Motorcyclist Comparo of the Concours--what, no GT???

[petevandyke]

Just got the new Motorcyclist Magazine, haven't read the article yet, but I am guessin' there are gonna' be some interesting comments on this forum because in their "sport touring super-duper answer it all comparo" they chose the new concours, the honda st 1300, the Yamaha fjr, and...wait for it...the BMW....wait for it.....R1200RT.

OK, I'll be the first, even though I still haven't had the pleasure of riding one yet, to say it...

"Yeah, they didn't test the K-GT because it's actually IN the same category as the Concours and that would make for a fair comparo, and highlight what's missing on the Connie."


When you get a copy, read the opening editorial, too. If you're a regular reader, cro-magnon man Brian Catterson, the Editor, is actually MARRIED to Angie Loy (the gorgeous sportbike rider/former website editor/writer) and writes about how his marriage was falling apart, so he took his first vacation in three years. Not with her, but to ride motorcycles. That's like me taking a vacation to have medical tests.

Just if you needed more reason to think Motorcyclist is slipping a little...


Cheers, all...and for those of you who own GT's....remember, "breathe in.....breathe out....."


Pete

[dwsdad]

Yeah, I read that article too and was surprised they picked the RT over the GT. Maybe it was the price thing, who knows?

But really, as nice as the RT is, there's no way it would stand a snowball's chance against the C14 and the FJR. The RT just doesn't have the grunt.

It doesn't really matter anyway. They would have shot down the GT simply on price.

[2002redrider]

"It doesn't really matter anyway. They would have shot down the GT simply on price."

Maybe, maybe not. It would have been great to see the GT in the hunt but hasn't Kawasaki been running those double page ads for the C14 recently in all the mags ? Do you think there is a positive correlation between ad dollars and favorable reviews? Not dissing the C14 as it appears to be a super package for less than 70% of the cost of the GT.

Rider or MCN or some other cycle rag will put them head to head very soon.

[motoguy128]

Here's what I don't get... BMW's are always more expensive. But all of us here understand and accept that it's a premium machine, yet the magazine don't seem to give it enough credit for that. I suppose the problem, is there isn't a Lexus, Mercedes, or Acura motorcycle for it to compete against. They are all cheaper, and less refined machines... with excellent powerplants... but not the soul of a boxer.

They forget to mention in the test, that the "as tested weight" of the RT is 50-100lbs lighter than the other 3 bikes even with extra fuel capacity and keeps up fairly well despite having the smallest motor and only a 8000RPM redline.

Compare the torque curves under 8000RPM of the 3 bikes, and factor in the weight of the bike, and it's not until around 7000RPM that the RT starts to fall behind.

[Matt]

Just if you needed more reason to think Motorcyclist is slipping a little...
Pete

I think Motorcyclist has been slipping since the 90's. Why I haven't subscribed since 1998.

Another item they just can't seem to get past is the turn signal switch gear. No matter what rag is doing the testing they always bash the set up. Yet, now, whenever I ride anything other than a Beemer the single switch turn signals seem so odd.

And the Connie is a lot less expensive than the RT or GT. But then it doesn't have ABS, electronic cruise control, electrically adjusted windscreen, heated grips, heated seat.........

[CalLT]

Another item they just can't seem to get past is the turn signal switch gear. No matter what rag is doing the testing they always bash the set up. Yet, now, whenever I ride anything other than a Beemer the single switch turn signals seem so odd.

I can't get past it either. It is awkward as hell, and every single moto company throughout the world has standardized on a different setup. BMW will probably never change, and therein lies the arrogance that drives many of us crazy.

[ATLDB]

"It doesn't really matter anyway. They would have shot down the GT simply on price."

Maybe, maybe not. It would have been great to see the GT in the hunt but hasn't Kawasaki been running those double page ads for the C14 recently in all the mags ? Do you think there is a positive correlation between ad dollars and favorable reviews? Not dissing the C14 as it appears to be a super package for less than 70% of the cost of the GT.

Rider or MCN or some other cycle rag will put them head to head very soon.

I am with RedRider, Kawa has sure spend lots of $$$$ on advertizing the Connie, Motorcyclist is actually one of the mags where DOUBLE pages are been used. Don't know how the advertisement group would feel if the riding and testing group would shoot it down.

