Number 2 and 3 fatality on the Dragon.

[motorman587]

http://www.tailofthedragon.com/

[Randy]

http://www.tailofthedragon.com/That is truly a shame. The yellow line is a dangerous and unforgiving thing. We all have to remain on our side of it and keep an eye out for opposing traffic which might drift across it as well. In our mountain roads here in Colorado, accidents are frequently caused by one or the other.

[pkpr1998]

Luckily we were about 3-4 hours ahead that wreck between the bike and the boat this past Friday. It had the Dragon shut down for several hours.

But more unfortunately, two more people lost their lives.

[Ted]

here is another article w/ a little more detail on both accidents:

http://www.thedailytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070714/NEWS/70714003

[messenger13]

I can only wonder if that Triker got a little too confident with his 3-wheeler.

Sad news...

[Randy]

I can only wonder if that Triker got a little too confident with his 3-wheeler.

Sad news...I'll probably get flamed for this. Many people I know that have switched to trikes have done so because they can no longer feel confident keeping a motorcycle upright. I am sure there are other reasons for riding a trike, but if you can no longer confidently pilot a motorcycle, perhaps a trike is not a good idea either. I have test ridden Harley and GoldWing based trikes and while they will handle fairly well, they can be a handful in tight corners. Depending on front suspension geometry modifications, the steering can take a lot of effort and since they do not lean they will try to toss you in a really tight turn. A trike can be a lot of fun in the hands of a competent rider, but they aren't that benign in a tight turn at speed. The Dragon has a lot of technically difficult turns and they can really sneak up on you.

The Dragon is a whole lot of fun, but if you are overconfident or careless, it will separate you from your bike (or trike). I feel for their family and the other people who were involved in the accident or who witnessed it.

[Tat_n_Telle]

I would love to take the LT to the Dragon, but won't for one simple reason: there just seems to be too many a-holes riding or driving that road! High performance machines with low performance drivers/riders getting themselves in way over their heads and putting everyone else on the road in danger. Yet, if you look at the Killboy photos, you'll still see riders in shorts, tank tops, and sneakers. Can you say road rash?

[KMC1]

Friday’s accident brings the number of traffic fatalities in Blount County for 2007 to 17. By this time in 2006 Blount County had only had nine traffic fatalities.
Well, it's good to see all the press and promotion Darryl has been getting is really paying off for him.
At this rate, he should have sold enough pictures to buy another really nice house and a couple more nice toys, before they ban motorcycles from that area altogether. Good for him.
That place used to be a nice, hidden treasure. Now, it's just an overexposed tourist trap for reckless drivers. It's just too dangerous to even bother going there to ride anymore.

[rando]

Yeah, other than being able to get a shirt that says you;ve been there, I prefer my local roads. I can ride them twice and get about the same amount of curves in about the same amount of distance. And end up at the Blue ridge parkway for a nice relaxing ride afterwards.

Randy

[grifscoots]

Early on a weekday isn't bad at all. I'd never, ever do the Dragon on a weekend.

[kmurphy165]

I'll join the consensus here on my local roads versus "the dragon". Just minutes outside the garage I have a narrow twisting canyon road that's twistier and has more elevation change than the dragon and I don't tell nobody where it is because I don't want to turn it into another tail of the dragon. It's a shame really. But that's the way it is.

I'm living proof of what can happen if you go across the double yellow line in a curve in my case, inadvertent trying to stay upright in a rain storm due to no traction under the water and still got ran over. The universe doesn't care if your heart is pure and you have the best of motives. If you F@#$%# up, then you get hammered.

Karl

[messenger13]

That place used to be a nice, hidden treasure. Now, it's just an overexposed tourist trap for reckless drivers. It's just too dangerous to even bother going there to ride anymore.Monday thru Thursday, you don't have the issues that Friday thru Sunday bring you. I've parked on the side of Rt 129 without seeing a single vehicle for 10 or 15 minutes on a sunny Tuesday afternoon.

[KayGee]

Monday thru Thursday, you don't have the issues that Friday thru Sunday bring you. I've parked on the side of Rt 129 without seeing a single vehicle for 10 or 15 minutes on a sunny Tuesday afternoon.

+1 for weekday Dragon runs. It is a much different place (unless it is during Honda Hoot week in June) during the weekdays.

[K1200LTryder]

Close friends just bought a new house on the TN side, they are moving up there in August. We were talking about the location of the place, and my buddy mentioned the July 12 accident. Apparently, their new home is ON the dragon somewhere ( Madisonville) ? The Real estate agent forgot to inform them about the popularity of the road, ( But I did), and they are a wee bit concerned.

They dont ride,they dont like motorcycles, they even think my LT is loud.

I offered to throw a house warming/camping party at their new abode, since it sits on a 3/4 acre lot, and invite a few buddies to celebrate.....declined.

I've not ridden the dragon, but having spent 20 years in British Columbia, I can well imagine the fun that could be had on that road. But, any crowded road is never fun.

[messenger13]

Apparently, their new home is ON the dragon somewhere...The 11 miles (318 curves) that make up 'The Tail of the Dragon' has no homes on it that I'm aware of. Their home may be on Rt 129, but I'm almost positive that it's not on the actual 'Dragon's Tail'.

None-the-less...even if it's on Rt 129, they are certainly in for seeing a LOT of bikes, and tuner cars all weekend long. I want to feel sorry for them, but am having a little trouble with that part. ;) :p

[messenger13]

Just looked up Madisonville. They're 20 miles due east (as the crow flies) away from the north end of the Dragon. Appears they're off of 411. That isn't going to be that bad for them.

[K1200LTryder]

Just looked up Madisonville. They're 20 miles due east (as the crow flies) away from the north end of the Dragon. Appears they're off of 411. That isn't going to be that bad for them.


LMAO...their new house is on highway 411 N out of Madisonville, somewhere near the entrance.....they want me to stop sending them links to Deals Gap and the Dragon...the SO's are on the phone arguing about it as I post this... :histerica :histerica :histerica

[kola1]

To lose a life is always sad. Last year I rode the Dragon. While I was there I saw all the skill levels of riding. There were riders with very good skill on the Dragon. Just about any one can ride the Dragon if they use some care. Sometimes Sh-t Happens. The Dragon is not a very good place for it to happen. People will be people. As more people come there will be more problems. It is a public road that the people use. When you ride it you must keep that in mind at all times. One day the Dragon will be taken away. We will have only ourselves to blame. No matter how much fun the Dragon is It is not worth the loss of one life.

[DaveRT]

Rode the Dragon in last month 7 times in 3 days. All midweek. I never felt unsafe. Rode all the bike roads in the area with out feeling at risk. We are ATGATT type riders. The only problem is it's 1000 miles from my home. After every run my SO on the back would ask " can we do it again ". I read about the first death the next week after we got home. And now this. Feel sorry for all the families involved. :(

[PMitchell]

Dave,
Rode the Dragon midweek during the RA.
Some adolescent squid passed me on a crotch rocket doing a wheelie. :eek:

Stupidity + ATGATT isn't the best formula "to ride another day'!

:(

[PMitchell]

Dave,
Rode the Dragon midweek during the RA.
Some adolescent squid passed me on a crotch rocket doing a wheelie. :eek:

Stupidity + ATGATT isn't the best formula "to ride another day'!

:(
I like this one!

"Stupidly Quick, Underdressed and Imminently Dead"

[DaveRT]

Dave,
Rode the Dragon midweek during the RA.
Some adolescent squid passed me on a crotch rocket doing a wheelie. :eek:

Stupidity + ATGATT isn't the best formula "to ride another day'!

:(
It wasn't me. I did wave a few faster riders by when it was clear.

[jayjacobson]

....High performance machines with low performance drivers/riders getting themselves in way over their heads and putting everyone else on the road in danger. Yet, if you look at the Killboy photos, you'll still see riders in shorts, tank tops, and sneakers. Can you say road rash?
....That place used to be a nice, hidden treasure. Now, it's just an overexposed tourist trap for reckless drivers. It's just too dangerous to even bother going there to ride anymore.
Lots of great canyons in the So Kal area, also. I generally avoid them cause of the same stupidity. Even after you've seen death & destruction a thousand times, it's still pointless and unnecessary.
To lose a life is always sad. Last year I rode the Dragon. While I was there I saw all the skill levels of riding. There were riders with very good skill on the Dragon. Just about any one can ride the Dragon if they use some care. Sometimes Shit Happens. The Dragon is not a very good place for it to happen. People will be people. As more people come there will be more problems. It is a public road that the people use. When you ride it you must keep that in mind at all times. One day the Dragon will be taken away. We will have only ourselves to blame. No matter how much fun the Dragon is it is not worth the loss of one life.
Why is it so hard to understand the no matter how high the performance of your machine and how good of a rider you are, there must be the allowance for error?! When there is no room for error, we see in vivid full color what happens.

