Holy cow, what a difference a new seat makes.

[docwagner]

When I bought the LT, I thought it was comfortable. Took a couple of moderately long rides, 650miles in a day, 850miles in two days. Found myself shifting around in the seat a lot after a couple of hours in the saddle and when thinking about how anyone could do 1000miles+ in a day I couldn't fathom the discomfort. So I broke down and ordered a seat from Rick Mayer. Came in last week, installed it, rode 550miles up and 425miles back to Philadelphia (I know those numbers don't add up, had to do with a errant piece of luggage left in a restroom that had to be retrieved) over the Thanksgiving day weekend, so with traffic spent a lot of time in the saddle. Well what a difference. The butt felt great. I could sit upright or lean back with the feet on the jpegs with equal comfort. Felt like I could ride all day and did. Before at eight hours I was looking for a place to sleep, now at 12 hours I still have more and could keep going.
If anyone else has doubts about their saddle I encourage you to sit on an aftermarket seat.

[curt1945]

Great to read about your pleasure with your new seat. I too would like to change seats but have not had good results buying things without being able to try them first. Every time I have I end up regreting it. Glad yours was a good experince.

[Jerrod Maguire]

What did the seat cost you? And how long to get it?

[Reid]

Congratulations! That's great to hear! I have one on order from Rick, but won't see it until January...and since I live in Nebraska I probably won't ride it until April. :( Am putting a Utopia backrest on it. Not sure if I'll need pegs with the new seat or not.

[justincase]

How about a picture!! Rick doesn't have many K12LTs on his site. I'd like to see his work.

[docwagner]

I think the time frame for the seat was a couple of months. I want to say I ordered it in August and the build date was the first week of November. What he will do is take your order and build the seat on a pan he has. He wants a $500 deposit and asks that you send your old seat back within 30 days. I opted for this and the seat came in the week before Thanksgiving. Now I ordered both front and back seats, the rear seat hasn't come in yet, because he was waiting for a rear seat pan to be returned. I expect the rear seat any day. With this strategy you can keep riding right up until your new seat comes in.

Regarding cost, Rick has a cost calculator on his web site. It depends on several factors, but $650 sticks in my mind. I will probably as have him cover my Bakup and rear seat back rest as well.

I will take some photos and post in the next day or so. The leather is quite nice, soft and the stitching looks first rate.

Rick has also been good to work with. He has answered my emails fairly promptly and he and I chatted on the phone for a while. Seems like a nice guy and I hope to meet him someday.

Maybe with this seat I can get into the Iron Butt world.

[Tallyho]

We are fortunate enough to live just a three hour ride from Rick's place near Redding, California. Most of the NorCal riders have Rick's saddles. I had him do a custom job on my saddle and pillion seat about 18 months ago. It made a monumental difference. I would say the single most important change I've made to the bike. Right up there with installing the Wilbers and Cee Bailey windshield. Rick offers a ride-in program where you schedule an appointment and he builds your seat to spec right on the spot after taking your measurements. Before he buttons it up, he puts it on the bike and lets you try it out for more adjustments. He's quite the host and it's an experience well worth the trip. You might plan a ride out to the west coast this summer and get it done "in house." I'll attach a photo of my two-tone job when I get home tonight. By the way, I would not hestitate to put on the XL Jpegs or Ottomans. They will only be enhanced by your custom seat and changing leg position on long rides is really a good idea to keep the blood flowing and nerve endings in your legs happy.

[DavidTaylor]

Rick does make a fantastic seat. He built the one on my 02 LT (now transplanted to my 05) and it's the best custom saddle I've used.

