06 RT FD gone, 3600

[LAF]

Friend who converted me to BMW from Harley just lost his FD on his new 06 1200 RT at 3600.

He used to drive an 1150, after I bought my LT he moved to a 06 1200. Just got 3600 and was complaining of tire cupping and some bad handling.

He took it in as I had said to him I read here that sometimes tire mounting on the front and not bouncing out the front before final torque will do it and ask the dealer to give it a shot or maybe he got a bad tire.

Nope was determined FD in its early stages.

We will see how his "fixed" FD holds up. Do not know if they replaced or repaired but will know that later today after he picks it up.

I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about it at all.

[LAF]

Just talked to him and they removed a FD from a RT-P they had on the floor and put that in for him.

No rebuild, a replacement as one would expect. Pretty happy for him in that they did not try to repair it.

[Ted Shred]

Friend who converted me to BMW from Harley just lost his FD on his new 06 1200 RT at 3600.

He used to drive an 1150, after I bought my LT he moved to a 06 1200. Just got 3600 and was complaining of tire cupping and some bad handling.

He took it in as I had said to him I read here that sometimes tire mounting on the front and not bouncing out the front before final torque will do it and ask the dealer to give it a shot or maybe he got a bad tire.

Nope was determined FD in its early stages.

We will see how his "fixed" FD holds up. Do not know if they replaced or repaired but will know that later today after he picks it up.

I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about it at all.

Tire cupping and feathering has never been a symptom of a FD bearing failure. The bearing fails too quickly to cause anything like that. It's more likley that he was running his tire pressure too low...

I'll bet $$$ that his tires look the same after another 3600 miles...

[LAF]

Only relaying how it transpired.
I leave it up to all of the experts on this forum to speculate what is so or not.
His complaint was poor front end handeling and he felt his front tire was cupped or feathering.
I am pretty sure he runs 42/48 as we compare notes pretty well and he has asked more then once what I run.
I know on a bike with duel rear shocks going bad will induce front end wobble and could see a rear wheel wobble would in fact have an effect on front end steering and tire wear.



Tire cupping and feathering has never been a symptom of a FD bearing failure. The bearing fails too quickly to cause anything like that. It's more likley that he was running his tire pressure too low...

I'll bet $$$ that his tires look the same after another 3600 miles...
:)

[Ted Shred]

Only relaying how it transpired.
I leave it up to all of the experts on this forum to speculate what is so or not.
His complaint was poor front end handeling and he felt his front tire was cupped or feathering.
I am pretty sure he runs 42/48 as we compare notes pretty well and he has asked more then once what I run.
I know on a bike with duel rear shocks going bad will induce front end wobble and could see a rear wheel wobble would in fact have an effect on front end steering and tire wear.




:)

Sounds like his dealer was just looking for some warranty work...

[LAF]

Sounds like his dealer was just looking for some warranty work...
Well it is one of 3 we have in a relatively close area here. It is also the one I RAN from. I go about 50 each way to my dealer and am content with that as the Service Manager is second to none.

If it was what you insinuated, then that is really sad.

This friend is a teacher and a pretty sharp cookie so I don't think they could catch him sleeping. Also he has gone to them and had the same person wrench his bike for close to 8 years now.

The wrench did tell the owner of the Dealership that all of his latest schooling has said to replace and not repair the FD. I hope that is true, and the latest in attitude on FD.

Again not sure where what I perceive to be a hostile environment comes from in this post, but it was meant as informational nothing more.

I just found it interesting that he complained of front end tire and steering issues and it progressed to a FD, and with only 3600 miles.

It is what it is.................

[Ted Shred]

Well it is one of 3 we have in a relatively close area here. It is also the one I RAN from. I go about 50 each way to my dealer and am content with that as the Service Manager is second to none.

If it was what you insinuated, then that is really sad.

This friend is a teacher and a pretty sharp cookie so I don't think they could catch him sleeping. Also he has gone to them and had the same person wrench his bike for close to 8 years now.

The wrench did tell the owner of the Dealership that all of his latest schooling has said to replace and not repair the FD. I hope that is true, and the latest in attitude on FD.

Again not sure where what I perceive to be a hostile environment comes from in this post, but it was meant as informational nothing more.

I just found it interesting that he complained of front end tire and steering issues and it progressed to a FD, and with only 3600 miles.

It is what it is.................