Now should they shoot it down.... Well I have actually had the pleasure of riding the new Connie, good friend of mine works for a shop and let me take one out, the bike eventually became HIS so that is why I think he let me out. Is it nice?, sure, is it powerfull? dang sure, does it sound good?, yes, is it confortable? absolutely, does is look good?, yes as a matter of fact on the looks department to me it looks better than a GT. I am not a huge fan of the angles on the new GT and the Pinguin snout but...... Should the RT been put in the mix, nah, not the same machine as the others.

would I stilll buy a GT OVER the Connie?. HELLL YESSS.

As far as the magazine is concerned, I don't like them, never have, they are Ducatistas there, so Ducatis will always win any comparo, even if they are NOT in the comparo..... LOL

I have been receiving emails from Rider, asking them to help with Cover Design, I recently review their December cover and its a comparo between FJR, ST, GT and Connie

[buffgunner]

I think Motorcyclist has been slipping since the 90's. Why I haven't subscribed since 1998.

Another item they just can't seem to get past is the turn signal switch gear. No matter what rag is doing the testing they always bash the set up. Yet, now, whenever I ride anything other than a Beemer the single switch turn signals seem so odd.

And the Connie is a lot less expensive than the RT or GT. But then it doesn't have ABS, electronic cruise control, electrically adjusted windscreen, heated grips, heated seat.........Just a couple of points here. The C-14 is available with ABS - mine has it. It also has an electrically adjustable windshield. The grips and seat would have been nice from the factory, but can be added.

There seems to be a lot of bashing of the magazine for selecting the C-14 - I saw that a lot on one of the FJR forums as well. I would agree that they should have included the GT instead of the RT - that was just strange - but their conclusions were pretty accurate. Maybe... just maybe... The C-14 is that good!

[fas]

Some of you may know our agency, Arras Group, helps KTM. Recently, KTM's Super Duke won motorcycle of the year (MOY). KTM paid for very little advertising in the last year. Hundreds of bike designers want to be MOY. I think their ediorial staff decision was done based on the ride quality, nothing else. In fact, they showed big stones making this choice. Many firms spend WAY MORE $$$$.

The US motorcycle magazine "Motorcyclist" awarded the KTM 990 Super Duke to the "Motorcycle of the year 2007". (www.motorcyclistonline.com; Edition of September 2007)

[dshealey]

I can't get past it either. It is awkward as hell, and every single moto company throughout the world has standardized on a different setup. BMW will probably never change, and therein lies the arrogance that drives many of us crazy.

I just cannot get the whining about the BMW turn signals! Before getting the LT I got back into riding on my son in law's Harley Heritage. Pretty much the same switch arrangement, but worse than the BMW. The Harley signals timed out too quickly, not related to speed as the LT, and you would not know if you did not look way down between your knees to see the dim lights to know. If I tried to outguess them, I was either turning them off or turning them back on when I did not want to. Are the magazine writers complaining about the Harley switches? Hell no! They not dare. However, whining about practically the same set up on the BMW will not piss off nearly as many riders as whining about the Harleys, so they moan away.

I thought the switches on the LT were about as ergonomic and straight forward as any, I felt they were well thought out. to me another arrangement would feel strange. I would be pissed if BMW changed them in order to "follow the leaders", who are different, but in no way "better". Within a day or so of getting the LT the signals were second nature requiring no thought to use at all. Why is that "wrong"?

[meese]

I can't get past it either. It is awkward as hell, and every single moto company throughout the world has standardized on a different setup. BMW will probably never change, and therein lies the arrogance that drives many of us crazy.BMW arrogant? Of course they are, it just comes with the territory. :)

I don't have an trouble with the turn signal switches (when I remember to use them :)) but then again I'm not switching bike brands regularly. I do find the horn a bit awkward, especially when you need it in a hurry, but other than that I haven't had any problems.

I've had more trouble with the little tiny buttons on the Japanese left-right-cancel switch, but that's mostly because they're usually small and somewhat stiff to move sideways.

[petevandyke]

If you can't adjust to the BMW's turn signals and the fact that you have to hit the right side button to cancel either the left or right turn...if it's THAT difficult for you (meaning "a rider," not you, the reader of this stupid post submitted by me, admittedly a stupid poster) to adapt to, then you really, REALLY should reconsider whether being on a motorcycle, which requires split-second decisions and the ability to make rapid adjustments to CHANGING conditions--sometimes constantly.