[ronjrieth]

Docwagner,
A rick mayer saddle sounds good but let me understand what Rick requires. Are you saying that he will build an LT seat on a pan of his own and then he requires you to send him your pan....is this within 30 days AFTER you get the one he builds for you? Also what about heated seats....does he do these?
Thanks, Ron

[erglenn]

Anyone online have any experience with Bill Mayer Saddles, Just wondering are these two related?? How do they compare in price and quality??
Best
Glenn

[Ranger6]

Yes, he does heated seats. And I agree with Bob, in that the improvement is right up there with Wilbers, a good after market windshield and even HID. In fact, the difference is so dramatic, it might be at the top of the list. The one thing Rick did discuss with me however, was that it is not entirely necessary to do the pillion seat, because the comfort level of that seat is inherently better than the rider seat in the first place, because of the way the two pans are designed. The padding, as well as the way in which pan of the rider seat is designed, results in less overall comfort to begin with, because it has to accomodate the battery and the rear shock adjuster, not to mention anything else you might put in there, so your butt winds up basically sitting right on top of the pan after a few hours. Rick's medical quality foam prevents this from happening. A great saddle in my opinion.

[Ranger6]

They are brothers, I believe? Someone can corect me on this, but I believe they did work together at one time but chose to split at some point. Have no clue as to why. I am in a family business, and I can take a good guess as to why. :(

[docwagner]

Docwagner,
A rick mayer saddle sounds good but let me understand what Rick requires. Are you saying that he will build an LT seat on a pan of his own and then he requires you to send him your pan....is this within 30 days AFTER you get the one he builds for you? Also what about heated seats....does he do these?
Thanks, Ron
It's like returning the empty soda bottles. You send him your measurements and $$. He builds the seat, sends you the seat and you send him your old seat. He then recycles your pan for the next guy. Yes he does heated seats. That's what I got. Not sure what he does with non-heated seat pans. That's one you will have to ask him.

I believe Rick and Bill are brothers. I think they used to work together, but not anymore, and I believe their father also makes custom seats. Why I chose Rick is based on reading a lot of posts.

[DavidTaylor]

Docwagner,
A rick mayer saddle sounds good but let me understand what Rick requires. Are you saying that he will build an LT seat on a pan of his own and then he requires you to send him your pan....is this within 30 days AFTER you get the one he builds for you? Also what about heated seats....does he do these?
Thanks, Ron

Rick keeps a few LT seats around so he can do this swap so you're not down waiting for the new seat. if you have a heated seat he reuses the existing element in the new seat so you will still have a heated seat.

[murray]

Rick keeps a few LT seats around so he can do this swap so you're not down waiting for the new seat. if you have a heated seat he reuses the existing element in the new seat so you will still have a heated seat.

True the master plan is to use others core seats for the build, But. Rick may not always have the proper core in stock. You need to schedule the build and hope for the best. When I set up my build and the due date approached I called Rick to make sure all was in place, It was not. I called 1 week prior and I had to fed express my seat no core was available. I was on a deadline and needed my seat back for a LD rally. The seat arrived as planned 2 days prior. Rick did a good job , The seat worked great ! Second ride I rode over 2600 miles in the rally < 48 hours. In september I rode 4500 + miles in under 72 hours and the seat felt very good. If I had to do it again I would get a seat from rick, ////////i am sure his brother does a good job.
Pete

[Keith]

The two Mayers are brothers... and competitors.

I got a ride in appointment last August for my GS seat. It absolutely changed that bike for the better. I will get one for the LT soon. Ricks a great guy, he even bought me lunch after the build and sent me down one of the best roads of my whole trip!

[Tallyho]

Well, it's a long story. Their dad Oscar, used to own this hotdog company......http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aetsch/cheeky-smiley-020.gif

But seriously, a lot of their history is on their respective websites. I have never heard a bad thing about either person's work but my impression is that they are not the closest of siblings.