Nothing hostile intended. I guess I'm just getting a little tired of all the FD talk. I know from 1st hand experience that many reported FD failures are really something other than an actual bearing failures...

[DaveDragon]

Nothing hostile intended. I guess I'm just getting a little tired of all the FD talk. I know from 1st hand experience that many reported FD failures are really something other than an actual bearing failures...

Ted, have you all at A&S seen any FD failures on R1200GS or RT yet?

[Ted Shred]

Ted, have you all at A&S seen any FD failures on R1200GS or RT yet?

As far as I know, no actual bearing failures. I believe we have seen a very few leaky seals...

I see so many posts on the net about FD failures only to find out that it was a seal or drive shaft issue or input seal or etc etc etc you get the idea.

I know that there are catastrophic failures. Not arguing that. Just think that there are fewer than the talk on the net would have us believe...

[Ted Shred]

Ted, have you all at A&S seen any FD failures on R1200GS or RT yet?

I should say that I don't work in the service department. I do make it a point to spend time back there every day though and have had many conversations with our service manager about this issue. Last time I asked we had replaced a few 1200 drives for seapy/leaky seals...


I see many many more LT's with rear main seal leaks, but that doesn't usually leave ya stranded so it doesn't get the same attention.

[DaveDragon]

As far as I know, no actual bearing failures. I believe we have seen a very few leaky seals...

I see so many posts on the net about FD failures only to find out that it was a seal or drive shaft issue or input seal or etc etc etc you get the idea.

I know that there are catastrophic failures. Not arguing that. Just think that there are fewer than the talk on the net would have us believe...

The tech that tore down my GS FD said it was both Bearing and Outer Seal.
They sent the bad one to da fatherland so I'm told.

Mine started out as a hard tap through the pegs then the seal went and sprayed me down pretty good.

Still the best bike I've ever ridden.

[Ted Shred]

The tech that tore down my GS FD said it was both Bearing and Outer Seal.


You must be riding too fast and too far:D

Hope that was a one time deal for ya...

[DaveDragon]

You must be riding too fast and too far:D

Hope that was a one time deal for ya...

Me too.

I got this burning desire for a new RTP...... Must resist....

[Ted Shred]

Me too.

I got this burning desire for a new RTP...... Must resist....

You must have been eyeing this:)

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/IBRB/images/IBR_web1_01.gif
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/IBRB/images/IBR_web1_04.gif

[Ted Shred]

here's the link if you want more info - http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/IBRB/

[Ted Shred]

Me too.

I got this burning desire for a new RTP...... Must resist....


BTW my area rep says we can order them in ALL white. That would be cool...

[DaveDragon]

You read my mind.

[LAF]

Nothing hostile intended. I guess I'm just getting a little tired of all the FD talk. I know from 1st hand experience that many reported FD failures are really something other than an actual bearing failures...

I see now what has you frustrated.

I will see if I can get more info as to what was the cause, bearing, seal, both?

I really am to the point on the new 07 LT that after 2000 miles I have listed it for sale. Yep gonna take a beating on the price but I refuse to have worries on a FD leaving me stranded.

The poll here shows 161 and of course we are not 100% sure what was truly wrong with each one or what component failed in the FD. There is an issue no doubt about it. It really is semantics though no difference in my mind if a seal is leaking or a bearing is gone, still is a failure and can lead to problems on the road or if moving and the oil goes where it is not supposed to be.

Don't know what the 161 represents to the total number of bikes on this Forum but still too many for me.

I truly am in love with most of the LT but need to move on as I can not live with the thought of being left somewhere or worse.

Will try to get exactly what was wrong and get him to post in the poll and to the other places the poll suggests to get it documented.

[hendsv]

Nothing hostile intended. I guess I'm just getting a little tired of all the FD talk. I know from 1st hand experience that many reported FD failures are really something other than an actual bearing failures...

Ted:

My current ride is a 2006 R1200RT which I purchased after selling my 86 K100RT and I'm trying to make sense of all of these FD issues since my dealer is now encouraging me to have the fluid changed the next time I bring the bike in. Since I had never heard of a FD failure on a BMW, I'm getting hung-up on terminology here.

From my perspective the FD transfers power from dis place to dat place and I don't care what causes the failure (seals, shaft, bearings, housing cracks, fluid, etc.) - a failure is a failure. Am I missing something?

