Rider magazine bags the GT

[2002redrider]

In the just released December Rider was a comparo that many of us have been waiting for, putting the new Kawasaki C14 and the GT in a head to head along with a couple other "pretenders to the throne". The other bikes included were the Honda ST1300 and Yamahamer FJR 1300.

So I'm reading this article to see how close it is between the GT and C14. It wasn't. Maybe it was. You know the typical magazine article disclaimer drivel, "there are no losers in this group, they are all great". At any case, much to my surprise, the GT ended up in the hind teat position, fourth out of four. In order they were:
1) Honda ST1300
2) FJR 1300
3) Concourse 14
4) BMW GT (lack of front end feedback, overly sensitive brakes,a rough transmission, and noticeable driveline lash, espically for a bike costing at least $5000 more than the competition). They loved the engine, heated seats and grips, and ESA.

I guess you have to drink a little of the Kool-Aid if you want to own the Roundel. Read the article. Rider is usually a good magazine and worth the 4 bucks.

Mike

[Caper11]

In the just released December Rider was a comparo that many of us have been waiting for, putting the new Kawasaki C14 and the GT in a head to head along with a couple other "pretenders to the throne". The other bikes included were the Honda ST1300 and Yamahamer FJR 1300.

So I'm reading this article to see how close it is between the GT and C14. It wasn't. Maybe it was. You know the typical magazine article disclaimer drivel, "there are no losers in this group, they are all great". At any case, much to my surprise, the GT ended up in the hind teat position, fourth out of four. In order they were:
1) Honda ST1300
2) FJR 1300
3) Concourse 14
4) BMW GT (lack of front end feedback, overly sensitive brakes,a rough transmission, and noticeable driveline lash, espically for a bike costing at least $5000 more than the competition). They loved the engine, heated seats and grips, and ESA.

I guess you have to drink a little of the Kool-Aid if you want to own the Roundel. Read the article. Rider is usually a good magazine and worth the 4 bucks.

Mike

I was reading an article in a magazine in Chapters last week. Browsing through bike magazines, there was an article which compared these bikes. The editor quoted that out of all the high performance touring bikes the GT was number one and set the standard for all the others. Can't remember what magazine it was.
:dance:

[DavidTaylor]

Still it's just their opinion. I've had a subscription to Rider for years (Motorcyclist, CycleWorld, and the AMA and BMWMOA rags as well) and they tend to be good for their target market. I don't think they have the same level of talent in staff as the others to really push bikes to their limits, but then again that's not really their focus. The fact that the ST1300 came in 1st should speak volumes about where their focus is; that bike has the mellowest power delivery and softest suspension of the bunch, and probably handles hard riding in the twisties the worst. The FJR will swallow it whole in a hardcore run through the mountains, but the Concours will outpower both of them by a mile (leaving the GT out on purpose).

What the hell, I do like Kool-Aid. :D

[grifscoots]

They used the FJRA, which won't swallow anything whole.

Doug rode a demo C-14 at the IMS in Houston, Saturday. Remember, he had an original Connie (RIP deer strike) and an LT. He bought a GT. Anyway, his opinion was the C-14 would not outrun a GT and corners extremely hard. He said he had to literally force it thru corners. Of course, after riding a GT, you just think the corner and you own it.

[KYchris02]

1) Honda ST1300
2) FJR 1300
3) Concourse 14
4) BMW GT

Ouch.

[petevandyke]

I want to borrow a GT for a weekend, will trade my 300C hemi with cold air induction and cat-back pipes (405 hp and a growl that sets off car alarms at WOT) if you promise to leave some rear tire tread on it...

[meese]

That's just one opinion. But isn't it funny that the articles that support our views are touted as accurate while those that disagree are discredited? :)

My GT handles just fine in the fast corners and the tight stuff. The brakes are simply awesome, with as much power as my Integral-ABS LT but much better control. The tranny takes a little finesse to operate smoothly, like most BMWs, but I don't feel any drive line lash.