Bill and Rick are brothers located about 400 miles apart. One in Southern California(Bill) and one in Northern California(Rick). Their father started the saddle business and apparently both took an interest. They seem to have had a falling out at some point. Each takes a different approach to what goes underneath the leather but the fit and finish of both is excellent. Rick has a medical background and can make your head swim with all the medical consideration he puts into the combination of support, padding, and gels cushioning in all the right places. My personal feeling is that he really takes an orthopedic approach to really and truly custom designing a saddle that fits your specific fatoot. Although not always completely organized, Rick's results are simply awesome. Like nothing you would expect. He also told me that I didn't need to build a custom pillion seat yet I had it recovered in the same two-tone leather to match mine. A couple weeks later when it became apparent my built up seat was keeping my wife from seeing over my shoulder the same way as before, we road back on Saturday. He added a gel layer and refitted the seat so she actually has a better view than before without changing the center of gravity. All at no additional charge. Rick is the "Butt Dr." Says so right on the license plate of his iron butt RT.

[Ranger6]

Good authentication of the brothers Mayer, Bob, as I do remember bits and pieces of your account of their history. I have yet to have the pillion seat and backrest recovered to match the front, and although it does look mismatched it tends to grow on me as time passes...on the other hand, I haven't ruled out having it done yet either. Interesting what he did to yours though...that has merit.

[meese]

I have a Bill Mayer saddle on my LT. Used it for several long days and LD rides, including Mexico to Canada (1400 miles) in 21 hours. It is so much better than stock as to be indescribable. Rocky (Bill was their Dad) did a great job and is an avid rider himself. Plus I liked that Rocky doesn't put any seams on the top surface of the seat, which is better for wet weather and overall comfort.

Those who use Ricks stuff also swear by it, but he occasionally gets busy enough to miss promised deadlines. You can't go wrong either way.

[Tallyho]

Looks like I posted this on the wrong thread last night. Duhhh. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-004.gif

Gives a pretty good view of the saddle. By the way, I prefer the look of the accent stitching and feel is provides a certain measure of ventilation as well.

http://www.bmwlt.com/gallery/files/5/4/4/4/SKRreset.jpg

[justincase]

Looks like I posted this on the wrong thread last night. Duhhh. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-004.gif

Gives a pretty good view of the saddle. By the way, I prefer the look of the accent stitching and feel is provides a certain measure of ventilation as well.

HEY, that's my bike! Now I want those seats too...

Very nice combination of colors, it really make the bike stand-out (not that LT's don't stand out anyway).

What materials did you use? They look like a leather/cloth combo? Does the white scuff or get dirty easily?

Very nice choice, thanks for sharing!

[Tallyho]

The saddles are black and gray leather. I rub them out with mink oil once a month. They have actually gotten better with time as they have been broken in. We selected the gray to match the gray parts on the bike. Rick was a little hesitant to do it. I think he was concerned we wouldn't like it. I also selected black thread instead of gray for the accent stitching. The combination really looks sharp and caps off the bike. I get a lot of positive comments on it but I am sure those that don't appreciate it don't say anything. Rick took a number of photos when it was done and whenever I run into him at local rallies and such he always remembers me as "Bob with the two-tone LT." I have some before, during, and after photos of the seat build if anyone is interested in seeing them.

[justincase]

... I have some before, during, and after photos of the seat build if anyone is interested in seeing them.
I'd love to see them. I never thought of going two-tone. Can you get a close up (or at least good view) of the stitching. Somehow I wouldn't have thought that black stitching would work well, so I'd like to see it if possible.

Thanks for you help and time.

[emsweeney]

I would love to see photos as well! I spoke with Rick today and put my name in line to take advantage of his $399 November special for a leather LT seat. A question for those that have had Rick make a seat, leather or vinyl? Rick said if one doesn't do much hot weather riding, or if one wears a pant that is armored, don't bother with leather. I would love to hear from those who have his seats, what you decided and how you like it.