[spike3665]

I just hit 2200 miles on my 07 RT and it has had a leak since the 500 mile mark. Now it it starting to get more oil on the wheel as time passes (just enough to to make the wheel really dirty and a complete mess).

[motoguy128]

I'd have the dealer check the o-ring seals on the drain & fill plugs on the FD. I had a bad leak on mine and it covered the whole back end with oil in just 60 miles or so.

I agree with A&S that a seal leak is not a FD failure.

[Ted Shred]

Ted:

My current ride is a 2006 R1200RT which I purchased after selling my 86 K100RT and I'm trying to make sense of all of these FD issues since my dealer is now encouraging me to have the fluid changed the next time I bring the bike in. Since I had never heard of a FD failure on a BMW, I'm getting hung-up on terminology here.

From my perspective the FD transfers power from dis place to dat place and I don't care what causes the failure (seals, shaft, bearings, housing cracks, fluid, etc.) - a failure is a failure. Am I missing something?

If the bearing fails ie breaks down. That's a failure. That leaves ya stranded and the bike unridable. Some seepage from one of the seals MAY eventually cause a failure but you have plenty of warning. These other things like cupping front tires and shaft issues, output shaft leaks are an inconvenience but RARELY leave the bike unridable and AREN'T FD failures...

[LAF]

In this FAILURE it was in fact the bearing. Confirmed today.

Semantics gentlemen, any time a component, or one of it's parts fail, it is indeed a failure, period.

You cant twist it and turn it and play what if all day long. If a seal goes bad and leaks the fluid it is supposed to be holding in an area, that is a failure. If a bearing goes and allows play, it is a failure. It really is that simple.

You can debate it all day long but it is failure.

Until this hit so close to home I would believe it was negative Internet hype.

Now I am so sorry I am stuck with an overpriced time bomb I cant stand it. I am desperately trying to get 19,000 out of a 26,000 investment of less then 3 months that I cant even enjoy riding it any longer. 7k wasted as if I burned it in the fireplace. I actually HATE the bike for the negative monetary situation it as placed me in, and the feeling of it can blow anytime. I know a bike or car for that matters devalues as soon as you put the tags on, but I am less willing to accept it on this purchase, and very resentful that this bike is nothing more then a ticking time bomb. Yes I have warranty but what a bunch of stick you head in the sand crap not owning up to this, and standing behind these failures after the 36k. Pure Horse Hockey.

I asked my friend go to the site listed on the poll, and enter in the failure.

For all the good that will do.

[Ted Shred]

In this FAILURE it was in fact the bearing. Confirmed today.

Semantics gentlemen, any time a component, or one of it's parts fail, it is indeed a failure, period.

You cant twist it and turn it and play what if all day long. If a seal goes bad and leaks the fluid it is supposed to be holding in an area, that is a failure. If a bearing goes and allows play, it is a failure. It really is that simple.

You can debate it all day long but it is failure.

Until this hit so close to home I would believe it was negative Internet hype.

Now I am so sorry I am stuck with an overpriced time bomb I cant stand it. I am desperately trying to get 19,000 out of a 26,000 investment of less then 3 months that I cant even enjoy riding it any longer. 7k wasted as if I burned it in the fireplace. I actually HATE the bike for the negative monetary situation it as placed me in, and the feeling of it can blow anytime. I know a bike or car for that matters devalues as soon as you put the tags on, but I am less willing to accept it on this purchase, and very resentful that this bike is nothing more then a ticking time bomb. Yes I have warranty but what a bunch of stick you head in the sand crap not owning up to this, and standing behind these failures after the 36k. Pure Horse Hockey.

I asked my friend go to the site listed on the poll, and enter in the failure.

For all the good that will do.

It's too bad your friend has this happen to his bike. However, it did not leave him stranded and was fixed under warranty in what seems like a reasonable period of time. If you are going to sell your LT because of this, THAT is really too bad. It is a great bike that thousands of people have purchased and rode for millions of miles and smiles.

If you think there is a product out there that can never fail, you're kidding yourself. Buy a pair of Nikes and start walking. Any machine built by man can and will break at some point.

Good luck...

[LAF]

Good news is my friend registered the FD on the Traffic Safety Site.

Bad news is the RT-P FD may be going after 200 miles.

He has an appointment today so hope to hear from him soon. He said he thought the tires were low or going flat. Got it home put it on the center stand and said he had NO side to side play.