[kmurphy165]

Why is it so hard to understand the no matter how high the performance of your machine and how good of a rider you are, there must be the allowance for error?! When there is no room for error, we see in vivid full color what happens.
Hi, Jay. +1. I have larned through bitter experience that if I can't see around the curve, over the hill or through the intrection, I will ride it at a much lower speed that will allow sufficient error margin. I ride a nice sweeping curve in excess of 90 deg going to work in the day light joyously scraping the peg, my boot sole on the throttle, fast in and faster out as I can see all the way around the curve before I get in the curve and match speed to conditions. On the way home late after dark, I can't see as well or as far as the HID won't reach around the curve so, I'm down a lot on the speed and with neutral throttle if not off the throttle and fingers and toes lightly touching the brakes. The point? Ride to the conditions, ride to the conditions.

Karl

[OneShot]

The news report listed on the Dragon's web link says 3 have died so far in '07.
The "real" local news in Knoxville lists the deaths at 17 this year.
Who is telling the truth here? Does anyone know how many have died this year?
All year the local news has been reporting one death after another. I'm skeptical of what I read on the Dragon's web link because let's face it, negativity impacts their business.

The truth must be told.

[ironbuttwannabe]

I don't know the toll. I went through on Sunday and there must have been a wreck because a man was laying on the pavement with people around him waiting on an ambulance. Sad thing was I passed an ambulance about a half hour later. So he had to wait a long time for help.

[jayjacobson]

The news report listed on the Dragon's web link says 3 have died so far in '07. The "real" local news in Knoxville lists the deaths at 17 this year. Who is telling the truth here? Does anyone know how many have died this year?

All year the local news has been reporting one death after another....The truth must be told.
I bet if the Dragon was in Iraq we would get an accurate death toll! "Were approaching 1,000 deaths!".....

[rlv]

I'm prety sure that the 17 is correct.
A buddy and I were having dinner, the friday evening of the weekend that this all happened, talking about me getting hit by a red honda sports car up there about a month ago. He stated that night that there had already been 13 or 14 killed up there this year so far. I did go back a couple of times after getting hit but the cars have kinda taken over with their clubs and all. Some of them really scream. I met some cars on the curves again really out of control and I have since lost my nerve and stopped going during daylight hours. It is still a great ride, just do it before daylight. Add this 3 and your close.
Ride safe.

[kk610lt]

I'm prety sure that the 17 is correct.
A buddy and I were having dinner, the friday evening of the weekend that this all happened, talking about me getting hit by a red honda sports car up there about a month ago. He stated that night that there had already been 13 or 14 killed up there this year so far. I did go back a couple of times after getting hit but the cars have kinda taken over with their clubs and all. Some of them really scream. I met some cars on the curves again really out of control and I have since lost my nerve and stopped going during daylight hours. It is still a great ride, just do it before daylight. Add this 3 and your close.
Ride safe.
I believe that 2 and 3 is a monthly total. Seventeen is for the year so far. Just returned from Deal's Gap. A weekday early morning pass was no problem.

[jayjacobson]

[B]Number 2 and 3 fatality on the Dragon.

Probably a stupid question, BUT, I want to stay true to form. SO, if you don't want to do anything stupid on the Dragon, like plow head on into another vehicle, and otherwise have no death wish, can you just ride at a nice safe pace and enjoy a very scenic area?

[pkpr1998]

I think that the death toll on the Dragon this year has been 3!

They all died within 24 hours of each other and about 6 miles apart!

Check with killboy if you don't believe!

[rlv]

[B]Number 2 and 3 fatality on the Dragon.

Probably a stupid question, BUT, I want to stay true to form. SO, if you don't want to do anything stupid on the Dragon, like plow head on into another vehicle, and otherwise have no death wish, can you just ride at a nice safe pace and enjoy a very scenic area?

Not a stupid question, but the answer is (I really doubt it unless you go before dawn). You can ride your own ride at that time of morning, it is very nice and different traveling over it in the fog. The only things that you have to worry about running into is the deer and the bear.

If you get on the dragon during the heat of the day you are liable to get run over in a hurry or cause a wreck by going slow. I hate to say it but that is the name of the game, running fast. If you can be there while the police are there you could probably ride your own ride.

[DaveRT]

Not a stupid question, but the answer is (I really doubt it unless you go before dawn). You can ride your own ride at that time of morning, it is very nice and different traveling over it in the fog. The only things that you have to worry about running into is the deer and the bear.

If you get on the dragon during the heat of the day you are liable to get run over in a hurry or cause a wreck by going slow. I hate to say it but that is the name of the game, running fast. If you can be there while the police are there you could probably ride your own ride.

Cause a wreck by going slow?? I pulled over a little and waved a faster rider by when it was safe. I did not cause a wreck or even see one. I rode it 7 times in 3 days ( OK it was mid-week ) with runs in the morning, around noon, and late in the day. Lots of bikes, I was not alone. At no time did we feel unsafe ( I ride 2-up ) on the dragon or other area bike roads. Just do it. :bmw:

[KMC1]

I think that the death toll on the Dragon this year has been 3!

They all died within 24 hours of each other and about 6 miles apart!

Check with killboy if you don't believe!

The treacherous curves of the Dragon claimed two more lives Friday as a pair of people from Florida were killed in a wreck that closed the road for more than three hours.

It was the second fatal accident on the road in two days.

A man and a woman were riding on a three-wheeled Honda motorcycle, known as a trike, when they apparently took a curve of northbound Calderwood Highway (U.S. 129, commonly known as the Dragon) too quickly and lost control, said Tennessee Highway Patrol Trooper Ernest Marion.

The pair then hit a Toyota Land Cruiser with a large boat on a trailer driven by John Stanley Hitch, 53, Maryville, that was coming up the hill in the southbound lane. The accident took place between Mile Markers 2 and 3 on Calderwood Highway.

The impact was so severe that it nearly knocked the 5,000-pound boat completely off the trailer. The couple on the trike were trapped under the boat and trailer after the accident.

The name of the pair was not released Friday pending notification of their family members.

Another motorcycle rider, Bret Akers, 45, Lincolnton, N.C., wrecked when he hit the overturned trike. He was injured, but refused treatment, Marion said.

Speed was a factor in the accident, he said.

Agee Lequire, Philadelphia, was driving a truck with a horse trailer just seconds behind the trike on northbound Calderwood Highway. The accident had happened moments before when he pulled up and Hitch flagged him down.

Lequire said he tried to assist the two riders of the Honda trike, but when he got to them under the trailer and boat, it was too late.

“(The wreck) was too much,” he said. “There’s just nothing you can do to help someone in that kind of condition.”

Cell phone coverage in the area is spotty at best, and Lequire could not get a signal to call 911. Of the other motorists at the scene of the accident, someone was finally to get through and contacted emergency personnel at 5:59 p.m.

Once on the scene, it took emergency personnel and tow truck workers more than an hour to move the boat and other debris enough to remove the bodies of the victims from the scene.

Along with THP, Blount County Sheriff’s Office, Blount County Volunteer Rescue Squad, Rural/Metro Ambulance Service and an ambulance from Graham County, N.C., responded to the accident.

Thursday victim ID’d

Friday’s accident followed by one day the fatal accident that involved a motorcycle rider from Michigan losing control of his bike on a curve on the Dragon and sliding to his death over an 80-foot cliff.

The man killed in the motorcycle wreck at 6:52 p.m. Thursday on Calderwood Highway was identified by authorities Friday as Kevin James Hoyt, 40, Highland, Mich.

According to the Tennessee Highway Patrol accident report, Hoyt was southbound on the highway when he lost control in a curve and slid down an embankment.

He “low sided” his bike by applying too much braking pressure on the front wheel while taking the curve, according to Trooper Marion, who also responded to that wreck.

Hoyt then slid with the bike over the edge of the highway, down an 80-foot cliff and landed on a small ledge in a heavily wooded area off the side of the road.

His black 2005 Yamaha motorcycle continued on for another 15 feet before coming to rest 95 feet below the road.

The accident happened about seven miles from the North Carolina line. The 11-mile-long Dragon runs from Tab Cat Creek to Deal’s Gap in North Carolina.

Friday’s accident brings the number of traffic fatalities in Blount County for 2007 to 17. By this time in 2006 Blount County had only had nine traffic fatalities.

http://www.smokymountainriders.com/viewtopic.php?p=3627

[KMC1]

I think that the death toll on the Dragon this year has been 3!

They all died within 24 hours of each other and about 6 miles apart!

Check with killboy if you don't believe!


Three killed on Dragon in two day (update from articles below), July 14, 2007
From Staff and Wire Reports

Three people have died in two days in motorcycle accidents on a dangerous stretch of highway called the Dragon that twists through the Smoky Mountains.

