Admin reputation system update

[KBandit]

first, i would like to thank the administrators for the time and effort that went into your recent program to grade us based on our behaviors. no small undertaking, that. no doubt you deliberated carefully, then labored long and hard.

i'd like to take this opportunity to summarize the outcome of that cute little project:

1) the survey shows that most subscribers oppose the system
2) the system you developed violates your own guideline, to whit:

"… personal attacks, harassment, and blatantly offensive posts meant to polarize or incite the group ARE NOT TOLERATED"

with this outcome in mind, and applying the principles of your own program, it seems logical to assume that all posts from all board administrators will, from now on, be emblazoned with the "little red square of shame." after all, the majority of subscribers voted against your prize program. that must mean you have a negative "credibility rating."

you DO plan to live up to the spirit of the program ... don't you? or are you above your own rules?

oh, and by the way ... i hope you do not find this post personally inflammatory in any way. it was not intended as such. as you say in your own words, "it is up to YOU to interpret your rating for yourself."

all the best and happy holidays,

-your colleague in red-square shame

p.s., you will note i posted this under "chit chat" so that it does not violate your humor guidelines, even though i think the whole thing is quite a knee-slapper.

[DaveDragon]

Gary, your problem is obvious:

http://rianjs.net/images/blog/head_up_ass.jpg

[amarider]

Gerhard,
If you don't like it, then just edit your options and turn it Off.

Oh Dave - You owe me a new keyboard, monitor, and phone. ROFLMAO!

[justincase]

Gerhard,
If you don't like it, then just edit your options and turn it Off.

Oh Dave - You owe me a new keyboard, monitor, and phone. ROFLMAO!

If you turn it off, you get a black-square.

[KBandit]

justin, john ... yeah, i know. i guess i ought to do that. just couldn't resist applying the same logic to the geniuses who cooked up the system to begin with.

jeez.

[DaveDragon]

justin, john ... yeah, i know. i guess i ought to do that. just couldn't resist applying the same logic to the geniuses who cooked up the system to begin with.

jeez.


That would be the developers of vBulletin Version 3.0.9

[rixchard]

Might be nothing more than a case of overfarkling the forum. As a software developer I have seen (and participated in) this behavior more often that I like.

I admit that since the subject has come up I have been randomly tossing out points here and there. Would you like me to give one to you? I can do approve or disaprove, your call.

Now don't get me started on how difficult it is to read threads with the new layout.

[BkrK12]

first, i would like to thank the administrators for the time and effort that went into your recent program to grade us based on our behaviors. no small undertaking, that. no doubt you deliberated carefully, then labored long and hard.

i'd like to take this opportunity to summarize the outcome of that cute little project:

1) the survey shows that most subscribers oppose the system
2) the system you developed violates your own guideline, to whit:

"… personal attacks, harassment, and blatantly offensive posts meant to polarize or incite the group ARE NOT TOLERATED"

with this outcome in mind, and applying the principles of your own program, it seems logical to assume that all posts from all board administrators will, from now on, be emblazoned with the "little red square of shame." after all, the majority of subscribers voted against your prize program. that must mean you have a negative "credibility rating."

you DO plan to live up to the spirit of the program ... don't you? or are you above your own rules?

oh, and by the way ... i hope you do not find this post personally inflammatory in any way. it was not intended as such. as you say in your own words, "it is up to YOU to interpret your rating for yourself."

all the best and happy holidays,

-your colleague in red-square shame

p.s., you will note i posted this under "chit chat" so that it does not violate your humor guidelines, even though i think the whole thing is quite a knee-slapper.
I don't think you can fairly say that the majority disapprove. It would be more fair to say that only (approximately) 25% approve, at this time. "I don't have an opinion" and " I need to give it more time" don't really qualify as disapproval. I do note that the "approval " percentages have suddenly jumped over the past day or so. I wonder what that is about?

That being said, The Admins and Mods have asked for feedback, which has been provided, along with some questions. I would still like to hear, from the initiator of this idea, why it is considered to be such a good idea and what problem is being solved, that wasn't already solvable some other way.

Now I think i'll go edit my profile to disable this feature.

