Rode the RT - Tough Decision

[garyj]

If you check out the CLASSIFIED on this forum you will see my LT on the block. Making a long story short, because of an old knee injury, I need to ride a lighter bike. I’ve looked at all my options and came up with the following choices: Honda ST1300, Yamaha FJR and R1200RT. Because of heat issues, options available and seating positions I’ve decided against the Honda and Yamaha, although I’m sure they are great bikes.

Interested in the '06 R1200FRT (the red one is really striking) , I emailed and called one BMW dealer and visited another twice. After being in the second dealers showroom for the second time for about fifteen minutes I asked to see a manager. I told him I was being ignored for the second time (they were not busy) and found the salespersons knew almost nothing about the BMW’s. They seemed up on Yamaha’s and ATV’s. I thought he should know I would not buy from that shop for the stated reasons and I hoped my comments would help them in the future. He was nice but did not restore my confidence in their shop.

The dealer I emailed and called didn’t respond. This morning I rode the forty miles to make a personal visit. As it happens, the salesperson remembered both my email and phone call. He was a nice guy as well. We talked for a while and I told him his sales would improve greatly if he returned emails and calls. He agreed and apologized. He had a new well-equipped RT and said I was welcome to take it out for a ride. He’d take another bike and show me some nice roads to show off how the RT handles. I’d brought my helmet and jacket (I was in my cage) and it was cooler than I expected, so he even found me some gloves. We took about a 13 miles ride, even getting rained on for a short time. I could work with this guy!

Now for my thoughts on the RT – IT’S NO LT! To be fair, I realize it is not meant to be. For my riding style, I was most disappointed in the vibrations at idle and low speed and how much wind made it to my helmet, even with the windshield up. The bike was new so I rode it with care, but did not think it was a lot faster than my LT – although I’m sure it is. After break-in and above 6500rpm I assume it comes alive. It felt very nimble and almost like I could flick it around. That doesn’t happen with the LT. With the optional low seat (he was nice enough to unpack one and slip it on) and in the low position the bike provided no load for my knee – even when I leaned to my bad side to test it.

In the parking lot the RT can be turned on a dime – the LT is more like a pie plate. I don’t know what I think about the brakes. He said they were not the same as the LT, but I didn't notice. I purposely made some slow sharp turns requiring slipping of the clutch and dragging the rear brake. It did feel like the front brake was not as engaged as the LT’s at slow speed. The RT feels very stable in those conditions. I’ve gotten used to the LT’s braking – the RT would require no adjustments on my part.

What’s the tough decision? I’m not sure I am really interested in the change. I was hoping that when I got off the RT I would be anxious to get on this new bike and wouldn’t miss the LT. I am not sure that is the case. My knee will be happy but my favorite motorcycle may still be my LT!

[meese]

Gary,

Unless you need to get a new bike today, I'd say wait just a little longer and then test ride the new K1200GT. It may be the compromise that you're looking for.

[gearman]

I'm new to BMWs (ex Electra Glide TOURING Rider)
Took my wife to Capitol BMW in Raleigh three weeks ago for an LT Demo ride. They had an open house and we had the opportunity to mingle with the BMW crowd (different atmosphere than the HD's)
Got the LT up to 105 on the expressway and asked my wife how fast we were going...being used to the HD she said 75-80. She loved the smooth ride and handling of the bus.

Last weekend I went to Carolina BMW to ride the RT (alone cause she's in Chicago with the new grandson)

It's hard to decide, the RT handles so crisp and clean. Feels like a mini bike!
Anyway, tomorrow morning I pick up my 05 Blue LT!!

Maybe next year we will get rid of her custom sporty and get her an RT. Heck, she may just let me ride it once in a while :D Good luck on your difficult choice.

[dshealey]

Boy are you right about the different atmosphere from the usual HD crowd!

There are a great many HD riders who fit right in, the ones who are in it for the ride, not the attitude. Unfortunately, most are riding the attitude, and could not care less if the bike is really any good. :D

[petepeterson]

Gary, I sure understand your problem with the knee..

From football,falling down drunk and twenty years of running in the Marines, I have a knee that gets so bad I can't get up off the couch...

I started wearing a Ace knee rap, got the velcro on it and is padded on the knee, really made a difference with the LT....
Would hate to see you give up a ride you really like cause the rest of them don't hold a candle to the LT............Regards Pete

[Jerrod Maguire]

I rode the R1200RT yesterday and really disliked it... just as much as I do the R1150RT. I'm just not a fan of the boxer engine and that's all there is to it. When it comes to road bikes I'll stick with the K series or get out of BMW's all together. Moreover, I don't really understand this knee stuff. The LT is meant for the open road and not for stop and go. Lots of mileage and a need for comfort and wind protection drive an LT. Drive in town with frequent stops, get a smaller more nimble bike with less wind protection and less weight. By the way, spend some time building up the muscles on all sides of the knee and it will help out with the pain and disability; especially if you stick with a long term program. Of course, I may sound different in 20 years... I have no issues as of now with my knees.