A couple from Ocala, Fla., were killed Friday when the driver apparently took a curve on U.S. 129 too quickly and lost control, Tennessee Highway Patrol Trooper Ernest Marion said. They were identified Saturday as Warren, 72, and Carol Woodruff. Carol Woodruff’s age was not available.

The pair were riding on a Honda trike motorcycle, which hit a car hauling a large boat on a trailer. The accident knocked the 5,000-pound boat off the trailer, and the couple became trapped under it, authorities said. The road was closed for more than three hours as authorities removed the wreckage.

A Michigan man died Thursday on the same road after he lost control of his motorcycle and slid off an 80-foot cliff in the Smoky Mountain foothills.
Kevin James Hoyt, 40, of Highland, Mich., braked too hard while taking a curve, and his bike slid off the highway and over the cliff into some woods, Marion said.

The trooper said speed was not a factor in the accident, and Hoyt was wearing a helmet.

Two die on Dragon, July 14, 2007
By Mark Boxley of The Daily Times Staff

The treacherous curves of the Dragon claimed two more lives Friday as a pair of people from Florida were killed in a wreck that closed the road for more than three hours.

It was the second fatal accident on the road in two days.

A man and a woman were riding on a three-wheeled Honda motorcycle, known as a trike, when they apparently took a curve of northbound Calderwood Highway (U.S. 129, commonly known as the Dragon) too quickly and lost control, said Tennessee Highway Patrol Trooper Ernest Marion.

The pair then hit a Toyota Land Cruiser with a large boat on a trailer driven by John Stanley Hitch, 53, Maryville, that was coming up the hill in the southbound lane. The accident took place between Mile Markers 2 and 3 on Calder-
wood Highway.

The impact was so severe that it nearly knocked the 5,000-pound boat completely off the trailer. The couple on the trike were trapped under the boat and trailer after the accident.

The name of the pair was not released Friday pending notification of their family members.

Another motorcycle rider, Bret Akers, 45, Lincolnton, N.C., wrecked when he hit the overturned trike. He was injured, but refused treatment, Marion said.

Speed was a factor in the accident, he said.

Agee Lequire, Philadelphia, was driving a truck with a horse trailer just seconds behind the trike on northbound Calderwood Highway. The accident had happened moments before when he pulled up and Hitch flagged him down.

Lequire said he tried to assist the two riders of the Honda trike, but when he got to them under the trailer and boat, it was too late.
“(The wreck) was too much,” he said. “There’s just nothing you can do to help someone in that kind of condition.”

Cell phone coverage in the area is spotty at best, and Lequire could not get a signal to call 911. Of the other motorists at the scene of the accident, someone was finally to get through and contacted emergency personnel at 5:59 p.m.

Once on the scene, it took emergency personnel and tow truck workers more than an hour to move the boat and other debris enough to remove the bodies of the victims from the scene.

Along with THP, Blount County Sheriff’s Office, Blount County Volunteer Rescue Squad, Rural/Metro Ambulance Service and an ambulance from Graham County, N.C., responded to the accident.

Thursday victim ID’d

Friday’s accident followed by one day the fatal accident that involved a motorcycle rider from Michigan losing control of his bike on a curve on the Dragon and sliding to his death over an 80-foot cliff.

The man killed in the motorcycle wreck at 6:52 p.m. Thursday on Calderwood Highway was identified by authorities Friday as Kevin James Hoyt, 40, Highland, Mich.

According to the Tennessee Highway Patrol accident report, Hoyt was southbound on the highway when he lost control in a curve and slid down an embankment.

He “low sided” his bike by applying too much braking pressure on the front wheel while taking the curve, according to Trooper Marion, who also responded to that wreck.

Hoyt then slid with the bike over the edge of the highway, down an 80-foot cliff and landed on a small ledge in a heavily wooded area off the side of the road.

His black 2005 Yamaha motorcycle continued on for another 15 feet before coming to rest 95 feet below the road.

The accident happened about seven miles from the North Carolina line. The 11-mile-long Dragon runs from Tab Cat Creek to Deal’s Gap in North Carolina.

Friday’s accident brings the number of traffic fatalities in Blount County for 2007 to 17. By this time in 2006 Blount County had only had nine traffic fatalities.

Dragon claims life: Man falls over 80-foot cliff to death, July 13, 2007
By Mark Boxleyof The Daily Times Staff

A Michigan man fell to his death Thursday evening after losing control of his motorcycle on the Dragon and sliding off an 80-foot cliff.
The identity of the driver was not released, pending notification of his family.

The call was received after the accident by emergency personnel at 6:52 p.m. The incident happened near Mile Marker 7 on Calderwood Highway (U.S. 129, also commonly known as the Dragon).

According to Tennessee Highway Patrol Trooper Ernest Marion, it appears that the motorcycle driver “lowsided” his bike by applying too much braking pressure on the front wheel while taking a curve — which caused the slide. The man then slid with the bike over the edge of the highway, down an 80-foot cliff and landed on a small ledge in a heavily wooded area off the side of road. His black 2005 Yamaha motorcycle continued on for another 15 feet, coming to rest 95 feet below the road.

Larry Brown, a Fort Wayne, Ind., motorcycle rider in Tennessee on vacation, was one of the first people on the scene. He was alerted to the wreck by a pair of riders who were rushing down the highway looking for someone to call 911. Cell phone coverage in the area is sporadic, so Brown told them to try a store farther up the road. In the meantime, because he knew CPR he attended to the driver while emergency personnel were on their way to the accident.

When he got to the injured driver he was still breathing and had a pulse, Brown said. Emergency personnel were apparently not able to resuscitate the driver, and the man ultimately did not survive the crash. As a fellow motorcycle rider, Brown said seeing the severely injured driver and the accident scene left him “very uneasy.”

Speed was not a factor in the accident, Marion said. “Not at all.”

According to Brown, the motorcyclist was wearing a helmet at the time of the wreck.

No other information on the circumstances surrounding the fatal accident was available Thursday.

Along with THP, Blount County Sheriff’s Office, Blount Special Operations Response Team (BSORT), Blount County Fire Department, Blount
County Volunteer Rescue Squad and Rural/Metro Ambulance Service responded to the accident.
This is the 15th traffic fatality in Blount County this year.

Father, son crash on Dragon, May 7, 2007
By Jessica Stith
of The Daily Times Staff

Father and son motorcyclists who were riding the curves of the Dragon both wrecked — throwing the father down a 150 feet embankment on Sunday afternoon.

Timothy Verostick, 46, of Johnstown, Pa., was taken via Lifestar helicopter to University of Tennessee Medical Center where he was in stable condition. His son, Corey R. Verostick, 23, Johnstown, Pa., was taken by Rural/Metro Ambulance Service to UT Medical Center where he was treated in the emergency room and released.

According to Tennessee Highway Patrol Trooper Phil Little, the accidents occurred at about 1 p.m. while the father and son were traveling southbound on U.S. 129 between mile markers seven and eight.

Corey Verostick reported that he hit his breaks and his rear wheel began to fish tail, causing him to lay his 2005 Suzuki motorcycle down, Little said.

The father, Timothy Verostick, then lost control of his 2003 Suzuki motorcycle when trying to avoid hitting his son. This caused his motorcycle to run off the side of the road, Little said.

The father's motorcycle went down the embankment and landed at about 10 to 12 feet down. Timothy Verostick flew off of his motorcycle and continued falling approximately 150 feet down the embankment.

Blount Special Operations Response Team (BSORT), Blount County Fire Department, Blount County Volunteer Rescue Squad, Blount County Sheriff's deputies and Rural/Metro Ambulance Service all responded to assist in bringing the injured motorcyclist up the embankment.

"It was really steep," Little said of the embankment.

According to Blount County Fire Department authorities, a "z-system" (rope and pulleys used to pull loads) was used to bring Timothy Verostick up the embankment.

Little said a landing zone was set up near the scene of the accident. Rural/Metro took Timothy Verostick to the zone and Lifestar flew him to UT Medical center.

Little said both father and son were wearing helmets.

http://www.tailofthedragon.com/news_articles2007.html

[KMC1]

I think that the death toll on the Dragon this year has been 3!

They all died within 24 hours of each other and about 6 miles apart!

Check with killboy if you don't believe!

So yeah, in short, I don't believe anything that morally repugnant, socially irresponsible, piece of dung Darryl, has to say. In fact, if he had an ounce of decency and a moral center, he would donate every penny he and his cronies have made off "The Dragon" back to Blount County and Robbinsville, and then move to Bangledadesh or some other part of the World where he can't ruin OUR pass time any further. Opportunistic scumbag that he is.

[meese]

According to Tennessee Highway Patrol Trooper Ernest Marion, it appears that the motorcycle driver “lowsided” his bike by applying too much braking pressure on the front wheel while taking a curve — which caused the slide.