I told him to make darn sure his tires are up on air, he swore they were, and take the long way to the dealers to be sure. I then told him to ask for new tires if they can not say for SURE it is the FD, and check the air before he rides off.

He noted that there were pretty many 06 RT FD failures listed on the Traffic site.

Just when this LT plays it sweet song of "ride me", and I listen, and start to fall in love again, the Vaseline, with extra sand shows up :eek:

Seriously, I do love the bike but damn it just don't seem right this has been going on for so long, and not been addressed. It really is a very fine machine other then this nagging one issue.

I have decided I am going to ride the snot out of it for 36,000 miles/ 3 years, and see how it goes, as it beats taking a financial bath. I do not abuse bikes but I will run them, and this one is getting run. :)

I HOPE all 161 of the poll respondents go to the National Traffic site and ENTERS their information. I see this as my (our) only hope. My friend did, as he understands as others here, that it will only happen when the magic number of failures are meet on that site.

Will let you know if he has to post on the National site again. :(

[Tracus]

Since my friend Lee has made reference to my experience, I feel somewhat compelled to get in on this thread.

1. Purchased a Demo '06 R1200RT in August. It had approximately 2600 miles on it. After 800 miles I began to notice a wobble at the front of the bike. Not unlike the shifty feeling when caught in the turbulence behind an 18 wheeler; except in this case there was nobody in front of me.

2. At 3600 miles, after adjusting tire pressures and the ESA at various settings to see if there was an improvement and having no luck I took the bike to the dealer. I was called later in the day saying the problem in the front was being caused by a problem in the back - the final drive had a bad bearing.

3. The next day I was told my bike had a new drive (taken from the showroom RT-P). I've added 200+ miles since then and have noticed a significant improvement.

4. LAF mentions that I may have thought this new drive might also be failing. Please check out my post entitled "Top case turbulence." Which will be posted sometime later.

5. I have listed my failure with NHTSA and noticed I am not alone in my posting.

6. Finally - I do not consider myself lucky in the fact that I was not stranded. "Hey Mrs. Lincoln! Other than that, how was the play?" I owned my R1150RS for five years and spent a fair amount of time riding in the hinterlands of Nova Scotia (Meat Cove) and West Virginia (Arbovale) and never gave a thought about being stranded. This confidence was based solely on BMW's reputation. I also realize that this confidence would decrease as the bike aged and I added more miles. That's just part of the game.

However, a final drive failure after only 3600 miles does nothing but give me a nagging feeling in the back of my brain while I'm riding. So, I will continue riding and enjoying, but that nagging voice is going to be around for a while.

Take care,
Chris

[Ted Shred]

Since my friend Lee has made reference to my experience, I feel somewhat compelled to get in on this thread.

1. Purchased a Demo '06 R1200RT in August. It had approximately 2600 miles on it. After 800 miles I began to notice a wobble at the front of the bike. Not unlike the shifty feeling when caught in the turbulence behind an 18 wheeler; except in this case there was nobody in front of me.

2. At 3600 miles, after adjusting tire pressures and the ESA at various settings to see if there was an improvement and having no luck I took the bike to the dealer. I was called later in the day saying the problem in the front was being caused by a problem in the back - the final drive had a bad bearing.

3. The next day I was told my bike had a new drive (taken from the showroom RT-P). I've added 200+ miles since then and have noticed a significant improvement.

4. LAF mentions that I may have thought this new drive might also be failing. Please check out my post entitled "Top case turbulence." Which will be posted sometime later.

5. I have listed my failure with NHTSA and noticed I am not alone in my posting.

6. Finally - I do not consider myself lucky in the fact that I was not stranded. "Hey Mrs. Lincoln! Other than that, how was the play?" I owned my R1150RS for five years and spent a fair amount of time riding in the hinterlands of Nova Scotia (Meat Cove) and West Virginia (Arbovale) and never gave a thought about being stranded. This confidence was based solely on BMW's reputation. I also realize that this confidence would decrease as the bike aged and I added more miles. That's just part of the game.

However, a final drive failure after only 3600 miles does nothing but give me a nagging feeling in the back of my brain while I'm riding. So, I will continue riding and enjoying, but that nagging voice is going to be around for a while.

Take care,
Chris

Thanks for the update Chris.

[hendsv]

Thanks for the update Chris.


Ted: Thank you for your thank you. Also, I now understand when a failure is a failure and when a failure is not a failure. Cheers.