Concours 14 vs BMW GT vs FJR--Cycle World

[petevandyke]

Just got this month's Cycle World, FINALLY someone actually ran the Concours through it's paces instead of just reporting "claimed" stats...

0-60 3.0 seconds

measured top speed 160 mph

1/4 mile 10.91 @ 126.54 mph

136.9 corrected rear wheel horsepower @ 9200 rpm
(BMW GT did 130.0, FJR 128 on the same dyno)

92.1 foot-pounds torque @ 7,300 RPM

658 pounds dry, 698 wet

and, throwing down the gauntlet for those of you who own 'em...

"Both the Yamaha and BMW have magnificent engines, but the Kawasaki, thanks to its displacement advantage, VVT and other engine management, simply makes more power and torque everywhere, all the time. It's just a better powerplant."

The magazine did pitch a major fit about how ridiculous it is that Kawi touts this thing as a trans-continental sports tourer" yet you have to press a button on the dash to switch between computer display, there's no ambient temp function, you can't get cruise or heated seats or heated grips, electronic-adjustable suspension, no nav system available, and said that a top box, gel seats, larger windscreen are all in the works.

Interesting article, it basically says that the concours is the closest thing to the perfect, what they call an "it bike" (all possible things) ever...yeah, ever.

Maybe the next generation will scrap the KI-PASS junk and put that $1,000+ into heated seats, grips, maybe sound...


anyone know the 1/4 mile, measured top speed and dyno-measured torque numbers on the GT?

[dwsdad]

Biggest complaints I've read about the C14 is the heat cooking your right leg. Unlike the GT that automatically flips to miles-to-empty, the Connie guys have to push buttons - combinations if I remember reading correctly.

The windshield recieves low marks from the owners and any reviews I've seen.

The article is correct in my opinion: How can you have a "Transcontinental Tourer" without a cruise control and/or heated anything? Then the debate starts amoung those that don't like cruise saying you don't need one.

I studied it hard - real hard. The deciding factors for me:

- cruise
- adjustable bars and seat
- heated grips and seat
- ESA
- overall suspension system

The Connie is a great bike, but for me the GT answered all my questions.

[petevandyke]

(I'd love to put either one in my garage next to the LT...)

[motoguy128]

The data I have from Motorcyclist... shows the GT at 11.30 @ 123mph and 673lbs wet. The regular FJR was 11.02 @ 124 and 641lbs wet.

To be honest... I think Kawi is trying to compete more directly with the FJR and Honda ST1300, and suceeds well in overall execution and features.

I don't think any sport touring comparison is complete without putting passengers on the bike. I though i read that about 30% of ST rigs carry passengers regularly. I would expect the GT to win hands down on passenger comfort. I give BMW a lot of credit for designing their bikes to carry passenger as part of it's mission, not an afterthought. The heated seat has already paid for itself on cool evenings where my wife would normally need ot stop and put the liner in her mesh jacket, she just turns on the seat and enjoys the extra heat.

Overall 0.4 seconds in the 1/4 mile and 2mph is still pretty even. The BMW does pretty well considering it's giving up 200cc's to the Kawi.

[dwsdad]

I think you're right. Kawasaki's target is the Honda and the Yamaha. The FJR has been killing them since it was introduced.

From what I'm hearing and reading, the passengers are not happy on the Connie. The bags are too high, the pegs are too small, and they get too much buffeting. It's amazing how many guys are trying to move from the Wing to the C14 and the wives are nixing it because they like the accomodations on the Wing better...DUH!!!

The C14, FJR and the GT all put out more power than anyone really needs I think - at least for me they do. I think it's how much smoother the C14 is than any other bike out there right now that is really wowing folks.

[petevandyke]

well the big argument against the BMW in the reviews of the Concours is price...

but if you take the Kawasaki, and add a different windshield (if you're 6 foot or taller, a must), then buy aftermarket heated grips, have a custom heated seat made, buy a top case when they come out, throw on a zumo with a custom mount so it sits in the center and doesn't oddly weight one side of the bars, the passenger backrest mentioned in the article, replacement footpegs, and train a monkey to operate the throttle in exchange for bananas when you would have used your cruise control on the GT, there ain't gonna' be much of a price difference any more...