[eljeffe]

Now don't get me started on how difficult it is to read threads with the new layout.

Did you try the PDA friendly mode?

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/archive/index.php/?pda=1

Have you tried any of the options in the New Activity menu?

Threads Since Last Visit: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew
Threads in Last Day: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily&days=1&showposts=0

Posts in Last 24 Hours: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily&days=1&showposts=1
Posts in Last 48 Hours: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily&days=2&showposts=1
Posts in Last 7 Days: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily&days=7&showposts=1

Or you can do it like I do and get everything through an RSS Reader:

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1066

Read toward the bottom of the thread and you can customize the RSS link to customize which forums you would like to receive feeds from, or just leave that option out to get all posts from the site.

[tnk12lt]

I was in another forum that started this reputation stuff and after a few weeks they "killed" it because of the complaints.
I agree with the original post.
What purpose does the reputation rating serve except to "piss" people off and do it anonymously.

[DaveDragon]

What purpose does the reputation rating serve except to "piss" people off and do it anonymously.

It doesn't have to be anonymous, I sign mine when I rate a post.

[rixchard]

Yep. Tried it, but sadly, It did not give the results I wanted. While i did like the fact of it being all text, the display of all the posts in linear mode just does not suit my way of reading threads. Such is life. Sometime you get just what you want other times you take what you're given and move on to sometheing else to grouse about :)

[tnk12lt]

It doesn't have to be anonymous, I sign mine when I rate a post.


I'm glad you do, but I doubt that many others do. I'd bet it's 90% or higher that comment anonymously. But, of course that's just a guess.

[Malki]

Personally, I don't give a s**t what people think of what I post, if it helps them then fair enuff, if it upsets them then sorry, but getting a score on it, gies a break !! Pointless excercise IMHO.
People post looking for an answer to a problem or a resolution to a problem, a new product available or even a cheeky comment in the thread, so what, it keeps this place alive, and I keep coming back because of that. :cool:

[tnk12lt]

Personally, I don't give a s**t what people think of what I post, if it helps them then fair enuff, if it upsets them then sorry, but getting a score on it, gies a break !! Pointless excercise IMHO.
People post looking for an answer to a problem or a resolution to a problem, a new product available or even a cheeky comment in the thread, so what, it keeps this place alive, and I keep coming back because of that. :cool:


Excellent post.....I agree....I should add to your rep.

[meese]

Yeah, that's helpful, Dave. Thanks for contributing in a positive and constructive manner. Sheesh.

[ksailor]

Never believed in rating folks on what they say, only on trying to understand where they are coming from. Much is technical, some tongue-in-cheek, some very funny and heart lifting (personally I look forward to reading Ted), others of personal opinion.

Why bother to rate someone? Enjoy who they are and accept folks at face value. (talk about opinion...)

[artk50]

:) I'm afraid that it is going to damage my sensitive nature 'cause I'm so thin skinned

[Randy]

first, i would like to thank the administrators for the time and effort that went into your recent program to grade us based on our behaviors. no small undertaking, that. no doubt you deliberated carefully, then labored long and hard.

i'd like to take this opportunity to summarize the outcome of that cute little project:

1) the survey shows that most subscribers oppose the systemActually the current poll results show: 34.10% opposed
24.28% in favor
23.70% who want to wait and see
17.92% who really could care less So the results actually show that most of the respondents either like it or would like to give it more time. We really didn't labor at all on the system. It is included with vBulletin and has been in place since the day we rolled the new software out. We only changed some of the settings to reduce the possibility of abuse.

2) the system you developed violates your own guideline, to whit:

"… personal attacks, harassment, and blatantly offensive posts meant to polarize or incite the group ARE NOT TOLERATED" Please explain to me how this system violates that or any of our guidelines. If a red dot, or a green dot or a black dot (should you decide to disable the reporting) incites, inflames or polarizes the group I would be very surprised. Oh, and by the way you might look at the current guidelines, that particular section was revised a couple of weeks ago. The current guidelines can be viewed here (http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/guidelines.php?). Personally I could care less about the reputation system and choose to ignore it. It means nothing to me. My opinion of any member is purely guided by how helpful or constructive I view his (or her) contributions.