And they always point out the GT's price disparity. But we all know that already, and if cost was the only factor we'd all still be riding the original Concours. :)

Now if you want a real world comparison by guys who have to spend their own cash instead of paid riders on free bikes, then read this (http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?p=117571).

[Xavier6162]

I have yet to make a decision on my next bike. I’m coming from the outside looking in. I’ve spend time on ST1300 Forums, FJR1300 Forums and two BMW forums. I’ve tested each of the bikes with the exception of the C-14. I have not read that magazine article mention at the start of this thread.

When I ignored brand loyalty (minds towards BMW), facts and spec sheets, other’s opinions, third party views and based my review solely on a test ride, I placed the bikes in the same order. But that’s just an unbiased opinion from someone who owns neither. Despite it’s ranking, I’m still in the research mode and have not ruled out the GT.

[scout70]

I work for a city here in Washington state that recently was described as one of the countries "most livible cities." There is great incentive for cities to get good press to draw new residents and business and cities pay and politic to get this type of press. Unfortunately, the same city, according to the fall 2006 FBI crime statistics--which are reported by the local police chief--rated the city one of the top three "most dangerous" in the state and higher nationally.

So what is my point? Rider magazine makes its money from advertising and sales. The manufactures court favorable press and money and politics often win out over true objective analysis.

I am not saying that the GT should be number one. I am saying that one needs to take these articles with a grain of salt. Most BMW riders are older, have higher education and have all the faculties to be smarter than some other folks.

If you are like me, you test drive the bikes, read up on multiple reviews and get input from a variety of reliable sources, not necessarily Rider(show me the money) magazine.

I would suggest that in the critical areas--engine, braking, suspension, rider confidence and loyalty--BMW is number one.

Ask yourself, if me and my passenger were involved in an accident (or avoided an accident) and the injuries were due to less than state of the art braking or suspension, would I have gladly paid the $5,000.00 difference to get a better product? I bet you would. Don't settle for a cheap imitation.


Scout


2007 GT
2007 R1200S
2004 RT

[meese]

I have yet to make a decision on my next bike.In the end, you gotta ride what makes you happy. Most of us here do. :)

[dwsdad]

Here's a review I posted on the COG site about my test ride:

-------------------

at the Houston Cycle Show. Some you know I bought an '06 GT, so I wanted to try the C14 to see how it compares to the GT. Here's my opinions (note the word opinion). For reference, I now have 17.5K on my GT I bought used in Jun with 10K on the clock. I have not had the EWS or final drive issues you hear so much about. And I had no issues with my '99 LT the 2yrs (and 32K miles) I had it.

Windshield - I now see what y'all have been talking about. I give the edge here to the GT.

Mirrors - yep, only about 2/3 useful. And too low. Edge GT. The mirrors are higher and unobstructed.

Motor - This is pretty doggone close. I think they are both smooth and plenty powerful. Which is stronger? Really hard to tell - they are that close. I think the GT will leave the C14 in the dust in a top gear rollon though.

Transmission - Have to give the edge to the C14 here. Man, that thing shifts so smooth. Now, that being said, there is a trick to shifting the big Beemer - preload the shifter and flick the clutch. She'll almost shift as smooth as the C14.

Brakes - Another close call. I've gotten used to the servo assist brakes on the GT, but I remember when I first got it I was damn near slapping my head on the dash. But I did notice the rear brake on the C14 was (or seemed) really weak. BTW, all the demo C14s were ABS, as is the GT. The GT brakes are linked (front to rear only), so when I say the GT rear brake is better, keep in mind the rear pedal applies only the rear brake on the GT. And yes, I love the linked brakes on the GT.

Throttle response - Edge C14. When I first got the GT, I was really bad on the throttle, but like most things I've learned how to work it better.

Handling - this was the biggest surprise and disappointment. I felt like I really had to muscle the C14 through the corners. I really expected something else. I know the magazines complain about no feel in the frontend of the BMWs, but my GT will just about turn just by thinking about it. A friend that rides a Star 1300 said the same thing after riding the Connie - fighting it in a corner. I also heard the same thing was said by some at the National.

ergos - Totally subjective. I had no issue with the C14, but I do like having a builtin option to adjust the GT bars in any of 6 positions, giving me about a 2" adjustment range.

