American Flag.

[cfell]

http://www.break.com/index/veteran-cuts-down-mexican-flag.html

[kosmo]

Damn Right !

AIRBORNE BROTHER !

[STARFIGHTER]

Good for him.........
4520th Combat Crew Training

[hschisler]

Maybe I'm missing something.

Perhaps the Mexican shopowners simply didn't understand the legality (U.S. Flag Code) and negative symbolism of the U.S. flag flying beneath any other flag. I'm glad the man took some action, but I would have been more impressed if he had asked the shop owners to fix the problem and not left their flag on the ground. (Again -- maybe he did, they refused, and that didn't make the video clip.)

Please, no flaming on this. I'm a veteran, too and I understand the U.S. flag was being flown improperly. I asked a local store (national restaurant chain) manager to replace the badly-tattered U.S. flag he was flying; he looked at me like I was speaking Norwegian or something, but it did get replaced.

[sparky_k1200lt]

Uh...I think I missed something. I watched, and saw someone remove the American flag, so it could not be flown there...leaving the Mexican one behind, so it *could* be flown. I was thinking the correct procedure would have been to remove the Mexican flag, and put the U.S. flag back up (alone) in its appropriate place.

[early1]

I love ya brother , but part of your mind ,heart and spine are missing, along with those of many others in this country.

Does the term melting pot strike a chord?

What is occurring is not diversity , rather it is defamation and defiance.

We have protocols, laws, and yes, rights, earned in blood, defended in blood and preserved by blood.

Perhaps, it is time to meld to the American principles of Equality,Community and Unity under the Constitution, not the whims nor wishes of each individual in order to serve the rights of ALL.

[hschisler]

I love ya brother , but part of your mind ,heart and spine are missing, along with those of many others in this country.

Does the term melting pot strike a chord?

What is occurring is not diversity , rather it is defamation and defiance.

We have protocols, laws, and yes, rights, earned in blood, defended in blood and preserved by blood.

Perhaps, it is time to meld to the American principles of Equality,Community and Unity under the Constitution, not the whims nor wishes of each individual in order to serve the rights of ALL.Ed, I think we are in agreement on most of this. Where I disagree with the conventional wisdom is in the way the man went about fixing the problem.

I guess what I would have liked to see (once more: maybe it went down this way and we simply don't know about it) is the guy talking to the store owners; he educates them on what is wrong with the flags the way they were flying; they reverse the order or remove their flag entirely. Yep, I agree that some will call that naive, but isn't it worth a shot?

From what we see in the video, if a guy walks up to that situation and does what he did (cuts a rope, etc.) he opens himself up to the possibility that THEY will call the police on HIM, and I think he would be in hot water... not them. A real shame on both counts.

In summary... what I'm getting at is not his patriotism, it's how he went about it. What's next? People taking matters into their own hands whenever they see something that hits their hot button? Maybe I should be allowed to spank someone else's child in line at the grocery store when it's painfully obvious he is so desperately asking for it. (OK, that was too easy; I'd vote for that law!)

Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Ed.

[Tbird]

Howard,

I agree with you in principle...but not in this case. I would have done it just the same as he did.

Sometimes you gotta make a statement!!! And having a news crew there putting it on video for millions of U.S. citizens to see was a perfect way to get the point made...and without any spin. This needs to happen every time it occurs.

This is specifically illegal under United States Code Section 7, Title Four, which states,
(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations.


We've gotta quit appeasing those that flaunt their wish to ignore and violate our laws. And ignorance of the law doesn't absolve you of your guilt. My question is: What is the penalty for doing such. And since there is visual proof of it...the bar owners should be paying the price for it.

How totally ignorant (stupid) are these people that they haven't figured out that one of the biggest reasons for the backlash against this immigration issue is these acts of flying a foreign flag on American soil while trying to tell us they wish to be American citizens. In these acts they actually prove they wish to remain citizens of their home country while merely chasing the economic advantages the U.S. has to offer...unlike our (mine) grandfathers and grandmothers who actually did come here to BE AMERICANS!

[hschisler]

Howard,

I agree with you in principle...but not in this case. I would have done it just the same as he did.

Sometimes you gotta make a statement!!! And having a news crew there putting it on video for millions of U.S. citizens to see was a perfect way to get the point made...and without any spin. This needs to happen every time it occurs.

This is specifically illegal under United States Code Section 7, Title Four, which states,
(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations.

We've gotta quit appeasing those that flaunt their wish to ignore and violate our laws. And ignorance of the law doesn't absolve you of your guilt. My question is: What is the penalty for doing such. And since there is visual proof of it...the bar owners should be paying the price for it.

How totally ignorant (stupid) are these people that they haven't figured out that one of the biggest reasons for the backlash against this immigration issue is these acts of flying a foreign flag on American soil while trying to tell us they wish to be American citizens. In these acts they actually prove they wish to remain citizens of their home country while merely chasing the economic advantages the U.S. has to offer...unlike our (mine) grandfathers and grandmothers who actually did come here to BE AMERICANS!
Hey Tom,

Fair enough. So.... let's let the video crew do their thing, then show it to local law enforcement or whoever's jurisdiction this would fall under, but don't take matters into your own hands. I can't be of much help to my family if I'm in jail because the bad guys called the cops on me.