with this outcome in mind, and applying the principles of your own program, it seems logical to assume that all posts from all board administrators will, from now on, be emblazoned with the "little red square of shame." after all, the majority of subscribers voted against your prize program. that must mean you have a negative "credibility rating."?As I said above there is (and never has been) a majority of subscribers opposed to the system, a misstatement such as that is more reflective of your credibility than anything the reputation system might indicate. Your facts are simply wrong. If you disagree with anything I may post on this site, feel free to ding me with negative points any time you wish. But please do not lump me in the collective 'you' as you use it above to describe the management of this site site.

you DO plan to live up to the spirit of the program ... don't you? or are you above your own rules?Asked and answered above.

As I said above I really could care less about the reputation system and in time we may turn it off. The reason I put the poll up in the first place is to get a feel for exactly what our membership thinks about the system. Distorting the numbers to insinuate that we have a clear majority who either want it to stay or want it gone really doesn't help. In the mean time any member who wishes to can disable it under options in the UserCP. The little reputation dot, like many other things in front of us each day, can be ignored if we really dont feel it is relevant.

As a hopeless pragmatist, the tone of your post had little effect on my perception of you, I am more interested in the content. But if you take this tone often in your posts I can see why you might incite others to ding your reputation. Condescension is not a very endearing quality.

For the record my email is randy@bmwlt.com and I am able to receive PMs. As the Chief Administrator of this community and the Manager of Enthusiast Communities, LLC, I welcome and appreciate any feedback any of our members wish to provide. This community is always evolving and we put a great deal of personal time and effort into its evolution. There are many dedicated Moderators assisting us in this continuing evolution. Some changes are driven by technical requirements and some are driven by our passion to provide all of you with the best, most vibrant, active and rewarding special interest web community we possibly can. That doesn't mean that every feature we add or implement will be successful or even remain in place. It does mean that we will continue to our concerted effort (as we have for over five years) into the continued evolution of this community.

[KBandit]

hi there, randy.

1) data: all i can say is we must be looking at different data and different discussion threads. either that or it really is true that data can mean whatever you want it to mean. BTW ... interesting adam savage quote in your sig line.

2) violating guidelines: if you don't see how the scheme can polarize and incite then nothing i can say here will open your eyes. so i will say nothing.

3) my credibility: THIS, at last, is the crux of the issue. i learned long ago that there is a vast difference between lack of credibility and contrary opinion. i suggest you investigate. we can debate issues like adults from opposing viewpoints without losing credibility. i am disappointed you have weighed our differences to point at a lack of credibility on my part. i would never accuse YOU of lacking creibility because we disagree.

4) condescension: i apologize for my condescending tone, but you may not have noticed that i was trying to emulate the attitude of the administrators in installing the system. i wanted you to know how i felt (and some others, too). it appears i succeeded.

in closing let me thank you for letting me air my opinion openly and honestly without fear of red-square recriminations. i honestly do not know why the red square roils me so much. maybe because it appears, on the outside, that it is intended to herd us like sheep into a common mold.

you may have noticed i make a LOUSY sheep.

best to you and yours during this holiday season.

[danbrew]

Actually the current poll results show: 34.10% opposed
24.28% in favor
23.70% who want to wait and see
17.92% who really could care less So the results actually show that most of the respondents either like it or would like to give it more time. We really didn't labor at all on the system.

The results do not seem to show that most of the respondents like it. You're assuming that the 23.70% are folks who lean towards it when they could just as easily be saying "let's wait and see - but it smells bad." Meaning you actually have almost 58% who are against it...

You almost have to disregard the ambiguous option of wait and see as that really doesn't tell you whether somebody likes or dislikes. Then we're looking at 34 against and 24 in favor. Elections have been won (or lost) on less. Also, would be interesting to know the sample response vs. the total # of users in the community.

[meese]

Hm. Not only do I get a red mark for chastising Dave's poor choice of pics (which I still believe was unwarranted, unhelpful, and in fact bordering on abusive), but in another thread I get a green and a red for the same post.!?! And none of these even bothered to leave comments, much less a name.

Anonymous? As in the Wizard of Oz and the Anonymous Lion? Doesn't really work, does it. At least be willing to back up what you post, or just don't bother.