[garyj]

Ken, I just may end up waiting that long. I'm not in a hurry. It's just disappointing to ride the RT and not feel more motivated to buy one. I don't blame it on the bike. I realize I didn't have reasonable expectations of the bike before the ride.

Gearman, You'll love the LT. I've never ridden anything as smooth. Of course, I've not ridden a GoldWing yet. That's wouldn't be good for my knee!

David, I have some HD friends who are great. One of my best friends won't hardly wear a piece of clothing unless it has HD on it. It just makes me realize what marketing genius is able to do. It isn't a bike. It's a lifestyle.

Pete, The injury was about 20 years ago. So, the aging process hasn't helped! I wear a brace from time to time.

Jerrod, I agree on the engine. I didn't like the feel or sound of it. Of course, maybe the Remus could help the sound part. On the open road the LT poses no problems. In California, it's hard to find open road. Lots of parking lots to ride on :-)

With all the excitement about the RT I expected more defenders to respond. I'm surprised.

[mongo]

I agree with Pete. Think about other options that may allow your knee to better work on the LT. While shedding 150 pounds of bike may help, there are 3 other considerations besides riding with a little more care. The knee support is #1. Even what seems to be a trivial amount of knee wrap does afford some mechanical advantage in protecting a knee. I am assuming you have also optimized physical therapy such as quadraceps strengthening which I will not get into. #2 optimize seat height #3 optimize peg position.

As I do not know the specifics of you knee injury(s), I can only generalize. Most knee derangements will be helped by increasing quadraceps muscle strength, and not the hamstring muscle strength. Also, the knee is usually more comfortable the more it can be extended. A highly flexed leg will place more strain on most knees. The higher the seat can be raised, with or without a seat pad, and the lower the pegs can be set, without completely ruining your cornering pleasure, the straighter the leg can be kept.

If you have not been thru the above, it might be worth addressing these points at your next doctor's appointment.

Best luck at this "mini" life turning point

[RideIt]

In 2002 I traded my LT for an RT. Never was completed satisfied. Tried out 05 LT which I now own. There is no way I would go back to the RT, they are really nice bikes but the boxer engine (as good as it is) still does not compare to the LT. But, a K1200RT does sound good :rolleyes: If everthing else fails why not try out the wheels that come down at slow speed. Good Luck in your decision.
Leon

[S2DOG]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for your input on the RT. I too have had thoughts about trading the LT (in the future) for an RT with an in line 4 in it. The only difference in my decision making process that would be different now (after reading your input) would be that

"You Can Not Replace An LT"

The bike is made so well and BMW have thought of so many things I just cant come to terms to sell or trade it. So I won't. Instead, I will be looking for a short trip performance machine that I can play with.

Might I suggest that you consider the same solution? I know that it ads extra costs, but the last time I checked I had an expiration date that came with my entering this world. So, I think an extra bike may be a better solution then replacing the LT.

Just My 2 Cents... :)

[meese]

I rode the R1200RT yesterday and really disliked it... just as much as I do the R1150RT. I'm just not a fan of the boxer engine and that's all there is to it.
I had the same reactions after riding the various RTs. They just didn't feel right. The GS felt like a completely different bike, so maybe I was a little more forgiving.

The LT is meant for the open road and not for stop and go. Lots of mileage and a need for comfort and wind protection drive an LT. Drive in town with frequent stops, get a smaller more nimble bike with less wind protection and less weight.
Possibly, but many of us only have one bike, so we need something that will do it all comfortably. For 90% of my riding the LT does great, and I can't really justify a second bike for that last 10%. Besides, even on long open-road rides you still have to stop for gas, or occasionally to find a motel or restaurant, so you're gonna have to deal with slow speed riding on any bike. However, I'll be very interested in the changes to the new '07 LT, as less weight and more power are always good.

At least my knees still work as designed. :)

[ATLDB]

When I decided to "upgrade" from my sportbike teenage days (OK I am 33 and this was 3 years ago). I tried Concours, ST1100, PC800, R1100RT. Money forced me to buy a PC800, which is one of the best motorcycles I have ever owned. If only Honda would come out with a brand new 1200 or even 1800 PC type bike.