If only BMW would put the LT on a diet to the tune of about 170 pounds and jack it up on steroids to the tune of about 60 bhp...

[motoguy128]

I need a test ride more motorcycles. The Kawi, Yama dealer next door to my BMW dealer was offering test rides on the FJR... amd when the Connie is more available, I suspect they will have test rides on that too. Heck, you cold pull up on a Sat. and tes all 3 back to back.


BMW is pretty quiet on the LT. I suspect to keep costs down, they will use a stretched GT chassis with the new K motor detuned for more bottom end. I'm not sure that motor is flexible enough however... the current "brick" is a very long stroke motor with good bottom end an midrange nessesary for a heavy tourer... that might be why BMW is taking their time.


I think it will definitely get the new paralever rear end and the duolever front end. I wonder if you could see a long stroke 1250cc variant of hte GT motor sightly lower compression ratio. I wonder if BMW is testing a set of vairable valve timing heads to go with it. I'd look for 140HP and 98 ft-lbs to the crank. Bigger cases, bigger fuel tank, 180 section rear tire, ESA, ASC, and a slightly shorter wheelbase than the current LT. I'd expect enough comfort to satisfy current LT owners... but a lighter feeling (if only 50lbs or so lighter), quicker steering machine. Anyone think there might be some more power features. Power adjustable bars, power adjustable pegs front and rear, power seat, keep the reverse function and hydralic centerstand. Maybe even power locks on a key fob type key.

[petevandyke]

I need a test ride more motorcycles. The Kawi, Yama dealer next door to my BMW dealer was offering test rides on the FJR... amd when the Connie is more available, I suspect they will have test rides on that too. Heck, you cold pull up on a Sat. and tes all 3 back to back.


BMW is pretty quiet on the LT. I suspect to keep costs down, they will use a stretched GT chassis with the new K motor detuned for more bottom end. I'm not sure that motor is flexible enough however... the current "brick" is a very long stroke motor with good bottom end an midrange nessesary for a heavy tourer... that might be why BMW is taking their time.


I think it will definitely get the new paralever rear end and the duolever front end. I wonder if you could see a long stroke 1250cc variant of hte GT motor sightly lower compression ratio. I wonder if BMW is testing a set of vairable valve timing heads to go with it. I'd look for 140HP and 98 ft-lbs to the crank. Bigger cases, bigger fuel tank, 180 section rear tire, ESA, ASC, and a slightly shorter wheelbase than the current LT. I'd expect enough comfort to satisfy current LT owners... but a lighter feeling (if only 50lbs or so lighter), quicker steering machine. Anyone think there might be some more power features. Power adjustable bars, power adjustable pegs front and rear, power seat, keep the reverse function and hydralic centerstand. Maybe even power locks on a key fob type key.


Well, last year at bonneville one of the 300+ mph "motorcycles" that shattered high speed records contained TWO turbocharged hayabusa engines (I think a belt broke keeping them from a second run and the record).

I have the solution for BMW...don't know why they didn't come up with this on their own.

Keep the comfort, STRETCH the wheelbase, add more built-in goodies, and put not one but TWO of the new k1200s engines in the mofo.

BMWNA, you can call it the K1200 LT-P for Pete

[Nodakgus]

The Kawi sounds like a great bike to "ride". I would love to have a couple of hours with it. But, when all is said and done, when I am planning a long trip, I want a bike that will deliver all-day comfort, day-after-day. I would not like the prospect of a long trip without cruise. Not every road is twisting and sweeping.

And, being that I ride year-round, to take a trip into cool weather (and certainly into cold weather) not having heated grips gives me the "chills". Having part of my anatomy baked on all days rides is not too appealing either.

Ambiant air temp is important in cold weather driving. I don't want to tape a thermometer to my dash board. Last, I am also spoiled by having the ESA on my 1200RT.

For long-distance touring, the Kawi needs to bring these creature comforts to the game for me ever to have a serious interest in leaving BMW.