Seat - hands down edge to the C14. That stock GT seat just flat sucks! Although the '07 GTs have a new seat design that I hear is much better.

Suspension - Gotta go with the GT here, sorry. Although the C14 has a good suspension, you just can't beat that ESA on the Beemer.

Misc - to me, the Connie seems smaller than the GT, which if true would mean the GT would make a better 2 up bike. Maybe it's because I'm just used to the GT. I do not like the rear pegs on the C14 - too small & too high. But since I ride solo most of the time, that's not that big a thing. The "glovebox" on the bike I rode was loose, but given these are demo bikes, that maybe be understandable.

So, the big question: Would I buy a C14? If I had not ridden the GT, the C14 is a great bike, but for me (remember the opinion above?) there are too many intangibles that make the GT a better choice for me. I just looked at the Rider review of the 4 Sport Tourers, and the specs on each. Bigger payload, bigger tank, better fuel economy (yeah, like that's real accurate), and more powerful alternator output. Part of the intangibles.

I did not write this to slam the C14 or praise the GT. I just thought y'all would like hear what I hope is an objective comparison of the 2.

[Xavier6162]

I know what you mean. I’m desperately trying to find a reason not to exclude the GT. So I don’t want to read that review. I get enough constructive criticism from former GT owners. I really want a BMW. No,….really, really want one for all the reasons mentioned earlier and I’m willing to make the extra $5K plus just for the chance to do so.

I don’t like seeing threads like this just as I don’t like see threads comparing two BMWs with negative comments from either side of the fence. But quite frankly, the GT frightens me. The FJR and ST didn’t. Then again…I use to own a Burgman 650 and that 650lb scooter frighten me also.

I don’t think the ST should have been in the study. At least not without also including the RT. Since I’m at the comfort side of my life, the RT is a strong possibility…though I have yet to test ride one.

What to do….what to do…..and this threads helps not. Kinda makes me take another look at the V-storm and GS.

[tkramer]

1) Honda ST1300
2) FJR 1300
3) Concourse 14
4) BMW GT (lack of front end feedback, overly sensitive brakes,a rough transmission, and noticeable driveline lash, espically for a bike costing at least $5000 more than the competition). They loved the engine, heated seats and grips, and ESA.



A few things I get from this review (I read it last night):

It sounds like they got a hold of a '06 GT with the servo assisted brakes. Didn't BMW discontinue servo assisted brakes for 2007 onward? Which then begs the question: Why aren't they testing the latest year model? Is BMW NA responsible for supplying bikes to journalists? I don't know, just asking.

Other than the stats sheet, there's no mention of the prodigious alternator output of the GT. Almost 1 kilowatts! I'm going from memory as I don't have the magazine in front of me, but the closest any of the others came was ~600w. 600w may be plenty, but more is better in this case. They were keen enough to comment on the range of each bike. Good on 'em there.

Overall, I generally find these >2 bike "shootout" articles wanting for any sense of objectivity. It seems more an opportunity go get a bunch of bikes in the same place for a photo shoot. Playing musical bikes for two days hardly gives a rider time to settle in and learn and contemplate the pro's and cons of a machine, especially in this category. Heck, even Joe (Messenger13), the rabidest of the rabid GT fanboys, claimed it took a good two weeks and few thousand miles to appreciate all that the GT has to offer.

I also think sticker shock contributes to the lower placing of the GT (lo, all BMWs) in these comparos. These are guys who probably don't make a lot of dough, (they get to ride and write about motorbikes for a living, so you won't hear violin strains from my corner). Even when pressed with the "money's no object" clause, they're still probably very budget minded.

At least they didn't harp on the BMWs "awkward" turn signal switching. :rolleyes:

They used the FJRA, which won't swallow anything whole.

Why would that be? :confused:

[grifscoots]

Why would that be? :confused:The FJR-A is the "automatic" transmission. It doesn't have the grunt of a clutch model.