Anyway from my PC800 I upgraded to the 04 R1150RT. And sorry for been short and sweet here, but I will never again own a motorcycle that requires valve adjustment every 6K, meaning I can't take a cross country trip and not worry about the valves. The other thing is I don't care how strong the alloy is that BMW uses on their motors (I honestly think that is a sorry excuse) nothing mechanical should burn a quart of oil every 1000 miles, nothing. I had a YUGO in college and it burned NO OIL. My LT scares me because it burns NO OIL. That is my two cents on the RT. They can keep it all of them.

After that in a span on 8 months I had a DL1000 (great bike for ONE UP), had an VFR800 (great bike for ONE UP), had a Suzuki Burgman 650 scooter (wonderfull machine wish I still had it), but then the decision was made if I was going to buy another bike it will be one that does EVERYTHING GOOD.

And that ladies and gentlemen.........is the LT. No question. As its been said "You cannot replace an LT".

Now Gary, the new FJR1300 is coming with ALL the issues fixed and the initial write ups I seen on FJR's they are now very competive. But again since you have to wait on the Yamaha delivery program the new K1200GT looks promising.

Sorry for the rambling. As an previous RT owner and now a LT owner I try my best to not even get into comparison conversation.

[garyj]

Sorry for the rambling. As an previous RT owner and now a LT owner I try my best to not even get into comparison conversation.

Thanks for the input Darcy. I've decided to keep my LT up for sale and continue to gather information on what to replace it with. At this time the RT is on top of the list because of weight and the test ride did prove that my knee seems fine with it. Maybe by the time my bike sells (it's not a very good stocking stuffer) there will be something new to pick from ;-)

[bmwusmc]

Gary, have you considered removing the rear trunk? Comments here suggest that it is a different and the weight loss might be beneficial for your knee..
Hey. Petepeterson, sempr fi..good to see there are other jarheads on the LT..Just got mine in Aug, 2005 and love it..I hadn't ridden a bike in over 40 years after my first one in Japan back in '59. Rode it from Tampa to Las Vegas and had a blast after they finally fixed my hyd clutch problem..Rid safe and always check your 6..Roy

[rglassma]

Hello,

I too was curious about the RT. And, our Dealer on the east side of town (BMW of Denver) is always more then happy to let me test anything I want when I have some time. I test drove the '05 RT twice. The first time was just around town for about 20 miles. The second time was all over the Highways in Denver for about 60 miles.

I can agree with many of your observations. But, it does have a good amount of torque.. More then what I have been able to get out of the LT (at least my '03). Would I trade?? No way !!! As soon as I got back on my LT, I noticed a big difference. There is no comparison !!! It is my only bike and will probably stay that way..

Contrary to what you originally said about the Honda, you may really want to give that a try !! A buddy of mine owns one and I rode it several times before I bought my LT. It is a terrific bike!!! Very smooth (smoother then the RT) with even more power. If the bars are a problem, change them to make them a little more upright.

I am not trying to convince you to sell your LT, but, I wouldn't rule out the ST1300 until you have emperical data from personal experience. They can be had for a reasonable price second hand as well.

Good luck..

[LT05RT04]

If you should try an ST1300, pay particular attention to the amount of heat you get on your shins. Honda swears the bike has no heat-management issues, but my wife will tell you otherwise. She too had a PC800, then when to an ST1300 because she wanted more power (yeah, I'm a lucky guy!). After a year and only 4K miles, she couldn't stand the ST1300 because of the heat and some odd ergo issues. She bought an '04 RT two years ago after riding it and a K1200 GT. She just sold her '04 RT in anticipation of either an '06 RT or the alledged new GT that's coming out - but she loved everything about her RT except for the lack of cruise control, and therefore loves everything about the R1200 RT.

I've ridden the new RT and it's a nice bike, but it's no LT. If you want something lighter, it's great, but the buzz is not for me.

[JCarver]

I rode the RT and RS, did not care for the RS. But the RT, well that is a totally different story. Loved the ergonomics, the handling, the power, and it's nimbliness, but I cannot get used to two cylinders. I've had 4 cylinder bikes since 71, can't change this late in the game. But if you can handle it, great machine. I agree it has some low rpm vibration issues, but those dissapear as you pick up speed. At 70+ you don't notice it is a two cylinder as much. If I wanted a lighter bike it would be for the slower speeds and city traffic and now we are back to my need for 4 cylinders.