<snip>

Speed was not a factor in the accident, Marion said. “Not at all.”OK, he's braking hard enough in the corner to slide the front wheel and low side, but "speed was not a factor"? I disagree. He may have even been below the posted speed limit, but he obviously was riding too fast for conditions, or at least for his own skill level.

Obviously, it sucks that he paid the price that he did, and that his family, friends, and those who came upon the scene will have to live with this tragedy but from this brief description, I can't see how the conclusion can be made that speed wan't a factor.

Note that the above observations merely stem from my habit of analyzing such reports to see if there is a major contributing factor. This is done to help remind me to always ride within my own skill level and the current conditions, more than trying to chastise another rider for their mistakes.

[meese]

So yeah, in short, I don't believe anything that morally repugnant, socially irresponsible, piece of dung Darryl, has to say. In fact, if he had an ounce of decency and a moral center, he would donate every penny he and his cronies have made off "The Dragon" back to Blount County and Robbinsville, and then move to Bangledadesh or some other part of the World where he can't ruin OUR pass time any further. Opportunistic scumbag that he is.Jeez Kevin, why don't you just call him a Liberal and save yourself all that extra typing? That way, he and his friends could be categorically dismissed as the second-class lowlifes that you obviously think they are.

US 129 is a public road. Anyone taking that road has the personal responsibility to do so at a pace that they can handle, and to take due care for other road users (and sometimes, watch out for other road users who may not be taking due care). Posting a few pics on a website does not force folks to ride faster, nor does it alleviate an individual rider's responsibility. You may disagree with their operation, but that doesn't automatically make them second-class citizens ripe for deportation.

How much money has Blount County and Robbinsville made from increased tourism? I bet it's a lot more than has been made from a website. And isn't it obvious from your statements above that you only really care about this issue because it might impact YOUR ability to ride however you want to? After all, almost any argument can be broken down to "how does it affect me?"

...where he can't ruin OUR pass time any further.I rest my case.

And if you wanna talk opportunistic scumbags, then you need to look a bit higher up the food chain. But wait, there's an election coming soon, so we'll have plenty of time for those debates.

[pkpr1998]

Ok, someone said that there were 17 deaths on the dragon, NOT Blount County!

I SAID THREE HAVE LOST THERE LIVES ON THE DRAGON!

There may have been 17 deaths in Blount Cty, but not on the Dragon.

[grifscoots]

So yeah, in short, I don't believe anything that morally repugnant, socially irresponsible, piece of dung Darryl, has to say. In fact, if he had an ounce of decency and a moral center, he would donate every penny he and his cronies have made off "The Dragon" back to Blount County and Robbinsville, and then move to Bangledadesh or some other part of the World where he can't ruin OUR pass time any further. Opportunistic scumbag that he is.I've had my pic taken many times on the Dragon and never saw Darryl. I think it was because of this weird habit I have of looking thru corners.

[kola1]

Very good question Jayjacobson, I would say to you that the dragon is not really known for the views. There are many other roads in the area that offer much more for the views and have less traffic on them. Most people ride the Dragon as a test to their skill level. Not for the view. Check the web for Dell's Gap to get a better understanding of what most people feel the Dragon is all about.
The Dragon is a public road that you can ride and not have a problem if you use some care. Motorcycles are not the only thing on the Dragon. There will be cars, trucks and bears. I rode in Oct. I think hunting season had just started at that time. I was not out to beat the Dragon I just wanted to ride it. I think if more people wanted to just ride the Dragon and not try to BEAT the Dragon there would be much less problems.
The local people that I met in the area were very nice and the cost of my time spent there was very fair. If I were to crash on the Dragon please don't blame the person that gave me a room to sleep in at a fair price, Please don't blame the person that gave me diner at a fair price and don't blame the people that take photos to sell. Blame me and me alone for not using the care that I know I should have. Kola1

[jayjacobson]

Cause a wreck by going slow??....
Absolutely! In So Kal, people start nutting up and rear end you and/or passing unsafely over the double yellows.

[DaveRT]

Absolutely! In So Kal, people start nutting up and rear end you and/or passing unsafely over the double yellows.

Blame the rider doing the speed limit or his/her limit. People call it slow. So the riders crashing into your tail and illegally passing on the double yellow assume no responsibility for their actions. It's all the other guys fault. And I thought Massachusetts had all the Liberals. :eek:

[meese]

Blame the rider doing the speed limit or his/her limit. People call it slow. So the riders crashing into your tail and illegally passing on the double yellow assume no responsibility for their actions. It's all the other guys fault. :eek:It's always the other guy's fault. It's the American way, after all. Here in CA they will ticket someone going too slow for conditions and obstructing traffic. In OR, it's merely a way of life. All depends on what you consider normal, I guess.

And I thought Massachusetts had all the Liberals.
[Inigo Montoya]You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.[/Inigo Montoya]

[jayjacobson]

....If I were to crash on the Dragon please don't blame the person that gave me a room to sleep in at a fair price, Please don't blame the person that gave me diner at a fair price and don't blame the people that take photos to sell. Blame me and me alone for not using the care that I know I should have.
WTF?! Could I have a translation of this please? This isn't the "new" American way!
Blame the rider doing the speed limit or his/her limit. People call it slow. So the riders crashing into your tail and illegally passing on the double yellow assume no responsibility for their actions. It's all the other guys fault. And I thought Massachusetts had all the Liberals. :eek:
It's always the other guy's fault. It's the American way, after all. Here in CA they will ticket someone going too slow for conditions and obstructing traffic. In OR, it's merely a way of life. All depends on what you consider normal, I guess.
Right! Now you guys got it!

Plenty of socialists must have migrated to Kalifornia.

[KMC1]

You guys are missing the whole point. (s)
Darryl is exploiting a public road (and it's starting to become the whole area) for his and his alone, enrichment. He is taking a public resource and 1) ruining it, and 2) capitalizing on the good naturedness of the people in the South.
It's because of assholes like him that we end up with laws that have to tell us what time of day we're allowed to wipe and how much toilette paper we can use.
I completely disagree with the statements about how it's not about the over-exploitation of the area. While I agree with the point that it's up to the rider (s) to control their vehicle and protect they're (and OUR) well-being, we also must acknowledge The Human Condition, in that the more people who are utilizing (or abusing as the case may be) any resource, the more people who will be of less than average common sense and courtesy.
This is the primary problem with increasing population, the more people you have in a given area, the less quality of life you have.
So in short, while yes, we're all responsible for our own actions (or at least we SHOULD BE - Thank you Liberals.... :rolleyes: ) the only way to maintain control of any situation is with more policing, more laws, more punishment and less fun, quality of life and enjoyment.
You wouldn't ever see an area like this in New England, the SS.. I mean Police, would shut it down right quick.
This is the kind of change Darryl and his cronies are bringing to the area, all for his own enrichment.

[meese]

Again, how is this directly Darryl's fault? He isn't forcing the riders to come there. He isn't twisting the throttle for them. He's just taking pictures. Sure, his website has spread the word and helped make the Dragon a destination, but again, he's just passively observing and documenting what's been going on for years.

Now if he was hosting speed trials, or giving prizes for the quickest laps, that would be different. But he's not.

Do you also condemn the Deal's Gap Store for profiting from this little enterprise? Or that cheesy "motel" right next door? After all, they sell shirts and make money from all the visitors, thus enabling the abuses and tragedies we keep reading about, right?

And it seems that the local LEOs are responding to the increased problems with increased enforcement, which is to be expected. Nothing unusual there.

Once again, Kevin, I think the logic of the situation is being overridden by your own deep-seated beliefs and prejudices. You claim to stand for freedom and personal responsibility, but in the end, it all boils down to whether someone else's actions will impinge on your rights, or your fun. If it could possibly effect you in a negative manner, then it's all bad and should be stopped, regardless of anyone else's rights or wishes.

Sorry, but I'm still not buying it.

