on water shoes.

[meese]

Dag...I hate it when we agree.So, you finally painted your bike Dark Graphite Metallic? :D

[DavidTaylor]

Dag...I hate it when we agree.

I feel a disturbance in the force...

http://www.isi.edu/isd/yoda/Yoda.JPG

[messenger13]

So, you finally painted your bike Dark Graphite Metallic? :DYepperz! But than I realized it was at least 10% slower, so I went back to the fastest color. :p

[monmon2]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page...5874&Page=1

Monte
Kerrville

[norriscooper]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page...5874&Page=1

Monte
Kerrville

1100 miles in four days. What were they doing?

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
06 K1200GT
93 K1100RS

[meese]

They bitch about the GT's brakes when the bike was turned off, but it no longer has the power-assisted brakes. Big mistake that any competent bike journalist should have caught. And they bitch about the price, but also said they'd be glad to own the Beemer if they could afford it.

Some of us can. :)

[cccpastorjack]

They bitch about the GT's brakes when the bike was turned off, but it no longer has the power-assisted brakes. Big mistake that any competent bike journalist should have caught. And they bitch about the price, but also said they'd be glad to own the Beemer if they could afford it.

Some of us can. :)


Oh my gosh....now I agree with Ken! :eek: What's it coming too????

Poor underpaid motojournalists! Had to settle for second best! :histerica

[meese]

Oh my gosh....now I agree with Ken! :eek: What's it coming too????And slowly my plan takes shape . . . :D

Just remember the write-in option this coming November. :rotf:

[cccpastorjack]

And slowly my plan takes shape . . . :D

Just remember the write-in option this coming November. :rotf:


And I thought you were voting for ME! ;)

[meese]

Sorry Pastor, I never mix religion & politics. :D

[jayjacobson]

You might want to leave my wife out of this asshole.
Why?! (filler)

[meese]

Why?! (filler)Just let it go, Jay. Please.

[fas]

Ah Ken! Did you send that cute little pic to Dave and teach him how to post it? That's so thoughtful of you.


Poor Gail. Poor Dayle. If only they knew... :o


Now Joe you don't want to get put in the corner again.....;)

Joe, if it ever gets over 30 degrees, come over and ride my new Super Duke. I'd be interested in how you like the V-Twin from Austria. The RC8 arrives in March and KTM (as some of you know they are my client) will have a ride drive at Mid Ohio before the RC8's are in the dealerships. This new RC8 will be on par with the Duc 1098S and may be faster than the over priced R. Mid Ohio, free rubber to melt down, free food, and no worries about speed traps or cops with attitudes! Come on down. Any K-Riders are welcome. Ping me and I'll get the details to ya.

Back to the question at hand, I would select the GT. As I already did in 2006. As Grif said, ESA. Our good pals in the land of the rising sun have not made that leap to NEW suspension technology. For folks like me who ride fast a lot solo and then ride 2-up, then add lots of junk on the bike like health club bag, computer bag, the large top case loaded.........this ESA is just TITS. And Pastor Jack.... thanks again for that book. It helped me deal with the loss of my Dad. You rock.

[bmwhd]

Replaced ECU !!!!!! I thought these Yamaha's were perfect.



;) Nope. Just perfectly supported by the manufacturer. From internet rumor (and you know those can't be trusted!) to validated issue to free replacement in 6 months elapsed time. Now maybe if someone would start a rumor about the FDs, BMW would take notice...