[fltclark]

I guess I'm one of the LT owners that has switched and am completely satisfied. I had a 99 LT that I put 80,000 miles on in a little over 2 years, doing all types of riding. I decided that I wanted a lighter touring bike, so bought an 05 FJR. I did a lot of farkles trying to get it comfortable for me. I have just sold it after 13 mos and 25, 000 miles. Three weeks ago I did a 200 mile demo ride on an RT and bought one when I got back to the dealer. I have since put about 2500 miles on it and it is an amazing bike. It is comfortable and fast, about all that I can ask in a bike. I don't think I'll go back to a heavy bike and most of my riding is touring. May work up to a trike someday!

fletcher clark
06 R1200RT
99 R1100GS
01 SV650S
00 KL650

[Brucev]

Really sorry to hear the LT is hard on your knees. I have about 2500 miles on my RT and I love it. I ride it 22 miles to work each way and the light weight really is nice. The RT is by far the best bike I have ridden to date and I have had a few, but this is my first BMW. That said, I suspect I will be wanting an LT as my next bike. That comfort on a long ride is priceless. Before buying an RT you may want to consider the ride position of your legs and knees. Mine get a bit cramped after about thirty minutes or so. There just isn't the room of an LT.

[garyj]

Gary, have you considered removing the rear trunk? Comments here suggest that it is a different and the weight loss might be beneficial for your knee..
Hey. Petepeterson, sempr fi..good to see there are other jarheads on the LT..Just got mine in Aug, 2005 and love it..I hadn't ridden a bike in over 40 years after my first one in Japan back in '59. Rode it from Tampa to Las Vegas and had a blast after they finally fixed my hyd clutch problem..Rid safe and always check your 6..Roy

Hi Roy,

Yes, I did that. I put the Ft Worth rack on. You can see the bike on this forum on the CLASSIFIEDS with the box off. The bike handles better with the box off as well.

[bmwusmc]

Hey, Gary, thx for the reply..Yeah, I've put some thought into removing the trunk but I love the extra storage..that's one of the reasons I bought the LT..that and the exceptional handling ability of the bike in turns..Ride safe..

[Pneff]

Hi All,

I just sold my 02 LT. Had 40K on it. I loved the bike... up until this year. I went on an Edelweiss Tour in Italy and rode a new RT. I did the Alps and the expressways. Rode the bike for two weeks. At first I liked the RT, but wasn't crazy about it. By the end of the two weeks I was rally in love with it. Besides all the fun on the passes, I remember the day I had to return the bike and was enjoying the nice thumping vibes of mid range cruising. It was as if the machine had a heart beat.
Then after my return to Calif I was riding up in the wine country of Napa Valley. I was just cruising along a nice semi curvaceous road and had the feeling that this was actually boring. I felt shame, depression and guilt, but the LT sold in two days on Craig's List.
Now I'm waiting until I return from Hawaii after Xmas and I'll be purchasing a new RT. I can't wait.
Just one riders feelings, but keep in mind that boredom factor and that pleasant thumping pulse of the RT

[Robin]

Hi, folks,
I was contemplating an FJR this fall, a 2006 actually, when my wife and I went to Bob's BMW and she sat on a 2002 LTE. She said "This is the bike!".
So I bought it and I love it.
HOWEVER, it's been in the shop for two weeks with some COMM issues and I've been riding the loaner bikes (primarily the R1150R and the R1200RT) and I can tell you that the boxers are a lot of fun and they DO have a heartbeat and they DON'T have the wind protection of the LT. The FJR ('06) is the bike I would choose if I couldn't have the LT. With the new design changes for '06 the FJR has the comfort and the longevity for any thing and they have a whole lot more power than the LT, and a gas tank that's just a scooch bigger. It doesn't come with a trunk or cruisecontrol, but they can be added.

Robin

[jeffdean]

Different strokes for different folks.

I have had two K1200LTs. A great bike once it is moving. There is a lot to love about the LT. Most especially for passengers.

But for me, the R1200RT is the finest street motorcycle ever made -- except for its appearance. The '04 R1150RT is better looking by a good bit. I wish BMW had put the R1200RT hardware in the R1150RT fairing.

http://bmwdean.home.att.net/r1200rt.htm

[AZrider]

I posted a new thread asking for opinions on the R1200RT. I own an R1150R that I bought two years ago. I was in for the 12K service and rode the RT. I thought the bike was quick, lighter than I thought and pretty nimble in the corners. Overall it jumped to pass cars on the I-10 highway at speeds around 80mph, no problem. The transmission was smooth and much crisper than my 1150. Still, there was something that I just couldn't put my finger on.........

When I came back from my test ride on the 1150 I was smiling and asked when could I get one. When I test rode the K1200S the smile on my face was permanent for about two days. Really scary for my wife. :)

I'm trying to figure out why I didn't have the same reaction....there's nothing wrong with the bike (IMHO). But is just doesn't light my fire?