[kola1]

With all that is being said here I guess the Dragon will soon be a part of what used to be. Our lack of common sense and common courtesy will soon bring an end to the Dragon as we know it. The last time I was there I still enjoyed myself. The local people were great and the cost $$ was a good value to me. I didn't buy any photos of myself on the Dragon ( I care more about how I ride than how I look while I ride ) I have never tried to BEAT the Dragon I only want a ride on it. I enjoyed a few other roads in the area much more that the Dragon. Maybe there is just to much traffic for the 11 miles of road. I would think that we could share the 11 miles of road and not have the problems but we can'nt For now I will look for a road to replace the Dragon and when I do I will not be real fast to share the location with the world. I guess you can add If you build it they will come AND RUIN IT. Kola1

[RVB1019]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.[/Inigo Montoya]

http://www.espejosdelarueda.org/espejos/images/princesaprometida/montoya%202.JPG

Any debate that includes a line from the [i]Princess Bride is a good one!
[/url]
[url="http://ironic1.com/hellomynameisinigo.jpg"]http://ironic1.com/hellomynameisinigo.jpg (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/protectedimage.php?image=EamonnMcCusker/PrincessBride04.jpg)


Blame the riders not riding their ride right, not Killboy-Deal's Gap T-Shirt Vendors- Deal's Gap Deli-Deal's Gap Toothpaste Sellers.:p

[heywood]

You guys are missing the whole point. (s)
Darryl is exploiting a public road (and it's starting to become the whole area) for his and his alone, enrichment. He is taking a public resource and 1) ruining it, and 2) capitalizing on the good naturedness of the people in the South.
It's because of assholes like him that we end up with laws that have to tell us what time of day we're allowed to wipe and how much toilette paper we can use.
I completely disagree with the statements about how it's not about the over-exploitation of the area. While I agree with the point that it's up to the rider (s) to control their vehicle and protect they're (and OUR) well-being, we also must acknowledge The Human Condition, in that the more people who are utilizing (or abusing as the case may be) any resource, the more people who will be of less than average common sense and courtesy.
This is the primary problem with increasing population, the more people you have in a given area, the less quality of life you have.
So in short, while yes, we're all responsible for our own actions (or at least we SHOULD BE - Thank you Liberals.... :rolleyes: ) the only way to maintain control of any situation is with more policing, more laws, more punishment and less fun, quality of life and enjoyment.
You wouldn't ever see an area like this in New England, the SS.. I mean Police, would shut it down right quick.
This is the kind of change Darryl and his cronies are bringing to the area, all for his own enrichment.

You have to be a complete retard to even say this. Darryl isn't the cause of the problem. Whether or not Darryl was there, the same problem would exist.

[KMC1]

Again, how is this directly Darryl's fault? He isn't forcing the riders to come there. He isn't twisting the throttle for them. He's just taking pictures. Sure, his website has spread the word and helped make the Dragon a destination,
Ken, Didn't you just answer your own question right here??


Now if he was hosting speed trials, or giving prizes for the quickest laps, that would be different. But he's not.

He gives out free crash pictures to make fun of a very serious issue. He glorifies the speed aspect and promotes his own little clique, who are pretensious as hell and act as though they own the road. They do the little lead the trucks deal, they run pace laps, they try to work with the Police to find out when there will be enforcement, they go to the DOT and try to get things like pull out areas made. Etc.
How can you sit there and pretend they aren't abusing a public resource for their own proffitt???? And again, HOW is that OK?


Do you also condemn the Deal's Gap Store for profiting from this little enterprise? Or that cheesy "motel" right next door? After all, they sell shirts and make money from all the visitors, thus enabling the abuses and tragedies we keep reading about, right?
ABSOLUTELY. They are as much a part of the problem as Darryl, except that in their case, they actually have a business right on the road. Darryl promotes the road WAY more than they do, and he also actively abuses it. That makes him in my opinion, much more culpable, but they are all part of the same disease.


And it seems that the local LEOs are responding to the increased problems with increased enforcement, which is to be expected. Nothing unusual there.
Ken, that really is my whole point isn't it??


You claim to stand for freedom and personal responsibility, but in the end, it all boils down to whether someone else's actions will impinge on your rights, or your fun.

Ken, in a nutshell, can you please tell me why you think those two things are NOT mutually exclusive???
How can you sit there and defend someone's right (WHAT???) to initiate an action that impinges anothers rights? In this case, I'm not even sure what rights you are actually refering to, I'm talking about ruining an area by exploiting a public resource for personal gain, and somehow you've turned this into a Constitutional debate? I honestly think you're so busy trying to take pot shots against me as a person, you're not thinking clearly about the actual issues being discussed.

[KMC1]

You have to be a complete retard to even say this. Darryl isn't the cause of the problem. Whether or not Darryl was there, the same problem would exist.

Wow. Welcome to the board, Mr. Heywood. Good to see you're not able to converse above the level of a 5 year old. I'd write more, but obviously you're just not worth my time.

[meese]

Any debate that includes a line from the Princess Bride is a good one!I wondered who'd get the reference. The loal cheap theater here just played The Princess Bride and a bunch of my friends went. Unfortunately, I had to work (gotta pay for fuel & tires). But as in most cases, the book is much better.

Blame the riders not riding their ride right, not Killboy-Deal's Gap T-Shirt Vendors- Deal's Gap Deli-Deal's Gap Toothpaste Sellers.:pExactly. At least it seems that some folks here get that simple fact.

Hmm, maybe it's simply an immigration parallel. "This place was great, until all those dang outsiders showed up and ruined it." Conveniently forgetting that we were all outsiders once.

Meese
(Who can trace his lineage at least back to the Mayflower).

[meese]

Repeat after me, Kevin. Darryl, Keith, or David aren't riding the bikes. Period. That in itself pretty much negates your arguments, and puts us squarely back into the personal responsibility arena. Yes they're glorifying the road, and yes, they're making a living out of it, but they're not alone in either of those actions.

After all, we're doing a lot of advertising for CCR. Great area, great resort, great riding, etc. Does that mean that CCR is abusing the public resources of the area where it's held? No? After all, we're doing it for charity, so it must be OK.

What if CCR was a sport bike event, and a few riders wanted to race, and someone crashed and got hurt or killed? What if they crashed into a school bus full of kids? Would that make the event organizers responsible for the actions of a few individuals? After all, they wouldn't have even been there if it wasn't for the advertised event. Maybe it would be the bus driver's fault for not getting out of the way, or the parent's fault for letting their kids get on the ill-fated bus.

Yes, there is increased LEO presence on the Dragon, due to the increased use of the road, and a consequent increase in crashes. That's perfectly normal. But your point seems to be "Shh, don't tell anyone and we can keep it all to ourselves." As you mentioned, it is a public road, available to all.

I've had more than my share of LEO encounters over the years, and with very few exceptions have found them to be courteous, forthright, and really just regular guys out there doing a tough job for little pay and even less appreciation. No, I'm never happy signing on the bottom line, but like most folks I accept responsibility for my actions and my choices, and I deal with the consequences. I sure don't blame the LEO for pulling me over, even for an occasional cheap-shot ticket. After all, I've never been written up for doing the speed limit.

As for personal pot shots, I pretty much learned to take your opinions with a large grain of salt when you failed to differentiate between North & South Korea back on the last LT board. That in itself ended any rational discussion on that topic, which IIRC was a simple ride report which you turned into a political quagmire by your simple refusal to apply any sort of logic or reason to your replies.

Let's just agree that you and I seem to disagree on a lot of topics, and leave it at that, shall we?

[RVB1019]

If anything, they are actually HELPING the community by promoting the Dragon. The local community benefits from all of us visiting the area, eating in the restraunts, sleeping in the inns. Because of people like Keith and Darryl, people in the area can support their families with jobs and careers that do not involve Walmart or McDonalds.

[KMC1]

Repeat after me, Kevin. Darryl, Keith, or David aren't riding the bikes. Period. That in itself pretty much negates your arguments, and puts us squarely back into the personal responsibility arena.

Item 1) Darryl, in fact, has HIS crash pictures posted on Killboy.com: http://killboy.com/archive-05-05-04.html
So you either are speaking about something which you know nothing about, yet presenting it as fact, (typical Left tactic) or this is a blatant lie, something which I personally dislike. If you want to debate with me, fine. I actually enjoy keeping an open mind, as I realize I can learn a great many things from a great many people. Sometimes I will even acknowledge I am wrong and learn I made a mistake from debating.
Not this time, but it has happened.
But I really wish we could work together to make valid points, not just spending time attacking each other while THE ISSUES are ignored.


Yes they're glorifying the road, and yes, they're making a living out of it, but they're not alone in either of those actions.

Ken you are talking in circles. You constantly throw up red herrings to try to attack me as a person, while in the same breath acknowledging my points. The whole point I'm trying to make, you just reiterated here. Let me make this as clear as I can.
I believe it is wrong for individuals to abuse public resources for their own betterment. I also believe it is wrong for individuals to over-exploit the area thus ruining it for everyone, in order to make a fast buck.

Honestly, I don't think I can say it anymore clearly than that.

After all, we're doing a lot of advertising for CCR. Great area, great resort, great riding, etc. Does that mean that CCR is abusing the public resources of the area where it's held? No? After all, we're doing it for charity, so it must be OK.
If it was being done for individual enrichment, then yes, it would be wrong. If it was being done year round, and decreasing the quality of life for those who live and vacation there (the MAJORITY - you may want to look that one up!) then yes, it would be wrong.
And by the way, the fact that this is being done for CHARITY, DOES change things considerably. Now it goes from lining a couple guys pockets, to HELPING a great many. Are you NOT ABLE to see the difference??? I would have to find that kind of ironic for a Socialist!