Thanks, Gene

[Tallyho]

I would equate it to the same selection process as your automobile seats or perhaps your couch. There is a certain feel, give, and look to leather that I really appreciate. I never considered getting vinyl and quite frankly never saw John Wayne or Clint Eastwood riding a plastic saddle. :rolleyes: If you keep your saddle treated with mink oil, cover it at night while on the road, and garaged at home, it will last a good long time. As for wear, sure you shouldn't soak the saddle with your hose when washing but you know cows spend a lot of time outside and they are basically waterproof. Rick's wife also makes a handy cover for his saddles that I have also used as a windshield cover now and again. ;)

[BillyOmaha]

For those that may be considering a custom saddle, here is a poll done a short time ago and the related commentary on the subject. Custom Saddle Poll (http://www.bmwlt.net/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=K1200LT&Number=307116&page=&view=&sb=&o=)




.

[docwagner]

Polls are nice, but the sample size is so small that it is really difficult to get a real answer.
Regarding leather vs vinyl, I like the feel and look of leather. I figured if I'm going to pay for a custom seat I want the best. Leather needs maintenance and some degree of care, butt in the end it is a great look (pun intended).

[SeaMarshal]

I put 990 miles in one day on my custom seat from Rich's (he advertises in the ON magazine). He's done 3 seats for me and I am really satisfied.

Tim

[jazzbass]

Any one had only the Front seat redone in leather?

How does it look??

I generally ride 1 up.

Since comparing seats is not equal(Mayer/BMW), anyone have experience to
recommend overall feel/comfort leather vs vinyl?

[vgstef]

Any one had only the Front seat redone in leather?

How does it look??

I generally ride 1 up.

Since comparing seats is not equal(Mayer/BMW), anyone have experience to
recommend overall feel/comfort leather vs vinyl?

What is the result if you only like to have the front seat done up to match the rear seat ? Is it posible ?

[jazzbass]

It can be done, some members said there riders were fine with the
stock rear seat. I thought the leather front seat might look a little odd.

If the results came back with the leather being a big benefit, I would consider it.

I'm gonna talk to Mayer seat folks this afternoon and get in on their special
I believe.

[nath3an]

Doc,

The poll is certainly not the most comprehensive in the world, but a coupe of trends are clear:

- People who purchased saddles from Bill Mayer and Kontour are overwhelmingly satisfied.

- Most people who purchased from Rick Mayer and Russell are satisfied.

- 3/4ths of people who purchased from Corbin believe they made a mistake.

It may not settle the leather vs. vinal question, but it does provide some excellent information.

Cheers,
Nath3an

[mikerd400]

I had Rick to the seat on my 1200GS, in leather. I love the seat. Extermely comfortable. In 2001 my patrol car was rear ended at 70 mph, and I've had back problems ever since. Having that new seat has helped my back tremendously. Long rides do not bother my back as much. I will have Rick do my next saddle.

[S2DOG]

I'd love to have one. Now if they could just get the correct matching grey... :(

[cws]

Having just done my first reasonable length ride (1400km over a couple of days) on my 05 LT with stock seat (now just over 5000km), I've confirmed that I have a problem with the small backrest digging into my lower back unless I have the full padded overpants on to absorb the pressure point, and its just too damn hot here in summer to consider that.
I've been looking at previous posts and some of the pics of 3rd party seats.
Seems to me the Rick Mayer seat uses the stock backrest from one photo I saw? And the Kontour seat seemed to do away with this small backrest, in favour of a more "fitted" bum position and then adding the optional backrest if you need it?
Bit hard to tell...
What I did do on the trip (it had some Honda sponsorship) was take a GW for a blast (see pic for ghastly sponsorship colour scheme), and found the seat on that immediately very comfortable in its shape in comparison to the LT's seat...
Can anyone please post some clearer pics of the Kontour and Mayer seats already fitted to LT's, from various angles, so I can compare what support is provided?
Other comments welcome also...
Its a long way to have to order a seat only to find its not quite what I expected..., especially with our AU - US exchange rate!
cheers

[RonKMiller]