Here's another way of looking at it. The U.S. flag code (which I acknowledged in my first reply) has other sections. One of them says you won't have anything on top of a flag pole, or anything adorning the flag, or you can't wear the flag as an article of clothing. How many times have we seen an eagle on top of a flag pole? Sure, it's another symbol of our country but it's not supposed to be there. Second example: gold fringe on the flag. Not supposed to be there, at least from what I was taught. I could be wrong... My point is this: should we, as individuals, enforce those parts of the flag code? If the problem is on the pole in my yard, knock on my front door and tell me what's wrong, don't take it down.

Maybe I'm trying to cut (no pun intended) too fine of a point here.

[kevincook]

I think the correct thing would be for ICE to go into the establishment at their busiest time and check for illegal aliens. Immediately deport anybody found on the premises. Then make sure the community knows that ICE will be back. Maybe the owner would then decide to keep a lower profile and eliminate the mexican flag.

Kevin

P.S. I keep telling myself to stay out of these political discussions. :(

[STARFIGHTER]

...and while armchair quarterbacking and second guessing is fun, that man is one of the few who saw this and took action. He even took a few moments to say his name and take responsibility for his actions .........
" I think he should have............" CRAP. He did it. He didn't stand back and say what someone else should do...I applaud him.

[early1]

Howard , you may be blissfully uninformed up there near the "more friendly" boreder. (sp, intentional).
Where the 3 million or so Canadians view us largely only as a place to receive excellent health care.

Down here in the real Board-er states these acts are not occurring due to ignorance of the laws.

There is an orchestrated effort to "Mexicanize" an area and flaunt US law.

These are meaningful actions on the part of those perpetrating these acts,not poor uninformed people attempting to honor their heritage.

Spanish/Mexican/Latin influence IS a large part of the culture and charm of the Southwestn US. This is NOT about honor for NOR respect of that influence.

[UncleRock]

So your all condoning the theft that took place, is what I'm getting.

It is okay to steal as long as you agree with it?
Rock

[STARFIGHTER]

While camping in Arizona, Karen and I started off on a hike.
A deputy sheriff (did I say DEPUTY SHERIFF) stopped and suggested we carry a sidearm...

[hschisler]

Howard , you may be blissfully uninformed up there near the "more friendly" boreder. (sp, intentional).
Where the 3 million or so Canadians view us largely only as a place to receive excellent health care.

Down here in the real Board-er states these acts are not occurring due to ignorance of the laws.

There is an orchestrated effort to "Mexicanize" an area and flaunt US law.

These are meaningful actions on the part of those perpetrating these acts,not poor uninformed people attempting to honor their heritage.

Spanish/Mexican/Latin influence IS a large part of the culture and charm of the Southwestn US. This is NOT about honor for NOR respect of that influence.I'll accept that.

You are correct: Other than a couple of trips to visit relatives in San Antonio and a couple of trips across the border for shopping, I have zero first-hand experience in what the southern states are experienceing. My comments were based strictly on what the video showed.

That said... we have a surprising number of Mexicans in central Ohio... and Kansas and Kentucky (where I have worked recently on IT consulting gigs). Here in central Ohio we see them frequently but we never see their kids in school (Mrs. hschisler is a public school teacher). I don't know what's up with that.

[astuber]

Howard , you may be blissfully uninformed up there near the "more friendly" boreder. (sp, intentional).
Where the 3 million or so Canadians view us largely only as a place to receive excellent health care.

Down here in the real Board-er states these acts are not occurring due to ignorance of the laws.

There is an orchestrated effort to "Mexicanize" an area and flaunt US law.

These are meaningful actions on the part of those perpetrating these acts,not poor uninformed people attempting to honor their heritage.

Spanish/Mexican/Latin influence IS a large part of the culture and charm of the Southwestn US. This is NOT about honor for NOR respect of that influence.

I thought I remembered an interview with the bar owner where he said that he was flying the Mexican flag above the US flag to show solidarity with the 'undocumented workers" and didn't know it was illegal. However, I looked online but couldn't find any reference to this. I too don't think this was a mistake but a deliberate act to flaunt US law.

As for condoning theft, I certainly do in this case.

[STARFIGHTER]

Condone ? Hell yes !
The American government condones "undocumented workers" because they're cheap labor for the businesses that support their campaigns.
They never deal with the "illegal" part of it.
Immigration officers are getting gunned down along the Mex. border.
It isn't theft, it's rescuing the symbol of our great country from disgrace.
In the City I grew up in, it might have been a Polish immmigrant that took it away from those fools.

[CalLT]

Where the 3 million or so Canadians view us largely only as a place to receive excellent health care.

Not to change the subject or anything ... but I really don't think there are many countries who view us this way. Ethiopia, maybe ... Canada, nope.

[BecketMa]

Around here we have a name for people who brake the law to enforce the law, VIGALIENTIES.