What if CCR was a sport bike event, and a few riders wanted to race, and someone crashed and got hurt or killed? What if they crashed into a school bus full of kids? Would that make the event organizers responsible for the actions of a few individuals?
Um... do I really have to answer this one??? What if you have a house party and let someone drive drunk and they are killed? YES you are responsible. In fact I believe as part of the application process to host an event like this, there needs to be insurance. If there is NOT insurance, I would suggest speaking with an attorney, because although I'm not an expert, I do believe there is sufficient grounds for a liable case in your example.

Yes, there is increased LEO presence on the Dragon, due to the increased use of the road, and a consequent increase in crashes. That's perfectly normal. What do you consider "normal"? Exploitation of an area for an individuals profit results in 1) more injury 2) more costs incurred by the area affected for unisured health care cost, ambulance costs, wreckage removal costs, increased LEO costs.....3) less safety for THE PUBLIC who actually need to use this road for basic transportation 4) lower quality of life for those in the affected areas.
And this is OK in your opinion??

As for personal pot shots, I pretty much learned to take your opinions with a large grain of salt when you failed to differentiate between North & South Korea back on the last LT board. That in itself ended any rational discussion on that topic, which IIRC was a simple ride report which you turned into a political quagmire by your simple refusal to apply any sort of logic or reason to your replies.Let's just agree that you and I seem to disagree on a lot of topics, and leave it at that, shall we?

Actually you're misrepresenting my remarks from then, and regardless, I only use this as an example of you 1) attacking me as a person to dismiss me in my entirety instead of having to debate the issues I bring up. Which is again, a typical Left tactic. And 2) throwing up a red herring to deflect from the discussion of which you have clearly lost track of the meaning. I do find it ironic that you are dismissing me in my entirety, yet it was you just a couple days ago accusing me of doing same.
(From 7/26: Jeez Kevin, why don't you just call him a Liberal and save yourself all that extra typing? That way, he and his friends could be categorically dismissed as the second-class lowlifes that you obviously think they are.
LOL. Gees Ken.....

[KMC1]

If anything, they are actually HELPING the community by promoting the Dragon. The local community benefits from all of us visiting the area, eating in the restraunts, sleeping in the inns. Because of people like Keith and Darryl, people in the area can support their families with jobs and careers that do not involve Walmart or McDonalds.
I understand what you're saying here. However, you should talk to some of the locals next time you're there, NOT Inn owners or BBQ owners, but some of the regular Joes.
Also, stop into the sporting goods store and talk to some of the EMT's who hang out there, you'll find they don't want "our help" from my experience.

[meese]

If Darryl crashed his own bike, that's irrelevant. The point is that he's not forcing anyone else to ride like an idiot - he's not twisting their throttles for them. My apologies if that wasn't clear, but you seem to keep focusing on how this is all one person's fault, rather than believing each of us is responsible for our own actions. If I crash, should I blame BMW for making a bike that will do 2-3 times the posted speed limit?

Sorry Kevin, but I've given up debating your points when all you do is just keep typing the same things over and over. When I and several others have clearly presented the opposing opinion, and all you do is type the same response again and again, then we're pretty much done debating.

It's not that we don't understand your points, it's just that we disagree with them, and thus with your conclusions. That being said, you can still hold those opinions, but repeating things ad-nauseam doesn't give them any more weight.

Will you be at CCR? I'm sure this would be a much more interesting discussion face-to-face. I'll even buy the first round.

[KMC1]

If Darryl crashed his own bike, that's irrelevant. LOL!
I see. So when you state something that is factually (damn those pesky facts again!) WRONG, it's just not relevant. I see... Yes... I am the one who is completely unhinged.

The point is that he's not forcing anyone else to ride like an idiot - he's not twisting their throttles for them. My apologies if that wasn't clear, but you seem to keep focusing on how this is all one person's fault, rather than believing each of us is responsible for our own actions.
I understand what you are saying. I am saying it IS Darryl's fault for exploitation of the area for his profit. These are actually two different things being interchanged. They are not the same. Ken. They are NOT the same.


Sorry Kevin, but I've given up debating your points when all you do is just keep typing the same things over and over. They are NOT the same... LOL!

we're pretty much done debating. Sounds good. Can we still insult each other though? :D :histerica

you can still hold those opinions, but repeating things ad-nauseam doesn't give them any more weight. DID YOU JUST MAKE A FAT JOKE??? NOT cool! :rotf:

Will you be at CCR? I'm sure this would be a much more interesting discussion face-to-face. I'll even buy the first round.

Unfortunately, no. We'll be in Nova Scotia as we burned our two weeks this year in Italy and only have a week left. If you make it out this way though, the first round is on ME, and I'll even take ya to a really nice German restaurant we'll need to take the car to! :beer: Ticki Tocki, Ticki Tocki, Hoi, Hoi, Hoi!!! :p

[jayjacobson]

You guys are missing the whole point. Darryl is exploiting a public road (and it's starting to become the whole area) for his and his alone, enrichment. He is taking a public resource and 1) ruining it, and 2) capitalizing on the good naturedness of the people in the South. It's because of assholes like him that we end up with laws that have to tell us what time of day we're allowed to wipe and how much toilette paper we can use. I completely disagree with the statements about how it's not about the over-exploitation of the area....This is the kind of change Darryl and his cronies are bringing to the area, all for his own enrichment.
Most intersting arguement, KMC. Just of of curiosity, would it make an difference if the "pimps" were not entrepreneurs? Say they were a governmental agency like the department of tourism? I will agree that some of the pic's on the sites are encouraging/promoting wreckless driving/riding, however. While I do admire the rider's ability on that big Wing, my ass puckers thinking, one little error......
....Maybe it's simply an immigration parallel. "This place was great, until all those dang outsiders showed up and ruined it." Conveniently forgetting that we were all outsiders once.
Ken, you have completely missed any "immigration parallel!" It is MOST IMPORTANT to note that any immigration debate is over ILLEGAL "outsiders!" You're absolutely correct: my grandpa and grandma were outsiders. They just immigrated LEGALLY (not that anyone gives a F**K anymore).
Repeat after me, Kevin. Darryl, Keith, or David aren't riding the bikes. Period. That in itself pretty much negates your arguments, and puts us squarely back into the personal responsibility arena. Yes they're glorifying the road, and yes, they're making a living out of it, but they're not alone in either of those actions....Yes, there is increased LEO presence on the Dragon, due to the increased use of the road, and a consequent increase in crashes....you failed to differentiate between North & South Korea back on the last LT board....
Would it make any difference if the "pimps" did ride the Dragon? I would say that they are giving a pretty penny to the state in taxes, etc. I suppose that state could have denied them a business license and shut them down. NOT! I think everyone is in on the "pimping" of the Dragon.
Law enforcement response to all the stupidity in the area has been very weak. Real entrepreneurs would have turned it into a private toll road, charging people a hefty fee for passage! Now that's real pimping! I have long been an advocate of billing the person at fault in a T/C for the cost of the response. If they're DOA, what the hell, give 'em a pass. I'm a giver!
North/South Korea--it's all so confusing.
If anything, they are actually HELPING the community by promoting the Dragon. The local community benefits from all of us visiting the area, eating in the restraunts, sleeping in the inns. Because of people like Keith and Darryl, people in the area can support their families with jobs and careers that do not involve Walmart or McDonalds.
Aahhhh yes: the two most E-V-I-L corporations in Amerika!
Kind of like the government bad mouthing the EVIL tobacco manufactures, BUT, collecting BILLIONS in taxes off their EVIL product.
If Darryl crashed his own bike, that's irrelevant. The point is that he's not forcing anyone else to ride like an idiot - he's not twisting their throttles for them. My apologies if that wasn't clear, but you seem to keep focusing on how this is all one person's fault, rather than believing each of us is responsible for our own actions....

Being a Libertarian, I like poking fun at the commies/liberals/socialists as much as the next guy. In this case, I am going to give the Dragon pimps a pass and side with personal responsibility. I know this is not a popular viewpoint with the sheeple. After all, if one person, er sheep, jumps off a cliff....

[KMC1]

Most intersting arguement, KMC. Just of of curiosity, would it make an difference if the "pimps" were not entrepreneurs? Say they were a governmental agency like the department of tourism? I will agree that some of the pic's on the sites are encouraging/promoting wreckless driving/riding, however. While I do admire the rider's ability on that big Wing, my ass puckers thinking, one little error......
Instead of MY opinion, (which some may value more than others, eh, Ken? :p ) let's ask some vampi.. I mean attorneys, to chime in on this one.
What say you, all good and just protectors of Liberty and blind justice, our most honorable purveyors of Law?
If a State were to promote a public road as a race track, and take pictures of people riding/driving on it to sell to them, would there be ANY chance at all of the State being held liable in the event of a traffic related injury/fatality on said road?