[dwsdad]

I forgot to mention the heat issue on the Connie. It is very real. It was low 70's when we were out riding at 9:15am, and I could feel my right leg toasting at long stop lights.

Take a good look at the C14. Look at the passenger pegs - their size and location. Then try to envision your spousal unit perched upon those pegs for any distance.

I have to agree with the musical bike thing the writers do. It does take a while to adjust or learn a new bike - any new bike. Let's see if they do a long term test on the GT and on the Connie.

[bmwhd]

The FJR-A is the "automatic" transmission. It doesn't have the grunt of a clutch model.

The auto clutch is the FJR1300AE Grif. The Rider article tested the plain old FJR1300A which has a standard clutch.

FWIW, I found the article spot on regarding the FJR. Their complaints were mine too except that they fail to mention that the one thing that kept the FJR out of 1st (stiff throttle) is a 30 min, 0$ fix. However they do mention Yamaha addressed it for '08.

Now if you really want to gnash your teeth, consider the recent ECU recall discussed recently on the FJR sites: From problem identification by the forum members to free ECU swap by Yamaha in under 6 months! That includes the usual "it's not a problem" phase by the dealers and factory.

I'd settle for 6 years elapsed time out of BMW on the final drive issues...oh wait...too late :histerica

[ronk1200lt]

It is always interesting to read comparo's because they do give you an idea of a bike's strength's and weaknesses. However, I have always bought bike's that worked the best for me. That came from actually taking them out and riding them and then basing a decision on my own needs and preferences. Very seldom have I ever owned a bike that was ranked #1 in a comparison test. I would suspect that members of this community ride big miles, where most testers for bike magazines are biased to the shorter distance sport side of riding. What would be great for them would be a non-starter for me.

[tmgs]

<snip>
I did not write this to slam the C14 or praise the GT. I just thought y'all would like hear what I hope is an objective comparison of the 2.[/color][/size][/font]

that was a nice write up, I have the same issue when I finaly get to demo a C14, I will be comparing it to the K12GT.
I don't like the Fjr, nor am I crazy about the ST1300,
but the st would be the other choice if C-14 is out of question.

after ridng the gt several times now, it will be a hard sell to buy the C14.

[supersonic]

:thumb: Posted by Scout70
Don't settle for a cheap imitation :thumb:

:yeah: :yeah: :dance: :dance: :yeah: :yeah:

[Mike_H]

Who cares what Rider magazine thinks? They say the ST1300 won their comparo; last month it placed last in a different magazine's comparo. So what?

Ride what you like, subscribe to RoadRunner and all will be well.

[Xavier6162]

I just got back from the local dealer to have a look at the C-14. Very nice looking bike in person. Much better looking than the ST1300 and FJR. A really sweet looking bike. Close to the RT in beauty. They had two. Both for $13,999….pulse prep $2743..???..pluse Freight…????? $2,4XX ($20,500 plus tax and first male child). That’s about $6,500 over MSRP which puts it at or higher than the GT in price. And it doesn’t even have all the other necessary goodies.


Edit: Just found it at OTD Motorsports for $12,999 out the door.

[bmwhd]

I just got back from the local dealer to have a look at the C-14. Very nice looking bike in person. Much better looking than the ST1300 and FJR. A really sweet looking bike. Close to the RT in beauty.


:histerica :histerica :histerica

Purely subjective opinions like this are what make the world go 'round and keep the OEMs happy. I think the RT looks like ass and the C14 is not far behind in the fugly department. If we're having a beauty contest, the FJR wins that hands down and walkin' away :)

[2002redrider]

They will probably sit on the show room floor for a long time with $2700 set up plus freight thrown in. It is getting cold in most locations and I bet they can be had for MSRP out the door with no add on charges in many locations, if you want one.

Remember the BMW 850 (car), the Porsche Boxster, and to a lesser extent the Mazda Miata when they first came out? Big add on charges with the extra window sticker boasting $5,000-15,000 as additional dealer profit. Some called it a Market Value Adjustment but that's pretty bold no matter what they call it. Within 6 months to a year they were all selling at MSRP.