[alanforn]

Looks like the Concours is going to work out for me. I was looking at the GT, however I'd have to sell the LT. After seat time on the LT, there ain't no way the wife is going to let me sell the LT. Just as well, I'd end up losing money if I did. So, I was looking into buying a ZX-11, Blackbird or even Busa and spend some money to make a bit more comfy. Then I hear about the Concours...would be easier/better than retrofitting either of the three aforementioned rides.
There was no way I could of made the sell on the GT,($$$), I tried. However I did make the sell on the Concours. So... LT for the wife, long trips and to drive back/forth to work, Concours for the twisties, airhead cafe for the "rocker" in me and the 47 Matchless for when I want to appreciate how far motorcycling has come!
Of course, I haven't purchased the C14 yet, but the bait has been set....

[JMeese]

Check out the new Victory vision in the American Motorcyclist mag. page 26-27 look at the options gey if it had a power windshield LOL also look at the engine and where your legs would be while ridding with the new wind tunnel front end will fry the rider to the seat but very sleek looking.

[shadowofshoe]

[QUOTE=motoguy128]I need a test ride more motorcycles. The Kawi, Yama dealer next door to my BMW dealer was offering test rides on the FJR... amd when the Connie is more available, I suspect they will have test rides on that too. Heck, you cold pull up on a Sat. and tes all 3 back to back.


Not in my town .

Mike

[dwsdad]

Mine either

[petevandyke]

ditto that, yamaha dealerships in the DFW area almost require a DNA sample and credit report to let you SIT on one in the dealership, forget asking to test ride one, when I asked the Kawi salesman if I could "hear what the engine sounded like" he had to get permission from the owner before starting it in the showroom, and almost had a heart attack when I cracked the throttle to more than 4,000 rpm, and I haven't been lucky enough yet to catch the local BMW shop I patronize with a GT demo.

Maybe a road trip to your neck of the woods...could be a RTEAD--ride to eat and demo

[motoguy128]

I think having a BMW dealer 200 yards away has made them more flexible in their test ride policy. BMW has that effect of raising expectations of riders. I imagine their service department is fairly top notch. They had 1 FRJ just for demo rides and 2 on the floor for sale.

Funny though, despite having 3 sales people, the Yamaha/suzuki/kawi dealer had several customers and I imagine sold a few bikes. The BMW dealer sold I think 5 bikes... 4 RT's that Sat. afternoon I as there. The BMW dealer is half the size with about 1/4 the inventory and has 1 sales guy. It's probably not a fiar comparison because they serve nearly a 200 mile radius.

[wardenross]

IMHO Kawasaki was trying to keep the price down on the new Connie. At $12800 they have apparently done that. For that price, folks will live without some things like cruise, etc. I don't think Kawi give a rip about the BMW GT. They are going head to head against the Honda ST and Yamaha FJR.

I bet in six months Kawasaki will be selling so many of the Connie units, it soon will be the standard that BMW will have to compete against, not viceversa.

$12800 is soooooo tempting!

But my Triumph is quicker and faster...I'll just keep the LT........ and the Sprint for when I feel frisky!

[dmatson]

A dealer by me had one sitting on the showroom floor today so i sat on it, it is tall. I have ohlins on my LT and the Connie is taller. Very nice bike though.

[meese]

...but if you take the Kawasaki, and add a different windshield (if you're 6 foot or taller, a must), then buy aftermarket heated grips, have a custom heated seat made, buy a top case when they come out, throw on a zumo with a custom mount so it sits in the center and doesn't oddly weight one side of the bars, the passenger backrest mentioned in the article, replacement footpegs, and train a monkey to operate the throttle in exchange for bananas when you would have used your cruise control on the GT, there ain't gonna' be much of a price difference any more...To be fair, my GT got a new windshield, seat, top case, GPS, and peg extenders the day I picked it up, so there's no real savings there. The grips, cruise, ABS, TPM, ASC, etc. are well worth the extra $$ though. And the FJR has no cruise but a lot of guys have fitted aftermarket kits, so you know there will be a kit for the C14.

If only BMW would put the LT on a diet to the tune of about 170 pounds and jack it up on steroids to the tune of about 60 bhp...Agreed. I still want a K1200RT with the new motor and suspension, but I'll settle for a new LT if they can keep the weight down and bring the power up.