Any comments?

[LarryR]

Jeez, I love my new RT and can put all the goodies on it just like the LT. After the first 300-400 miles, that sucker lights my fire every time I climb on it. No, it is not an LT. Yes, it is a baby LT and I have come to dearly love it. It doesn't really "light your fire" until you have ridden it for several hundred miles. Then it becomes part of the family.

[rlv]

Been thinking about a lighter bike for running around town also.
Love the looks of the 1150 rt. Hate the looks of the 1200 rt. Looks like something was left off of the front end on the 1200. The 1150 reminds me of the 72 cst chev shortbed pickup truck, beautiful styling. I cant find that styling on th 1200. For anyone who has owned both of these bikes for a good period of time, what is the difference between the two, and would you like to go back to the 1150, and for what reasons.
Thanks
richard

[KMC1]

Just for the sake of offering an observation, why not check out a Triumph Rocket? They have a windscreen and bags etc. and it's a really comfy bike. I keep thinking about getting one as a backup bike to the LT, but I think I'm holding out for either a new Guzzi or an old Airhead (Yeah, I know.. NOT the exactly the same things).
Or a Tiger with the bags and a Givi top case? That's a REALLY fun bike with light on it's wheels weight, you may really like one of those for moderate touring.

Just a thought.

[BeemerDude]

My new RT is great! Not a one for one replacement for the 02 LT I traded. However, the RT ergos will provide my 5' 10' body with the comfort, nimbleness and torque I require. All without an additonal 200+ lbs...

[bimmers]

Of course the RT is not a lounge chair with TV and bar but it is a fun bike to throw around the twisties while being good at getting there as well. Some like the mother some the daughter and I would call the boxer the daughter and the K the mother. After 6000rpm the boxer really gets going. I should not bash the K cause it is a fine and smooth engine and the new K1200GT is probably awsome, have not tried it yet. Anyway always take yr time and try all options, even the enemy ones (japs) HD is a cult so that is an entirely different story.
I love my 1200RT and plan to stay with it (until I try the GT and get converted)

They are all good w/ or w/o TV......... :D

h

[Rolling]

I have a 05, RT with 7100 miles on it. The more I ride it the more I love the cycle. Looked at a K1200S. I feel the RT is one of the best all around bikes you can buy. The RT does everything well. I am in the process of getting it painted Black.
CW, Chicago

[LTsaddledance]

I feel the RT is one of the best all around bikes you can buy. The RT does everything well. I am in the process of getting it painted Black.
CW, Chicago

I agree. I find it a great bike, quick, manuverable, just plain fun to ride and was one of the best looking motorcycles ever built until they made the 1200 version.
I admit though that I still prefer the LT when it comes to long distance stuff.
I can't wait to compare both to the new GT if the local dealer can ever keep one in stock more than 5 minutes.

[quaintance]

With all the excitement about the RT I expected more defenders to respond. I'm surprised.

I'm new to BMW's.. the R12RT being my first introduction to the brand... before now I've ridden Triumph's Sprint ST, Kawasaki Z1k, Duc Monsters.... sporty.. naked.. did i mention sporty? but little else, the Sprint ST's idea of wind protection is that all the bugs are deflected off the fairing right into your face mask.

I gotta say, the RT is by far my favorite bike.. but I'm coming from an entirely different perspective than you LT riders.. I used to ride my Sprint ST all over the place, 800 miles in a day.. 400 in the mountains.. I loved it.. but for two up riding it wasnt nearly as fun, the wife really didnt enjoy the seating position at all for anything more than quick runs to the movie theater, and after a long days ride my shoulders would be killing me.

We sat on an RT and she was instantly impressed... and then I rode it around for a bit and just fell in love, it handles well, its reasonably light and I can still run through the mountains and keep the pace I want.. not to mention feeling much better after putting an entire day of mountain riding behind me.

I came from little luxury bikes to the medium luxury RT and love it for its compromise of handling and comfort.. now, the wife see's those LT's and goes why dont we have one of those.. and I say because I'm not old enough yet. :D

seriously though, the boxer engine took a lot of getting used to for me.. as did the gearbox... but for now shes the best bike i've had...

[Billy]

I have a bad hip and the weight of the LT bothered me. I removed the topcase and only put in 4 gallons of gas instead of 6. It made a tremendous difference. It's still heavy but feels much lighter and the handling is definitely better. It's not as light as the RT but for now it works for me. I do hate the poor slow speed handling but I guess it's a trade off because I like everything else about the LT.