Ken, you have completely missed any "immigration parallel!" It is MOST IMPORTANT to note that any immigration debate is over ILLEGAL "outsiders!" You're absolutely correct: my grandpa and grandma were outsiders. They just immigrated LEGALLY (not that anyone gives a F**K anymore). In a way these things go together though. Too many people in a given area, reduce the quality of life within said area. So in a way they sort of relate to each other. It wasn't my example though, just want to point that out! :D

Aahhhh yes: the two most E-V-I-L corporations in Amerika!
Kind of like the government bad mouthing the EVIL tobacco manufactures, BUT, collecting BILLIONS in taxes off their EVIL product. Gees Jay, don't you pay attention? In a Socialist paradise, Capitalism is the Devil! :rolleyes:

Being a Libertarian, I like poking fun at the commies/liberals/socialists as much as the next guy. In this case, I am going to give the Dragon pimps a pass and side with personal responsibility. I know this is not a popular viewpoint with the sheeple. After all, if one person, er sheep, jumps off a cliff....
OK. I don't agree though. But I figure if you're willing to admit to being a Libert-anything.. there's plenty of other stuff I can criticize! :histerica

[jayjacobson]

Instead of MY opinion, (which some may value more than others, eh, Ken? :p ) let's ask some vampi.. I mean attorneys, to chime in on this one.
What say you, all good and just protectors of Liberty and blind justice, our most honorable purveyors of Law? If a State were to promote a public road as a race track, and take pictures of people riding/driving on it to sell to them, would there be ANY chance at all of the State being held liable in the event of a traffic related injury/fatality on said road?....OK. I don't agree though. But I figure if you're willing to admit to being a Libert-anything.. there's plenty of other stuff I can criticize! :histerica
I think with the extremely WEAK law enforcement response in the area, the state is already promoting the area as a public race track! In Kalifornia, we would just declare it a "riot zone," then law enforcement wouldn't have to respond at all.

Careful: being a libert-anything, I WON'T tax that ass! Can we still turn the Dragon into a toll road, however?!

[killboy]

Glad we could be there for a nonsensical few to wag the finger at. After all, who else could you blame for your own mistakes if not for us?

Many thanks to the rest of ya for speaking up. In the future, anyone who wants to say something to, or about me, is free to speak to me directly via email or in person. I'm pretty easy to find.

In the mean time, we'll continue making a living doing something we love, around a community that we love...America is crazy like that. And yes, that includes continuing to try and reach newcomers to the area by promoting our website with interesting content mixed with a message of how to act.

[bowlesj]

We love ya Darryl, keep up the good work.

BTW, you know a fella named Gannon Roper?

[cfell]

Darryl.. ain't met ya yet.....

I have seen many of your pics and while some reveal the limits and reach of human abilities interacting with motorcycles and sometimes cars or other devices, they all give us a chance to connect........................ and sometimes learn.......... from and about others.

In our grand society experiment, may there always be those who seek their own personal best.... Glad you're one of us...

[killboy]

We love ya Darryl, keep up the good work.

BTW, you know a fella named Gannon Roper?

Thanks! That name doesn't sound familiar, although I'm notoriously bad with names, and I meet a lot of people out there. It's possible I know him...

[meese]

Darryl, pay no attention to Kevin. He tends to hold fast to some faulty piece of logic then twist everything to try and fit his own preconceived views. Most of the time he fails miserably, though not through lack of effort. Usually we just let it slide and ignore him, but every so often someone feels like poking back for a while. It's to bad, as he's obviously reasonably intelligent, but he just gets caught up in these false arguimenst and won't let go . . .

Oh well. As you've seen, most folks here don't feel the same way, and in fact are far more concerned about just going for a nice, long ride than anything else. And that's as it should be. :)

[UncleRock]

I totally agree, cameras should be outlawed, it is all Killboy's fault. Lets get rid of all newspapers and magazine that put out news of such places also.
Lets just outlaw motorcycles and we won't have this problem. We should all so get rid of all TV stations because they portray this violence that we see and put it as the lead in all news broad casts. We should also burn all books that have anything to do with any of the above subjects.
I think Darryl was still riding a pedal bike and a very little sub compact car when I did my 1st article on the dragon. On wednesday at times you could find a note on the gas pump telling you which fishing hole the owner was at, if you really needed gas :cool: .
He is providing a service, if some dickhead gets outside his limitations and gets himself dead.
SO WHAT, good hope they got out of the gene pool before they had a chance to mate and reproduce, polluting the rest of the world with their stupid mouth breathing spawn. :rolleyes:
Maybe killboy should just film the crashes now that would be cool.
He has preached not crossing the yellow line ever since I have known him. Has posted up signs on the dragon about it, "Thou Shalt not cross the Center Line" along with many other clean ups, (oil, gravel, etc) warnings and acts of safety :cool:
Good job Darryl, some people have no vision and spend their life enslaved working for someone else at something they can't stand. So in their bitterness they lash out at someone who has chosen their own path and made it work for them.
Rock

[DaveRT]

I didn't know you were on this forum. Thanks for all you do for the Dragon. I was there in June and had a great time. Will be back again. I have lots of video and pictures of all my trips over the last 25-30 years. Very few of me riding. I was thrilled with the pictures you took of us on our rides. Yes, I bought them all. I also look forward to your Highlights page on your web site every week. Keep up the good work. :bmw:

[KMC1]

Glad we could be there for a nonsensical few to wag the finger at. After all, who else could you blame for your own mistakes if not for us?
First of all Darryl, You're doing the same thing that Ken keeps doing, and that's trying to paint this as if I'm blaming you for the crashes. That's not the case and if you would take the time to come down off of your pedestal and actually READ WHAT I WROTE, you would have known that.
I AM blaming you for being an opportunist, over-exploiting the area around Robbinsville for your own benefit, thus, creating an unsafe riding experience through too much traffic, lowering the quality of life for those who actually live in the area, putting an undue burden onto the emergency and LEO depts. in the area which is costing those people of TN & NC who live there many millions of dollars in taxes to keep up with. It has also created situations where the local population has been in need of an ambulance, but they were both tied up on "The Dragon" picking up wipeouts. Not too mention the ambulances are barely able to continue running due to the high mileage they've incurred running up and down "The Dragon" all the time - although this thread started because of the DEATHS up there, there are many accidents everday which we hear nothing about.
It REALLY pisses me off that someone like you can come along and ruining a public area for their own benefit.


Many thanks to the rest of ya for speaking up. In the future, anyone who wants to say something to, or about me, is free to speak to me directly via email or in person. I'm pretty easy to find.
Yeah. Right.
You lie like a rug Darryl. You really are a scumbag, I have to tell you.
I've tried to post on Killboy, and you deleted my posts, and then blocked my blogger account. Why? Was I being rude? No. Did I say something racist? No. Did I threaten someone? No.
What did I do? I offered a different opinion. Just go onto the website and read the comments, they're all slaps on the back, feel-good posts.
And when you did block me, I DID send you an email. Did you have the guts to write back? NO. Did you have the guts to allow a difference of opinion on your website? NO.
So don't go around acting like you're all honest and true, and I'm sneaking around in the shadows - it's all about you, and how you can make money off the public road that you have over-exploited.


In the mean time, we'll continue making a living doing something we love, around a community that we love...America is crazy like that. And yes, that includes continuing to try and reach newcomers to the area by promoting our website with interesting content mixed with a message of how to act.
Again, it's all about you. Of course YOU love it there. You're making money with the total investment of a website and a camera. You've incurred no costs as mentioned above, in LEO, EMR, DOT costs for the wear and tear on the road, or liability insurance that pretty much any other company would have to have. Because that is all being paid for by US, the public, who are now not able to benefit from our money on that road. Ironic. You don't care that the people who actually live in Robbinsville are scared to drive on their only way up and over, and you don't care that what was a premier destination is now being over-used and is frankly, dangerous as hell to ride on.
You really make me sick Darryl, and I'll be honest with you, I really mean that. I might disagree with people about things and all that, but I still believe they are good people.
NOT in your case. You are a vile little man, with a huge ego, who is as narcissistic as they come.

[KMC1]

Darryl, pay no attention to Kevin. He tends to hold fast to some faulty piece of logic then twist everything to try and fit his own preconceived views. Most of the time he fails miserably, though not through lack of effort. Usually we just let it slide and ignore him, but every so often someone feels like poking back for a while. It's to bad, as he's obviously reasonably intelligent, but he just gets caught up in these false arguimenst and won't let go . . .

Oh well. As you've seen, most folks here don't feel the same way, and in fact are far more concerned about just going for a nice, long ride than anything else. And that's as it should be. :)

Ken, you make it sound like I'm always in some ridiculous argument about nothing and everyone agrees with YOU.
In fact, it's pretty obvious that is NOT the case, the majority of the time.
And again, why is it always a personal attack with you?