Having just done my first reasonable length ride (1400km over a couple of days) on my 05 LT with stock seat (now just over 5000km), I've confirmed that I have a problem with the small backrest digging into my lower back unless I have the full padded overpants on to absorb the pressure point, and its just too damn hot here in summer to consider that.
I've been looking at previous posts and some of the pics of 3rd party seats.
Seems to me the Rick Mayer seat uses the stock backrest from one photo I saw? And the Kontour seat seemed to do away with this small backrest, in favour of a more "fitted" bum position and then adding the optional backrest if you need it?
Bit hard to tell...
What I did do on the trip (it had some Honda sponsorship) was take a GW for a blast (see pic for ghastly sponsorship colur scheme), and found the seat on that immediately very comfortable in its shape in comparison to the LT's seat...
Can anyone please post some clearer pics of the Kontour and Mayer seats already fitted to LT's, from various angles, so I can compare what support is provided?
Other comments welcome also...
Its a long way to have to order a seat only to find its not quite what I expected..., especially with our AU - US exchange rate!
cheers


Hi Chris:

We address the lumbar support of the LT seat in several ways:

1. Our stock seats have no modification to the lumbar support. For 80% of riders this is not an issue - but as you have mentioned it can be a BIG problem.

2. Our first option is "lumbar support section remanufacture": On seats with a separate lumbar section this includes matching perforated fabric, breathable mesh and waterproofing/radiant heat barrier on the front face. This option will provide for a firmer lumbar support and a high level of additional cooling and fresh air. The driver will push back horizontally into the support the same distance as OEM. ($100.00)

3. Our second option is what we call "Kontour Specification lumbar remanufacture": Remanufacture includes the above but we remove a ½' layer of the stock foam and replace it with a ½" layer of medium density visco foam on the front face of the support. Ideal for helping low back issues or protruding tail bones, this option will allow this section to conform and mold to the lower lumbar region. The driver will push back horizontally into the support the same distance as OEM. ($150.00)

4. Our third option is the "Tall Man's KonTour Specification" lumbar support: Remanufacture includes all the above but instead we remove a 1" layer of the stock foam and replace it with 1" of soft density visco foam. The driver can push back horizontally an additional 1" into the support versus OEM. Provides quite a bit more leg room to stretch out. ($175.00)

In addition to this I would strongly recommend a BakUp backrest ($375.00) - we've tried all the major brands, and even manufactured our own for a while, but quite simply it is the best design on the market. The upgrade is our "KonTour Specification BakUp": 1 Inch of high density visco, 1/2 inch of medium density visco, waterproofing/radiant heat barrier, breathable mesh and perforated fabric. ($250.00) You will of course need to mortgage the house for a $650.00 backrest but it is the ULTIMATE in comfort. ;)

Chris Paine will be taking delivery of one our seats in the new year (everybody down unda' knows Chris!) and although I don't think he has specified any lumbar options we are going to be building a very robust seat for him, and you might want to check it out.

All of our street seats and accessories are covered by an unconditional lifetime guarantee (except for sun related damage) for the original owner.

Please note that the picture below shows our BackEZ backrest which has been discontinued, but it does give you a good look at the lumbar section.

[mneblett]

Anyone online have any experience with Bill Mayer Saddles, Just wondering are these two related?? How do they compare in price and quality??
Best
GlennBill Mayer's saddles were legendary in the 1970's/'80s -- he's the guy that came up with the idea for a double-curved steel strap to support the outer "wings" of a saddle -- the design Russell now builds, after buying BIll Mayer's patent and getting a non-compete agreement, IIRC.

Here's how I understand the current relationships (primarily from 2nd-hand sources, so take it with a grain of salt): After Bill Mayer passed, Rick and Rocky had a heck of a tussle over who would have rights to the Bill Mayer name (obviously, a valuable property, given the reputation of his saddles). Rocky won. Much bad blood, since apparently Rocky had little to do with the business when his dad was alive, while Rick worked at his dad's knee for years. Rick started his own business, and like his dad, is basically a one-man operation with his hands on each saddle. I'm told that Rocky doesn't actually build his saddles (i.e., he runs a shop in which employees do the work, ala Mike Corbin), and that his saddle-building business was started only after Bill Mayer passed and he got the rights to the Bill Mayer name. Obviously, Rocky had to have picked up a few skills as he was growing up, i.e., it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing, as the reports on his seats are generally good.