[Xavier6162]

:histerica :histerica :histerica

Purely subjective opinions like this are what make the world go 'round and keep the OEMs happy. I think the RT looks like ass and the C14 is not far behind in the fugly department. If we're having a beauty contest, the FJR wins that hands down and walkin' away :)

M.Smith Motorsports in Riverside California. Had the GT, FJR, ST adn RT line right next to each other. Wife picked the RT as the buety. The FJR was last. Go figure. To me it was also.

[GT-1]

M.Smith Motorsports in Riverside California. Had the GT, FJR, ST adn RT line right next to each other. Wife picked the RT as the buety. The FJR was last. Go figure. To me it was also.
Was your wife viewing the front or back ends. I know my wife always judges the back end view first.

[messenger13]

This article was the last straw for me. Early next Spring, I will be selling my '06 GT for another motorcycle/brand . . . probably the Connie.

[sfarson]

I just got back from the local dealer to have a look at the C-14. Very nice looking bike in person. Much better looking than the ST1300 and FJR. A really sweet looking bike. Close to the RT in beauty. They had two. Both for $13,999….pulse prep $2743..???..pluse Freight…????? $2,4XX ($20,500 plus tax and first male child). That’s about $6,500 over MSRP which puts it at or higher than the GT in price. And it doesn’t even have all the other necessary goodies.


Edit: Just found it at OTD Motorsports for $12,999 out the door.

While subjective and biased, do believe the RT is a looker. And FWIW, BIKE (UK) compared the RT, ST, FJR and KGT in a comparo last winter...

#1 - RT
#2 - ST
#3 - FJR
#4 - KGT

Still, would get the GT before the ST and FJR. But the RT is the best. Seriously :).

[Florian]

This article was the last straw for me. Early next Spring, I will be selling my '06 GT for another motorcycle/brand . . . probably the Connie.

now that there is funny....


F

[meese]

This article was the last straw for me. Early next Spring, I will be selling my '06 GT for another motorcycle/brand . . . probably the Connie.So you'll have 100K on the GT by then? That's usually when I get bored and start looking for a new bike. :)

[meese]

But the RT is the best. Seriously :).I disagree. Every time I ride an RT I think "this is a fine bike, but it just doesn't feel right." Guess I'm just an inline-4 kinda rider. Good thing we all have lots of choices. :)

[Xavier6162]

Was your wife viewing the front or back ends. I know my wife always judges the back end view first.

She was looking from all sides. She thought the ST was a giant scooter. It does look like one. But she liked the build quality. It is a nice bike. She also liked the GT but couldn’t get comfortable on it, though she did sit on it for about five minutes. She didn’t care for the FJR. Up close and parked between the ST and GT gave it the looks of a cheaply made bike. She turned her nose up at it and said I'd better get a Harley before that thing (FJR). WHen you see the bikes side by side, you notice that the build quality was no where near the ST or GT.

She fell in love with the RT. Spent about 20 minutes sitting on the bike (center stand) while conversation with the sales rep while I was checking out the GT...and ingoring them both. In fact she hopes I get the RT. She wasn’t interested in any bike until she saw and sat on the RT. I kept pointing at the GT and asking, What about this one". She'd just roll her eyes and kept commenting how comfortable the RT was. Both BMWs and the Honda were a comfort to look at after just coming from the Harley Dealer from across the street.

[hoog62]

I disagree. Every time I ride an RT I think "this is a fine bike, but it just doesn't feel right." Guess I'm just an inline-4 kinda rider. Good thing we all have lots of choices. :)

I had an ST1100 before the LT, great bike, boring as hell. The day we traded up, our salesman let us take his 1150RT to lunch. Gail and both said the exact same thing; the bike just didn't feel right. Couldn't put my finger on anything in particular, just didn't feel right. I do like what they did with the 1200RT, but have yet to ride one. Maybe this weekend...

