GS Mechanical Reliability

[judgejoe]

I own an LT and I am considering adding a 2001-1150 GS. I ride 2-up with my wife. The purpose of the purchase is a group trip to Latin American in 2008, and else where later. I understand the off road and weight limitation of the GS, and that is satisfactory with me. I have taken a college motorcycle mechanical course, but not specific to the GS. I will be receiving additional off road bike training. My question is its mechanical reliability. After doing some research, including Horizons Unlimited, I have seen some spirited discussions between the GS and V Strom owners. The V Strom is also being considered. It appears that some people believe the reliability of the GS is over inflated. The critics identify such issues as: clutch reliability and repair difficulty in remote conditions, electrical short comings, and the need for diagnostic tools for mechanical problem identification, etc. I thought I would turn to the GS forum for some historical mechanical experience input, good or bad. Thanks.

[Yiet]

Joe,

I am not a GS owner now, but I was just reading this blog: http://www.gregorye77.freeserve.co.uk/poole.htm

This couple are riding round the world on an older GS and have encountered at least two issues with the final drive seals and one final drive bearing failure. They have travelled about 50000 km with two up and fully loaded, starting in Halifax, NS up to Anchorage down to Ushuaia and are at present in Argentina. It's a good read but the final drive issues are disconcerting to say the least. The good news is that they seem to be able to find repair services wherever and whenever they were required. I'll be interested to hear about your decision as it is one that I hope to be making in the next year myself.

Happy travels,

[mikerd400]

I have a 1200GS and have had no real problems. I have ridden through Mexico, and several other trips. I have done several off road trips as well. When I was in Mexico, it was mostly on dirt roads.

I think you would be okay. If I was to do a Latin America trip on an older, used GS, I would replace the final drive. That will most likely be the weak link.

[strsout]

judgejoe, like you I ride two up 100% of the time and like you we are planning a trip two up to south america but in 2009.
After considering the few options (KTM, VStrom and GS) for a two up trip, we end up buying a 2003 R1150GS.
At the beginning the wife was reluctant to ride on the GS, but after a good seats, relocating foot pegs and a good backrest, today she is more likely to choose the GS then the LT.
Actually yesterday I asked here if she would like to go on the LT to our next trip to Baja, Mexico, since all other couples are riding LTs, and to my surprise she sad that she would prefer the GS...
Well, that didn't anwser your reliability questions, and I have only a little over 7K miles on this new for me GS to talk about reliability but keep in mind that you will have issues with almost any bike you choose to do a long ride in low maintained roads, so at least, do it comfortable.
you can see the improvements I've done on my GS here:
http://www.viajareua.com/BMW_GS.html
Tell us about your ridding plan to SA. :)

[jpalamaro]

I own an LT and I am considering adding a 2001-1150 GS.

I have an '06 R1150GS Adventure (yes, it's an '06) and an '07 R1200GS Adventure. I wouldn't worry one bit about the 1150 nor the 1200. The one PLUS for the 1150 is no CAN-bus and the dreaded EWS antenna ring/immobilizer issue, that's blown out of proportion on ALL BMW's with CAN-bus, IMO.

For real info tho', check in on ADVRIDER.COM and the GSpot forum. That's where the action is re: GS's.

Good luck!

[Ruben]

Warning, LONG ramble coming!

The final decision needs to be yours, but travel for a "westerner" can be a bit problematic in any but "western" areas (North America & Western Europe). If you're not going as part of a "group tour", the burden on you increases. Some would find this daunting, others just consider it adventure.

I owned a 2004 V-Strom 1000, that I kept for less than 10,000 miles. It had great power, decent character, and rode pretty good on paved roads at speeds just over 100 MPH and less (it became unstable beyond that, with an unnerving swerve oscillation that got somewhat scary).

Good points of the V-Strom
- Cushy ride, my BMW is better.
- Comfortable riding position, the GS is at least as good.
- easy to add an electronic speed control (this is likely a bit more difficult on a R1150GS, WAY tougher on the R1200GS)
- Good headlights, much better than the R1150GS, but auxiliary lights even that out.
- The chain drive "should" be easier to repair than a drive shaft when away from normal dealerships, except the V-Strom has a real problem with the shaft seal at the gearbox that has left some stranded with a ruined engine and an oil covered rear wheel. Probably about as likely to happen and a BMW rear seal failure.
- Baring fuel pump or seal failure, neither of which I experienced, the V-Strom was easy to knock out thousand mile days with. I've done back to back thousand miles days without drama or issue on my GS, which I was unable to do with the V-Strom. (I have no idea why this is, but I was "toast" after a long day on the V-Strom, glad it was over, but with the GS I only quit when I'm too sleepy to continue, and EAGER to go the next morning when I wake up. Both bikes were set up very comfortable for me, and for the first five hundred miles, I'd call it a draw for comfort.