[KBandit]

i guess it was inevitable that the BMW LT bulletin board would adopt the management philosophies of the BMW Motor Company. the "user reputation" system is their version of the rear drive issue.

"Ve know vat ist gut for you ... alvays remember zat!"

"but statistics clearly show that more board users are against the system than are for it! the rest don't care."

"statistics ... vat statistics? ve have misplaced zese statistics. ve know vat ist gut for you."

"but you published the statistics at one point and said you would abide by them!"

"accchhh ... zose statistics! ve are nicht yet sure about zese statistics. ve vill get back to you. in ze meantime, here iz ein inzulting picture ov you mit your head up your arse! alvays remember ... ve know vat ist gut for you!"

[tmgs]

in another thread I get a green and a red for the same post.!?! And none of these even bothered to leave comments, much less a name.

Anonymous? As in the Wizard of Oz and the Anonymous Lion? Doesn't really work, does it. At least be willing to back up what you post, or just don't bother.


<clink>

[tmgs]

It doesn't have to be anonymous, I sign mine when I rate a post.

Yes you do, one of the few that do so.
Which I respect in a person, It shows what kind of man you really are.

Just to let you know what I think of you.
Well my door is open anytime, My roads are yours.

Tom

[tmgs]

Might be nothing more than a case of overfarkling the forum. As a software developer I have seen (and participated in) this behavior more often that I like.


Now don't get me started on how difficult it is to read threads with the new layout.

Oh come on lets us know <g>

Tom

[tmgs]

Personally, I don't give a s**t what people think of what I post, if it helps them then fair enuff, if it upsets them then sorry, but getting a score on it, gies a break !! Pointless excercise IMHO.
People post looking for an answer to a problem or a resolution to a problem, a new product available or even a cheeky comment in the thread, so what, it keeps this place alive, and I keep coming back because of that. :cool:

<clink>!

Tom

[tmgs]

Oh come on people this is real childish! From everyone involved, is there an adult present?

I've read every reply in this particular thread, and some have good points some are just flat stupid.

I could add to this much but I know for one in particular and I am man enough to say who - Jeff, it would make it just that much harder for me to get along on this board. Heck I've asked to have something done and can't even get a reply now.

So I will keep this simple for now.

I enjoy this board.

I've been helped out from others in here when needed (one time by Jeff while I was in Texas). I have helped out others here as well. My wife and I took a nice ride for the benefit run for Andy (spent some cool cash and got some cool things out of it while helping a FELLOW RIDER)

To me this is what a community of riders is about!! Has everyone forgot that?!?

I've met some really good folks!! ( I could make a list but I might leave someone out which I do not want to happen)

Decent people that love the same thing my family does, MOTORCYCLING!

I used to think no one here would intentionally harm another user in any way, but my mind has been changed on that. I've seen cheap shots by users and admin alike.

Like was told to me from a high and mighty god of the board.<g> Being a part of this community is strictly by volunteer. Remember that works both ways (oops all ways) Admins, Users and Moderators.

We don't have to be here Like it? - stay. Don't like it - leave. I choose to stay.

It's just that dag blasted simple.

I think some of the kidding around has been taken way out of context, not in this thread, but in general, I think it has taken it's toll on many here, AND I'm just as guilty at poking as many others here.

READ THIS ALL

If I have insulted you please accept my apology

Sincerely
Tom Gallo
TMGS

[meese]

I gotta say Gary, I'm not sure you're reading the statistics right. I see a few more people opposed to it than for it, but if you add up the don't cares and wait-and-sees, they're bigger than both other groups. Of course, it's those votes that are the most easily manipulated into supporting whatever side has the power or arrogance to sway the entire system, but that would never work in a real democracy, now would it?

Oops, sorry, off on anther tangent, I guess. ;)

[messenger13]

http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif

[russte]

http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif http://randy.bmwlt.net/beating%2Bdead%2Bhorse.gif

Huh? ;)

[jwp767]

Huh? ;)

There's an expression...."Stop beating a dead horse....."

[messenger13]

Me thinks Tom was just pulling my leg. He's more "American" than you or I. :)