I wonder what being around the dinner table is like at a Motorcyclist magazine columnist's house.

"Oh my GOD, this meatloaf, it's....it's.....DIFFERENT!!!!!"

"Relax honey, I just added a little salt."

"Noooooooooooooooooooo!!! I can't POSSIBLY eat this, it's just so....DIFFERENT!!!"

"Oh shut up and eat your dinner, ,it's not that different from any other meatloaf, it just has a little tweak to it, you won't even notice it after you've had a little bit."

"But I caaaaaaaaaaaaaaan't. It's not like the other meatloafs I've had, it's not, I tell you!!!!!"

"you might like it MORE if you give it a chance"

"No, I can't adjust, I just can't!!! Different is BAAAAAAAAAAAAD!"

[dwsdad]

When I first got my LT, I thought the turn signal switch was awkward, but after a few miles I found it much more intuitive to use. When I ride the old Connie, I find myself trying to push the starter button to signal a right turn. I really love the switch layout on the BMWs!

Buffgunner, the C14 may be a sweet ride, but I keep asking why Kawasaki would build and market a bike as "Transcontinental Sport Tourer" without even offering the options of heated seats/grips or cruise. Yeah, I know, a lot of those Connie guys hate cruise controls, but an OPTION would have been nice.

You and I both know we visit both Forums. I read the very good things about about the bike. But I also read the not so good things. A dash that blanks out when left in the sun or heat. Dash consoles that melt when left in the sun. A tiny glovebox. Having to push 2 buttons to see how miles you left before empty. Saddle bags that fall off. I thought long and hard about the C14 and was convinced I wanted one, but now I'm really glad Kawasaki drug their feet releasing it. It opened my eyes to the GT. Yeah, sure, I could have added heated seats and grips and cruise, but quite frankly, I'm tired of hanging stuff on a bike when there's one available that has it all integrated beautifully.

I'm still waiting for a C14 test ride to see what I'm missing. If all it is is power, then I'm not missing too much. If I'm missing a suspension that's better than the ESA, or ergos that are as adjustable as the GT I'll be surprised and disappointed I didn't wait.

[fas]

If you can't adjust to the BMW's turn signals and the fact that you have to hit the right side button to cancel either the left or right turn...if it's THAT difficult for you (meaning "a rider," not you, the reader of this stupid post submitted by me, admittedly a stupid poster) to adapt to, then you really, REALLY should reconsider whether being on a motorcycle, which requires split-second decisions and the ability to make rapid adjustments to CHANGING conditions--sometimes constantly.

I wonder what being around the dinner table is like at a Motorcyclist magazine columnist's house.

"Oh my GOD, this meatloaf, it's....it's.....DIFFERENT!!!!!"

"Relax honey, I just added a little salt."

"Noooooooooooooooooooo!!! I can't POSSIBLY eat this, it's just so....DIFFERENT!!!"

"Oh shut up and eat your dinner, ,it's not that different from any other meatloaf, it just has a little tweak to it, you won't even notice it after you've had a little bit."

"But I caaaaaaaaaaaaaaan't. It's not like the other meatloafs I've had, it's not, I tell you!!!!!"

"you might like it MORE if you give it a chance"

"No, I can't adjust, I just can't!!! Different is BAAAAAAAAAAAAD!"

LMAO. Thanks Pete.

[buffgunner]

When I first got my LT, I thought the turn signal switch was awkward, but after a few miles I found it much more intuitive to use. When I ride the old Connie, I find myself trying to push the starter button to signal a right turn. I really love the switch layout on the BMWs!

Buffgunner, the C14 may be a sweet ride, but I keep asking why Kawasaki would build and market a bike as "Transcontinental Sport Tourer" without even offering the options of heated seats/grips or cruise. Yeah, I know, a lot of those Connie guys hate cruise controls, but an OPTION would have been nice.

You and I both know we visit both Forums. I read the very good things about about the bike. But I also read the not so good things. A dash that blanks out when left in the sun or heat. Dash consoles that melt when left in the sun. A tiny glovebox. Having to push 2 buttons to see how miles you left before empty. Saddle bags that fall off. I thought long and hard about the C14 and was convinced I wanted one, but now I'm really glad Kawasaki drug their feet releasing it. It opened my eyes to the GT. Yeah, sure, I could have added heated seats and grips and cruise, but quite frankly, I'm tired of hanging stuff on a bike when there's one available that has it all integrated beautifully.