Things about the V-Strom that I didn't like
- Terrible brakes! The front brake was so weak that it was impossible to lock on dry pavement! (well, on at least one occasion, I locked the front wheel, but it was an in-traffic panic situation, wet road, and the wheel locked when the front suspension bottomed. No I didn't drop it, but I'll never know to this day why! The BMW brakes are outstanding!
- Terrible suspension, way too soft, poor dampening. (front brake application would often bottom the front forks) I used Jesse bags, and did carry quite a bit of weight in them. The BMW suspension is WAY better, although it can be made better yet with aftermarket gear.
- Alternator was too small. When I used full heated gear, I had to turn off my auxiliary lighting. Choice was be warm, OR see where I was going! The GS has over double the available power.
- No ABS brakes. This was the primary reason why I sold the bike! Make sure the ABS is functional if you buy a used GS. I think there were a few R1200GS shipped without ABS, not sure about the 1150
- Stock seat was way too soft, but then it is on almost all motorcycles, including my R1200 GS-Adventure
- It had an annoying surge (very common on the bigger Strom) around 3,000 RPM that I could never solve. It idled fine, and would creep along just fine in traffic, although with almost no power, or run the engine at 4,000 RPM plus, making it sound like I was a want to be racer. Almost nothing in between. On the interstate this was never an issue, but it was a BIG issue in the dirt. The BMW engine is a marvel of smooth power delivery.
- Helmet buffeting was a major issue for me on the V-Strom, it has never been an issue for me on my GS.
- I never had either of these problems, but the big V-Strom has had several failures, one of which I personally know of, where the front secondary drive sprocket seal fails, and with no warning, dumps all the oil, coating the rear wheel, and ruining the engine. The other problem, common to both the 650 and the 1,000 V-Strom is fuel pump failures. LD riders using them now carry a spare!

My BMW isn't the perfect motorcycle either, but I've owned about thirty motorcycles in the forty three years that I've been riding, and ridden lots of others. For my use, my BMW is the best motorcycle that I've ever owned! Its no dirt bike, but it handles hard pack dirt roads just fine, and on paved roads its more comfortable than my Goldwing!

Compared to a V-Strom, the BMW will likely cost twice as much, and is worth every penny!

[judgejoe]

Thanks for your responses. I have also followed up on the suggested web sites. I have been following and mapping the progress of Greg and his wife. Our plans are to do a five week tour in Mexico in April 2008. It is being put on by a member of our local BMW club in Colorado. He will be circumnavigating Mexico from west coast to east coast. Then, I am currently map planning central and south america for 2009-unless we go elsewhere.

[tmgs]

I own an LT and I am considering adding a 2001-1150 GS. I ride 2-up with my wife. The purpose of the purchase is a group trip to Latin American in 2008, and else where later. I understand the off road and weight limitation of the GS, and that is satisfactory with me. I have taken a college motorcycle mechanical course, but not specific to the GS. I will be receiving additional off road bike training. My question is its mechanical reliability. After doing some research, including Horizons Unlimited, I have seen some spirited discussions between the GS and V Strom owners. The V Strom is also being considered. It appears that some people believe the reliability of the GS is over inflated. The critics identify such issues as: clutch reliability and repair difficulty in remote conditions, electrical short comings, and the need for diagnostic tools for mechanical problem identification, etc. I thought I would turn to the GS forum for some historical mechanical experience input, good or bad. Thanks.

everyone I know personally that has a new 1200gs has had a final drive failure, expect for ours. and I don;t think mark has. those that own the 1150's I only know of two that had a final drive failure.


we have 31k on our 1200gs and 19k on the 1200gsa with no breakdown so far, we change the final drive fluid at each service

[ronk1200lt]

Hi Tom! I ride with 3 guys that have GS/GSA's. No one has ever had a final drive fail including myself. Out of curiousity, how many miles did these bikes have on them before the final drive packed it in?

[tmgs]

Hi Tom! I ride with 3 guys that have GS/GSA's. No one has ever had a final drive fail including myself. Out of curiousity, how many miles did these bikes have on them before the final drive packed it in?

seems they were all pretty low 20k or so

we haven't had one go on either of our 1200's yet either shouldn't be long though befoer one does :histerica

[ronk1200lt]

I wonder if we should start a survey like they have for the LT to start documenting final drive failures on the GS/GSA?

[tmgs]

I wonder if we should start a survey like they have for the LT to start documenting final drive failures on the GS/GSA?


It did no good on the lt.

besides I heard tale final drives with drain plugs on them are showing up, maybe just changing the fluuids more often will be the ticket

<grin>

[jpalamaro]

Aha...the F800GS with a chain? But who knows, primary goes kaput????

[tmgs]

Aha...the F800GS with a chain? But who knows, primary goes kaput????

that bike actually had me wishing I had waited on buying the 1200gsa, mainly because of the chain and it's cc's.

[jpalamaro]

that bike actually had me wishing I had waited on buying the 1200gsa, mainly because of the chain and it's cc's.

Sorry to steal the thread, but the 'chain' aspect an interesting one and fits somewhat into the thread.