The reason why there are MILLIONS of illegals here is because the Democrats and Republicans have chosen, and continue to choose not to secure our boarders.

Blaming people who break into our country to work instead of laying the blame on Congress is sorta strange?

Next thing you know Congress will pass the buck by making it the responsibility of employers, schools, hospitals, local government etc, to insure illegals haven't broken into our country.

Face it, in addition to not having the will power to secure our boarders, we don't have the funds to secure our boarders because its more important to have pet projects like "bridges to no-where", Rock and Roll Hall of Fame etc, and we'd have to stop sending funds to foreign countries.

Once a year, on my birthday, I write a letter to my representatives in Congress telling them that I think the flow of illegals into our country is the direct result of them choosing to not secure our boarders--whenever I have to press 1 for English, I think of them.

Maybe this year I'll include a picture of my hand, with one finger, to represent using one finger to press one for English?

Bob, 00LT

[Tbird]

Howard,

Again I agree with you in principle. It's always best to leave it to the pros. But passive tactics don't seem to work or get any attention in these matters. This man's actions sure did! The liberal bleeding-heart media for the most part usually sides with and sympathizes with the illegals. Any more the local authorities are afraid to intervene do to loud minority or activist backlash.

I've never fought in war. But I can't imagine the disgust and disrespect felt by Vets having suffered through combat seeing fellow soldiers die beside you to protect a flag and a country and then come back home and have to stand idle watching while intruders and sympathizers from another country raise their foreign flag on American soil. That's probably outright TREASON in their eyes...and worthy of ACTION...not words!

+1 Kevin on an ICE action!!!

I live a couple miles outside of El Paso, TX in southern New Mexico. We've had a couple of ICE roundups of illegals in Chaparral and Socorro (cities surrounding El Paso) in the last two weeks. What has been the result? School districts complaining of significantly dropped attendance because the illegal parents are keeping their children home. Community demonstrations by the ignorant decrying that it's illegal to deport illegals and that they are being unfairly picked on. The media heavily weighting their coverage to the demonstrators giving the impression that they support them (and thus are right) and leading the zombie public to believe that the community doesn't want these raids.

I just got home from Wallyworld. Baird's bread was putting up a display...and they have a mexican flag hung over it. I got plans for that flag next time I'm in there! We got a huge German military presence here due to Holloman and Ft. Bliss. I've never seen a German flag flown in public here. They respect.

Crap...now I'm riled.

[BecketMa]

Totally lacking is news coverage of what Congress could be doing to close the boarder, why they do nothing, and why Congress ties other issues onto closing our boarder.

Bob

[UncleRock]

Condone ? Hell yes !
The American government condones "undocumented workers" because they're cheap labor for the businesses that support their campaigns.
SO WHAT

They never deal with the "illegal" part of it.
SO WHAT

Immigration officers are getting gunned down along the Mex. border.
SO WHAT

It isn't theft, it's rescuing the symbol of our great country from disgrace.
YOUR RIGHT ITS NOT JUST THEFT.TAKING THE PROPERTY OF ANOTHER WHILE ARMED WITH A KNIFE IS ARMED ROBBERY

In the City I grew up in, it might have been a Polish immmigrant that took it away from those fools.
ARMED WTIH A PEROGIE INSTEAD?:rotf:

Since most DA's are elected, I think you'll see another example of not doing their job in this case. It is an open and shut case that the guy took the flag on film at knife point. Easy conviction, but even though they swore to uphold the law, it will be political suicide, so their oath will mean nothing. (kidda like a congressman or president)
Rock
PS wonder if the Americans (native peoples) felt when the white man came and stole the land. That there elected chief's weren't doing the job of protecting the tribe.

[STARFIGHTER]

Good point Rock.When was the last time a phone message said "press three for Cherokee"?

[early1]

Civil disobedience when faced with outrageous acts by government or individuals has a firmly documented basis in the history of the United States.
I view this episode in such light.

As to the mismanagement of our country by our elected representatives, THAT IS OUR FAULT.
Do you not recall in civics 'RECALL" elections.

We are far to willing to place responsibility elsewhere.
Just as we are far to cowardly (not smart, not law abiding) to act on courage and conviction to Do the Right Thing.

Such as good citizens in this country used to do ; ie-citizens arrest, reporting crimes,truancy and suspicious or frankly illegal activity when observed, and on and on.

Tolerance of "Diversity" only goes as fall as it remains legal.

[jayjacobson]

It isn't theft, it's rescuing the symbol of our great country from disgrace.
YOUR RIGHT ITS NOT JUST THEFT.TAKING THE PROPERTY OF ANOTHER WHILE ARMED WITH A KNIFE IS ARMED ROBBERY.

Actually, in this case, said property was NOT under the control of another. So the taking of the property is simple petty theft (and vandalism). If the store owner had intervened, and demanded the return of his flag, that could have changed things a bit.

It's sad, but not surprising, that a veteran was the first to take action. The dude picking up the Mexican flag on the ground probably didn't even speak English. Sadder still!