It was with this understanding, and in particular the personal hands-on involvement, that I chose Rick to build my '00's saddle.

[eatanner]

...I'm told that Rocky doesn't actually build his saddles (i.e., he runs a shop in which employees do the work, ala Mike Corbin), and that his saddle-building business was started only after Bill Mayer passed and he got the rights to the Bill Mayer name. Obviously, Rocky had to have picked up a few skills as he was growing up, i.e., it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing, as the reports on his seats are generally good. When I rode in for my seat (during which time Ken Meece dropped by) Rocky did the cutting, shaping and fitting for the seat and has a very good crew who finish out the leather and reinstall it. During the five or six hours I was there I took the bike down canyon roads two different times for feedback to Rocky. When I left after the work was done I rode to Flagstaff during which time I had serious doubts about the work. Part of my doubts as I reflect upon the ride came because I filled up with gas in Ojai at around 3 pm and didn't stop the bike until Kingman AZ (about 470 miles) when I used up the fumes in my 4 gallon aux tank. I rode on to Flagstaff and spent the night (around 530 miles total). The next day I quit cursing the seat and made it to KCMO for another night's rest. Seems it just needed to be broken in.;) I haven't had problem one with his work or the finished product. I put about 30K on a Corbin and got ready for a bit more cushion and a bit less width on the front end of the seat. I'm very satisfied with what I've got now but would have tried Rick's just as quickly were he set up for a ride in or quick turnaround at that time.

[mneblett]

When I rode in for my seat (during which time Ken Meece dropped by) Rocky did the cutting, shaping and fitting for the seat and has a very good crew who finish out the leather and reinstall it. Cool -- nothing like first-hand info -- happy to see the "hands-off" report I had received was wrong.

[eatanner]

My single report doesn't confirm that he works on all the seats but he was hands-on with my ride-in and slight customization of the fit. I did see a pristine Wide Glide that he put a beautifully crafted seat on. Extra tooling and stitching IIRC. Ken might pipe in with a better report of the whole shooting match since he is just down the road.

[meese]

Rocky is ultimately responsible for every seat that comes through his shop. He does have a couple of helpers who stitch the seat covers ahead of time and do the cleanup work but he talked with me at length about what type of riding I did and what I wanted in a saddle. He hand-selected a pre-formed foam base (made in several densities to accommodate different riders and riding styles), hand fitted it to my seat pan, let me test ride until I was satisfied, and then completed the final smoothing and shaping before handing it off to be recovered in the leather that he and I chose. That allows each seat to benefit from his experience, while still maintaining a reasonable throughput and minimizing the types of delays often seen with other seat vendors.

I've visited him several other times and have seen him go through the same process with other riders and seats. I have no doubt that he gives the same type of attention to mailed-in orders as well.

At least we all have several good sources to choose from here. :)

[rattso]

I ordered a Bill Mayer Saddle late spring last year after trying to mod the stock seat with gel (did not work.) I put miles on the seat as Bill reccomended and I still came up with a very uncomfortable fit. Some of this I believe was the result of my urging Bill for some addl reduction in seat height. Long story short after a very uncomfortable 2 day 950 mile ride I sent the seat back with a complete description of what I thought was wrong and what I felt could help. Bill got the seat turned around in a few days and the seat I recieved was exactly what I asked for. I repeat "exactly what I asked for."
I have yet to put on any real long days but the seat fits well and gives me about three choices of seating positions and that is hard to do on such a short seat as found on the LT. Bill never seemed upset in having to redo the seat. In fact he was a perfect gentleman--even gave a great deal of info on riding in Idaho. The workmanship was very good and expect that the seat should be fine.