If it ever shows Tom. March 8th supposed to be the delivery date here in the States but that is becoming suspect. Not sure why. The power/weight ratio ok and it sure looks good, but the wimpy tank capacity after 9 gals in the GS Adv well, that's a downer. Go figure, here I am looking for something lighter to add to the stable and in the same breath bitching about the gas tank capacity. Go figure!!!

[kwn306]

I have a 95 GS with about 80K on it, still has the original final drive, fluid changed every 6K, but destroyed the trans at 50K. Installed a used trans with all new bearings. I would take the bike anywhere :rotf:

[gfspencer]

It did no good on the lt.

besides I heard tale final drives with drain plugs on them are showing up, maybe just changing the fluuids more often will be the ticket

<grin>
My new 08 has a final drive with a drain plug and - per BMWNA - the fluid gets changed at the first service. My only problem now is putting 500 miles on the bike. :(

[switz]

I plan to change the fluids on my new GSA like I did on the '07RT (which lacks a drain on the FD). I changed at 700 miles and the transmission and FD oil were very dark and small particles were visible. I changed again at 1,500 miles with significant improvement in transmission and FD oil color and very little particle contamination. At 3k the color was normal and the oil was clear. I have changed again at 6k and 9.4k. After the 12k service, I will shift to a 4k schedule. I am not comfortable with 6k intervals.

It would be interesting to know if the oil in the FD gave any warning of impending failure due to darkening from heat or particles showing up in the drain pan.

[justlookin]

I did as much research as I could when looking, but I have to admit.. I'm on a very tight budget. I found a 97 1100GS on the Adventure Board.
The current owner had put on Ohlins, Remus exhaust, protection bars, risers, bags, etc. The down side was 73,000 mi.. He still has the original FD, and not had problems. He did say there are clutch issues. He is throwing in a spare cable he has always carried with him. I should be able to let you know a little more in a few weeks. I have a 1,800 mi ride to bring it home..
He did say, he would take it to Alaska tomorrow. It's been a extremely reliable bike for him.
He had a chance to get a 08 Adventure at a good price and jumped on it.
I go back and forth on the milage issue. If it had been sitting in a garage for most of the last 11 years, who knows what shape it's in.
My purpose is just local riding on the 1000s of miles of forest service roads here in MO. :)
Jeff

[usmctpdog]

Ruben might have an agenda when it comes to his GS vs the V-Strom. He cites some problems I have never even heard of and would I would recommend taking a look at any of the V-Strom boards to confirm this.
* Many DL 1000's are now hitting 100,000+ miles without ANY problems. Here is one w/ 100,000 Miles from the adventure board:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323749

I am on my second DL1000 for the fabulous reliability. I love BMW as much as anyone and will prolly have another, but not having a reliable dealer within a short range makes it hard to want one bad enough since it is not a question of Will it be an expensive break, it is more a question of WHEN and how far will I be from a dealer? Particularly when not directly on either coast.

[BMWGS]

My question is its mechanical reliability.

My GSes have been reliable, but then, I don't have a kazillion miles on any of them either.

More important is roadside repairability.

It appears that some people believe the reliability of the GS is over inflated. The critics identify such issues as: clutch reliability and repair difficulty in remote conditions, electrical short comings, and the need for diagnostic tools for mechanical problem identification, etc.

Its funny how you just don't see too many of the "critic's" bikes here and there all over the world on a tour though.

As for the issues you've mentioned, well when you have a high-tech bike, roadside analysis and repair is next to impossible. When they run, they run great and when they don't, its cell phone and flat bed time. The "critics" are right there...nothing like simplicity.

My pick will always be an airhead GS for that type of touring.

[ronk1200lt]

I have had my GSA for a year and have had no problems whatsoever. I think that the GS/GSA is the long distance of mount of choice for most international tourers. If reliability was such a big deal, they would be touring the world on something else.

[justlookin]

Just a follow up to GS reliability. I mentioned earlier I'd do an update once I took the bike back to St Louis from LA..
I ended up riding 2,400 mi in 3 days. The 97 R1100 GS started with 73,400 (now with almost 76,000 miles) ran perfectly! :D
I am very impressed with the GS. It's the 1100, but I thought it had plenty of power. I kept it at 80 mph for tank after tank of gas without problems.
The speedometer is not far off either (compared to GPS)
I have a ride planned this weekend with lots of gravel roads a few creek crossings.
I'll see how it does off road.. :bmw:

Jeff

[ronk1200lt]

I guess this is why the GS is the number one choice of global travellers.

[luke_connolly]

I picked up an '05 R1200GS in San Jose in March and rode it 2/3 of the way down Baja, then back to Ottawa in 3 weeks (7000 miles). Not a problem on dirt or paved highway, BUT the VStrom I was riding with lost a clutch and was stranded for a few days in Guerrero Negro before a mechanic hobbled together a fix using an old Honda clutch. Does this mean the next VStrom will fail, or that the next GS won't? No, but I bet on my GS (and LT).