I'm still waiting for a C14 test ride to see what I'm missing. If all it is is power, then I'm not missing too much. If I'm missing a suspension that's better than the ESA, or ergos that are as adjustable as the GT I'll be surprised and disappointed I didn't wait.All bikes have some issues. the ones you've mentioned are all limited, so they aren't a major concern to me. I'd like to have had the heated grips and seat along with cruise - but that's the way it is.

Fo me, the issue that sold me was the engine and handling. I read all the same tests as everyone lse - but they didn't do it justice. I would be amazed if there was another big bike that had as good a suspension as this. I haven't ridden a GT, but have lots of miles on LTs and know how well BMW can get things to work. The one single thing Kawasaki did better than everybody else is the drive shaft. This is now the standard and all the other manufacturers (if they want to stay competitive) will be using a variation of it in the future - even BMW.

[dwsdad]

I haven't ridden a GT, but have lots of miles on LTs and know how well BMW can get things to work. The one single thing Kawasaki did better than everybody else is the drive shaft. This is now the standard and all the other manufacturers (if they want to stay competitive) will be using a variation of it in the future - even BMW.

Do yourself a favor and DON'T test a GT with ESA! :D The LT ain't no GT by any stretch.

You know, it's been like forever since I've ridden a chain drive bike (1980, I think), I see nothing wrong with the BMW shaft drive.

[buffgunner]

Do yourself a favor and DON'T test a GT with ESA! :D The LT ain't no GT by any stretch.

You know, it's been like forever since I've ridden a chain drive bike (1980, I think), I see nothing wrong with the BMW shaft drive. What it does is replicate the behavior of a chain. In throttle transitions, there is a complete absence of rise or squat.

While I haven't ridden a GT yet, I can't imagine it being better in the twisties - maybe as good (I could be wrong). The C-14 is incredible when the road turns.

[grifscoots]

While I haven't ridden a GT yet, I can't imagine it being better in the twisties - maybe as good (I could be wrong). The C-14 is incredible when the road turns.I bet it is, and fun to boot.

The great thang about the GT is that dayem ESA. To be able to go from comfort, normal, sport, 1-up, 2-up with or without luggage is a beyootiful thang.

[fas]

I bet it is, and fun to boot.

The great thang about the GT is that dayem ESA. To be able to go from comfort, normal, sport, 1-up, 2-up with or without luggage is a beyootiful thang.

+1

This is one major reason why the GT is ideal for me. During the week I ride solo, sport. Saturday A.M., I punch a botton and the ride is set for 2-up loaded, comfort, and off we go. SO is so pleased with the ride quality, and so am I.

Who was the editor that made the critical comments about the C-14 suspension not managing rough pavement? The GT is a dream on tough surfaces.

Grif, you gotta work on your spell check...;)

[calyrider]

Just got the new Motorcyclist Magazine, haven't read the article yet, but I am guessin' there are gonna' be some interesting comments on this forum because in their "sport touring super-duper answer it all comparo" they chose the new concours, the honda st 1300, the Yamaha fjr, and...wait for it...the BMW....wait for it.....R1200RT.

OK, I'll be the first, even though I still haven't had the pleasure of riding one yet, to say it...

"Yeah, they didn't test the K-GT because it's actually IN the same category as the Concours and that would make for a fair comparo, and highlight what's missing on the Connie."


When you get a copy, read the opening editorial, too. If you're a regular reader, cro-magnon man Brian Catterson, the Editor, is actually MARRIED to Angie Loy (the gorgeous sportbike rider/former website editor/writer) and writes about how his marriage was falling apart, so he took his first vacation in three years. Not with her, but to ride motorcycles. That's like me taking a vacation to have medical tests.

Just if you needed more reason to think Motorcyclist is slipping a little...


Cheers, all...and for those of you who own GT's....remember, "breathe in.....breathe out....."


Pete

Your right that this was a test of Gran Tourers, and the RT is not......a GT! The reason they didn't have the GT was probably because they couldn't get one for one reason or another, so they went with the RT because it was accessible.