[jayjacobson]

....You lie like a rug Darryl. You really are a scumbag, I have to tell you....You really make me sick Darryl, and I'll be honest with you, I really mean that. I might disagree with people about things and all that, but I still believe they are good people.
NOT in your case. You are a vile little man, with a huge ego, who is as narcissistic as they come.
KMC, while I love all the differences of opinion on this site, I think your panties are over wadding! I can see that you don't care for Darryl as a person. You can confront him in this public forum w/o making your comments sound like a personal attack, however. Or, at least put a smiley face after them! :D

Also, let's keep in mind that, the businesses in the area that are profiting off Darryl's "EVIL" are charging/paying taxes. The state could always pull their business licenses, if they were undesirable. NOT! Like that would EVER happen! The state's making too much money!

[UncleRock]

Anyone monitour this site.
Scumbag liar, how personal does an attack have to get?
RockFirst of all Darryl, You're doing the same thing that Ken keeps doing, and that's trying to paint this as if I'm blaming you for the crashes. That's not the case and if you would take the time to come down off of your pedestal and actually READ WHAT I WROTE, you would have known that.
I AM blaming you for being an opportunist, over-exploiting the area around Robbinsville for your own benefit, thus, creating an unsafe riding experience through too much traffic, lowering the quality of life for those who actually live in the area, putting an undue burden onto the emergency and LEO depts. in the area which is costing those people of TN & NC who live there many millions of dollars in taxes to keep up with. It has also created situations where the local population has been in need of an ambulance, but they were both tied up on "The Dragon" picking up wipeouts. Not too mention the ambulances are barely able to continue running due to the high mileage they've incurred running up and down "The Dragon" all the time - although this thread started because of the DEATHS up there, there are many accidents everday which we hear nothing about.
It REALLY pisses me off that someone like you can come along and ruining a public area for their own benefit.


Yeah. Right.
You lie like a rug Darryl. You really are a scumbag, I have to tell you.
I've tried to post on Killboy, and you deleted my posts, and then blocked my blogger account. Why? Was I being rude? No. Did I say something racist? No. Did I threaten someone? No.
What did I do? I offered a different opinion. Just go onto the website and read the comments, they're all slaps on the back, feel-good posts.
And when you did block me, I DID send you an email. Did you have the guts to write back? NO. Did you have the guts to allow a difference of opinion on your website? NO.
So don't go around acting like you're all honest and true, and I'm sneaking around in the shadows - it's all about you, and how you can make money off the public road that you have over-exploited.


Again, it's all about you. Of course YOU love it there. You're making money with the total investment of a website and a camera. You've incurred no costs as mentioned above, in LEO, EMR, DOT costs for the wear and tear on the road, or liability insurance that pretty much any other company would have to have. Because that is all being paid for by US, the public, who are now not able to benefit from our money on that road. Ironic. You don't care that the people who actually live in Robbinsville are scared to drive on their only way up and over, and you don't care that what was a premier destination is now being over-used and is frankly, dangerous as hell to ride on.
You really make me sick Darryl, and I'll be honest with you, I really mean that. I might disagree with people about things and all that, but I still believe they are good people.
NOT in your case. You are a vile little man, with a huge ego, who is as narcissistic as they come.

[Randy]

Anyone monitour this site.
Scumbag liar, how personal does an attack have to get?
RockRock, you know we monitor this site. The individual has been warned about personal attacks.

[KMC1]

My apologies to those members of the board offended by my angry remarks.
Darryl made it sound as though I was sneaking around saying things behind his back like a coward, and I took offense. It's personal when it's personal, if that makes sense.
I wouldn't have linked directly to his site, nor would I have been directly naming him, if I was worried about him learning how I feel about him. I also wouldn't have gotten so wound up if he would have told the truth about the censorship on Killboy.com, and my previous contact with him regarding the same.
That said, I was out of line, and I again apologize for overstepping the code of conduct for our site.

[jayjacobson]

My apologies to those members of the board offended by my angry remarks.
No offense taken, KMC. I am wearing the model XB 2000 wadless panties. Guaranteed NEVER to twist! That aside, I quite am interested to see if Darryl will respond to your comments.

[Tat_n_Telle]

Why is it that a keyboard and screen can make some people develop a case of gonad elephantitis (big balls)?
Please, if you have a serious problem with someone, just track them down and punch them in the face. Give them a chance to punch you back. Then go have a beer together.
And always remember: opinions are like a-holes. Everyone has one, and mine is the only one that doesn't stink.
Now, what the heck was this thread supposed to be about, anyway???

("Can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King)

[motorman587]

The post was about the crashes on the Dragon. I am sorry I should have never posted that. :) I am glad it was not me getting involved.

[pkpr1998]

:) I've had my pic taken many times on the Dragon and never saw Darryl. I think it was because of this weird habit I have of looking thru corners.

I have pictures of the wife and I carving the curves on the LT where killboy takes the shots, we are scrapping metal (plastic)! WOOHOOO! :D

Good shot Daryl. You do a great job of informing the public of what is going on on the dragon. And as someone said, a good job of keeping 129 clear of debris.

[KMC1]

Why is it that a keyboard and screen can make some people develop a case of gonad elephantitis (big balls)?
Please, if you have a serious problem with someone, just track them down and punch them in the face. Give them a chance to punch you back. Then go have a beer together.
And always remember: opinions are like a-holes. Everyone has one, and mine is the only one that doesn't stink.
Now, what the heck was this thread supposed to be about, anyway???

("Can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King)


It's pretty funny that you use the analogy of Rodney King in your example. "CT man drives to NC to punch a guy"... I'm suuuuure those troopers would have to use "appropriate force" to subdue the subject for that arrest :eek:
I can tell you the feelings I have about issues beyond my control would NOT result in a personal confrontation with anyone on purpose. I have opinions, you have opinions, we all have opinions - but I'm not a radical that goes around trying to beat my beliefs into someone's face.
The thread was about DEATHS on The Dragon. I have a theory why there are more this year than last - wanna here it??? :D

[jayjacobson]

The post was about the crashes on the Dragon. I am sorry I should have never posted that....
Consider yourself officially congratulated, er, reprimanded!
....if you have a serious problem with someone, just track them down and punch them in the face. Give them a chance to punch you back. Then go have a beer together....("Can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King)
Before or after we feloniously flee from officers and then resist arrest?
It's pretty funny that you use the analogy of Rodney King in your example. "CT man drives to NC to punch a guy"... I'm suuuuure those troopers would have to use "appropriate force" to subdue the subject for that arrest....I have a theory why there are more this year than last - wanna here it???
No, the officers should have known better than to chase some poor innocent motorist just out for a little Sunday drive! Why do they have to F'K with everyone?!

Sure, let's here that theory.

[pkpr1998]

Randy, nice avatar!

[Randy]

Randy, nice avatar!It is a guy I ran into near Toad River, BC on my Arctic Circle trip in June.

Click on the image for a larger version
http://www.prades.net/alaska2007/day18/HTML/197i2501_std.jpg (http://www.prades.net/alaska2007/day18/197I2501.jpg)

[pkpr1998]

I hope you didn't stick around long enough to get head-butted!

By the way, great pics of that trip.

Is the goat a subliminal message of where CCR will be next year?!!!! HA HA!

[Randy]

Is the goat a subliminal message of where CCR will be next year?!!!! HA HA!It could be.

If you are at the banquet Friday, August 31 you will get a liminal message ;)

[pete1102]

This week after navigating a cage trip in Washington and all it's lessons, I came home and read this. For some reason, we as humans forget the boundries we have created. The "tail" will never be a conquest as long as everybody in the world has access to it. If you really want to be the ultimate "I did it" thrillseeker, get a pass to a authentic road racing track and run your ego there. There, you, will truly meet your match. Anyone who runs the dragon looking at their stopwatch needs to add several minutes in it for the woodsided station wagon full of children who is on the road for the directions, not the experience. I have an LT, and FWIW I ignore the speed limit from time to time on the magnificent roads I live with here in Western North Carolina. I also know that "every rose has it's thorns" and if I forget that fact, I will "experience" the thorns. Having been a Paramedic, I truly understand the meaning of an "accident," and my heart goes out to the remaining family of the victims of this "misunderstanding." Misunderstand the bike, conditions, and the road having had tragic consequences. I have decals adhered to my console, they read in Chinese: Joy, Patience, Wisdom. Whenever I feel "frisky" I remind myself of my purpose. They ARE: Joy, Patience, Wisdom. As always, ride safe, have fun, and in the words of Clint Eastwood: "A Man"s got to know his limitations!"

[jwd98056]

I
Lets just outlaw motorcycles and we won't have this problem.
What!!!! And let all those sports cars and hot rodders have it all to themselves??????

:histerica

[Zotter]

If they outlaw motorcycles, only outlaws will have...

wait.