[tmgs]

Now if you really want to gnash your teeth, consider the recent ECU recall discussed recently on the FJR sites: From problem identification by the forum members to free ECU swap by Yamaha in under 6 months! That includes the usual "it's not a problem" phase by the dealers and factory.





I'd settle for 6 years elapsed time out of BMW on the final drive issues...oh wait...too late :histerica

your bad!
funny though. (added 10+ letters just so the MB would allow a reply)

[Bails]

Latest Australian Motorcycle News Magazine compared the Connie( Called the GT also in Australia ) to the K1200 GT. Said the GT was faster in Roll on acceleration, better handling, better Fuel, Much Better in all respects except price. Now I don't own a KGT yet so I'm not biased.

[bmwhd]

.... When you see the bikes side by side, you notice that the build quality was no where near the ST or GT...

That's another one I hear once in a while and just don't get. Having owned BMWs too, I don't see the FJR as giving up anything on build quality at all. Fit, finish, components, they're all first rate. But then again, I guess you should judge this quality of a bike by how often it leaves you stranded...with say the rear end puking oil...or the oh-so-smart ignition refusing to start the bike...or... ;)

[tmgs]

That's another one I hear once in a while and just don't get. Having owned BMWs too, I don't see the FJR as giving up anything on build quality at all. Fit, finish, components, they're all first rate. But then again, I guess you should judge this quality of a bike by how often it leaves you stranded...with say the rear end puking oil...or the oh-so-smart ignition refusing to start the bike...or... ;)

ya know i was going to make some positive BMW comments on this post, but I can't.

[grifscoots]

ya know i was going to make some positive BMW comments on this post, but I can't.I like the roundel :D

[tmgs]

I like the roundel :D

I like the folks. well most of em, that grif guy well we just ain;t sure about him

<sfsf>

[RLM]

If you are really interested in buying this bike C 14 go on Ebay, they are there below list brand new from dealers in Ohio and Texas. I just today viewed an ABS equipped bike for $12,019.00 excluding tax. That is the buy it now price brand new!

[BlackBMW]

Just read the Japanese Sport Touring comparo in Motorcycle Consumer News (MCN). They picked the FJR first, ST1300 second and C14 third.

They really came down hard on the Connie in the article too. I'm sure they are all riled up on the C-14 sites...

Opinions, opinions, opinions....

Everyone's got one.

Did I mention that I love my GT?

[messenger13]

I disagree. Every time I ride an RT I think "this is a fine bike, but it just doesn't feel right." Guess I'm just an inline-4 kinda rider. Good thing we all have lots of choices. :)


I had an ST1100 before the LT, great bike, boring as hell. The day we traded up, our salesman let us take his 1150RT to lunch. Gail and both said the exact same thing; the bike just didn't feel right. Couldn't put my finger on anything in particular, just didn't feel right. I do like what they did with the 1200RT, but have yet to ride one. Maybe this weekend...

Me too. Even the 1200 just doesn't make me do that grin thang. The only Boxer I'd buy is installed into a GS.

[Bails]

The Australian Motorcycle news did comparison with the Connie,Called the GT in Australia, and the K1200 GT. They said the KGT was better in roll on acceleration,fuel efficiency, Handling,stopping ,everything. The did say they'd buy the Kawa for price, but if price were no object they all wanted the BM.
I'm currently looking for a sports tourer and have discounted the Connie, has anyone considered what a roadside removal of the rear wheel would be like on a Connie ? I 'm now torn between the GT and the S and am thinking at this stage in my life the GT will get the nod.

[bobcopro]

I think the GT always suffers in these comparisons due to the fact that they weight cost so heavily. It is several thousand more than the competition. The problem, which many mention, is that you can't get the features (heated seats and grips, electronic suspension, etc) on the others at any cost. When I was having the airbox trouble on mine I was seriously looking at the others, but the features just don't exist, at any price. They fixed my GT, so it's at the top of the heap again. As far as performance, it will out perform almost any of the riders who own one. I got spanked on an extremely twisty road by a 250 Ninja, cause the rider was just plain that good!