I'm personally not a fan of GT's, and would take an RT over a GT any day! 150 hp is ridiculous. Power wheelies are fun for sure, but 120 degree heat BLASTING off the motor on hot summer days is about the worst thing I've ever experienced in 30 years of motorcycling from a motorbike. Furthermore, they are completely average in the back roads, and they aren't great touring either. What you get is milk toast. Everything good, nothing great!

[buffgunner]

Who was the editor that made the critical comments about the C-14 suspension not managing rough pavement? The GT is a dream on tough surfaces.
The C-14 manages rough pavement fine. It is relatively firmly damped, but doesn't get out of sorts over rough pavement. Actually, since mine is now completely broken in, the suspension works great all the time.

It seems like some of you guys read other forums and road tests looking for negatives on the C-14. the picture being painted here isn't quite accurate - the C-14 just doesn't have that many issues. It's not like the final drives are blowing up or anything! :rotf:

[petevandyke]

"...We shuffled the deck as well, ordering up a BMW R1200RT boxer in place of the less graceful K1200GT four..."


hmmmm, well I'm not sure I'd wanna' try and complete too many slow-cone exercises on a personally-owned ST1300, FJR or Concours, but the RT certainly does dance...

How they define graceful makes me wonder. RT vs GT, I don't think anyone is going to argue...turning radius, center of gravity, stability, etc., pretty clear cut, but they aren't meant to be equivalent.

But GT vs the three others in the comparo? I wonder what criteria determines the exclusion there...I'd have to guess that the RT's turning radius embarasses any of the other three, but the GT would be about the same. Ditto that for lean angle or anything else I can come up with. Makes it tough to understand for those like me "of little brain" as the FJR's hard bags don't hold much more than the GT's, the price-as-tested for the GT and RT are pretty close, which feeds the flames of those who would argue that the RT is a "do everything bike" (Motorcyclist's words when they named the RT "motorcycle of the year") and the GT is truly a sport-tourer.

Later in the article when they write "...Despite Honda's ST1300 spotting it nearly 100 pounds, the boxer doesn't have the horsepower or chassis composure to keep up." it seems just a weeeee bit unfair to me.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.--Dennis Miller


I've ridden the R1200RT, someday would really enjoy riding the ST1300, the FJR and the Concours. Oh, and the GT, even if it isn't good enough for Motorcyclist.

wink

[grifscoots]

I've ridden the R1200RT, someday would really enjoy riding the ST1300, the FJR and the Concours. Oh, and the GT, even if it isn't good enough for Motorcyclist.
That did it! If the GT isn't good enough for motorcyclist, I'm selling the POS! :p :p :p

[meese]

I'm personally not a fan of GT's, and would take an RT over a GT any day! 150 hp is ridiculous. Power wheelies are fun for sure, but 120 degree heat BLASTING off the motor on hot summer days is about the worst thing I've ever experienced in 30 years of motorcycling from a motorbike. Furthermore, they are completely average in the back roads, and they aren't great touring either. What you get is milk toast. Everything good, nothing great!You sure didn't ride my GT then. No heat issues whatsoever, even when riding in 100+ degree heat. And I've ridden the LT as hard as anyone here, including on a proper track. That will show you its limits very quickly.

I haven't had the GT on a track (yet) but I know that it will hold its own against much more "sporty" bikes, and it will flat trash an LT in any sort of corner. I've also done multiple 1,000 mile days on the GT (as on the LT) and while I did have to tweak the seat and windshield, I had to do that on the LT as well. Plus the GT actually has more useable luggage space with the factory 49L top case installed. Simply put, the GT is easily the most versatile bike I've ridden, doing very well on a wide variety of roads and conditions.

I've also ridden RTs, and I just didn't like them. I found myself holding back rather than being comfortable enough to trust the bike and push it hard. Guess I'm just not a boxer guy.

The only things the LT does better than the GT are the factory stereo (don't care as I use an iPod) and passenger comfort. Period. And while the extra 50 hp sure can be fun, I'm more impressed with losing 200 lbs. That in itself makes a huge difference, whether thrashing back roads or pulling into a gast station after 20 hours in the saddle. I loved both my LTs and rode a lotta miles in a lotta countries, but I just can't see going back to one.

So if the GT doesn't fit you that's fine, but there sure are an awful lot of happy GT riders out there so they must be doing something right.