Pulse spark plugs

[bflemingor]

Has anyone tried the new pulse(d) spark plugs in the K12?? Are they worth the expense?

The hype kinda reminds me of the old capacitive discharge ignitions - and those did work.....

[andy]

I can't prove it, BUT

-) If everything is true, Don't you think the car manufacturerers would be the first ones to jump on that product?
-) They CLAIM that they get higher combustion chamber pressure. Now THAT if it in fact IS true can destroy your engine rather quickly. One way of getting higher combustion chamber pressure is to have pre-ignition (detonation) and what that does to an engine you can ask Dave Shealey.
-) Also they CLAIM that a 'standard' ignition circuit 'heats up' the elements before the plug occurs. Looking at that from and electrical point of view that is complete and utter nonsense.

And then there are a few more electrical 'oddities' in their description as to why and how they work.

Bottom line: to *ME* that sounds and smells and tastes like snake oil.

[jwd98056]

-) If everything is true, Don't you think the car manufacturerers would be the first ones to jump on that product?

While usually true it is not always the case. Synthetic oil is but one example of a small independant company beating the automotive industry to the punch. There have been many occations where the automotive industry has been forced into new technology either due to competitive pressures or regulation.

-) They CLAIM that they get higher combustion chamber pressure. Now THAT if it in fact IS true can destroy your engine rather quickly. One way of getting higher combustion chamber pressure is to have pre-ignition (detonation) and what that does to an engine you can ask Dave Shealey.

Flame front speed can impact pressure and the ignition process is important to maximizing efficiency and reducing emissions. This pressure increase due to changes in the spark would be rather small and not likely to be harmful for any street designed engines.

BMW went to dual spark systems to meet emissions, improve mileage and for other performance benefits. Of course the design of the combustion chamber and the control of the fuel/air ratio has more impact than the ignition source unless the head design is totally screwed up.

-) Also they CLAIM that a 'standard' ignition circuit 'heats up' the elements before the plug occurs. Looking at that from and electrical point of view that is complete and utter nonsense.

Your BS detector is working well indeed ;). Current, not voltage, creates heat in an electrical circuit through resistive losses in wires and components.

In addition most ignitions today are capacitive discharge systems which counters some of their other claimed benefits like consistant sparks.

Bottom line: to *ME* that sounds and smells and tastes like snake oil.

I wouldn't want to bet against your opinion :D.

[Jabrown]

I went to their website and checked out the video's. I first saw them in a Popular Science mag and well I thought it was crap to begin with. I am not an engineer but I know there are hotter plugs and colder plugs but I was always under the assumption that once a flame has been kindled that the flame front was almost a constant. I mean once it is lit its lit no matter how hot the source that lit it. I may be a cornbread redneck but I won't be buying into this $25 plug hype.

[Tat_n_Telle]

Bottom line: to *ME* that sounds and smells and tastes like snake oil.


I agree, but my question to you is this: how do you know what snake oil tastes like? (Yuck)

[andy]

Kind of in between of DOT4, 85-140 and Biodiesel

[grifscoots]

Kind of in between of DOT4, 85-140 and BiodieselSounds goot to me, though you'll never catch me tasting them:p

[jwd98056]

The temperature rating of the spark plug is actually related to its ability to remove heat from the cylinders. "Hot" plugs usually have shorter ceramic sections and radiate heat less efficiently. "Cold" plugs are longer and radiate heat faster. This is a function of thermal dynamics and not anything the spark itself might be doing. The temperature range is important because if the electrode temperature is too hot for the mixture, pressure and octane rating of the gas mixture then detonation or even pre-ignition can occur. Too cold of a temperature range and the plug can foul.

Most design optimization of spark plugs revolve around the concept of improving the size and shape of the "flame kernel". This is the initial combustion phase when the spark just starts to ignite the fuel/air mixture. The design improvements usually involve either changing the design of the ground electrode configuration so it optimizes the shape and directionality of the kernel or moving the center electrode further into the combustion chamber. There is a lot of good science that has gone into these optimizations with the single goal of burning all the fuel/air mixture in the cylinder as fast as possible. This is so that there is nothing left left to burn by the time the temperature and pressure in the cylinder increases to the detonation point of the fuel mixture.

A hotter spark or higher energy transfer , as claimed by the Pulse design, might improve the consistency of the flame kernel but would also need to include some combination of these other design improvements to have any significant effect on the combustion efficiency. It does look like they have extended the center electrode but the design of the ground electrode will do nothing to improve the shape or direction of propagation of the flame kernel. Their claim of a megawatt spark is pure BS. The fact that they are using watts rather than joules to describe the energy of a spark is illuminating, pardon the pun :D. To experience the spectacle of a megawatt of power released in 2 billionths of a second you might want to look at the sun. :histerica

[Jabrown]

enlightening :histerica

[dshealey]

The temperature rating of the spark plug is actually related to its ability to remove heat from the cylinders. "Hot" plugs usually have shorter ceramic sections and radiate heat less efficiently. "Cold" plugs are longer and radiate heat faster. ---------------------

I agree with everything you said, except the above. Hot plugs will normally have the longer ceramic "nose", the cold plugs the shorter. It is not radiation that cools the plug, but heat conduction to the metal and into the head. Long ceramic slows down the conduction, short ceramic speeds it up.

Also the design of the ceramic to metal interface in the plug assembly can have a big affect.

[dshealey]

There may be some slight advantage, but most ignition systems these days are already "high energy" systems.

They make some claims that just don't make sense. Especially the one about the ignition circuits heating up as the voltage builds before the spark occurs. That one is total nonsense. When the voltage is building, but the spark has not yet occured, there is no current flow. Only current flow can heat circuit components.

So, based on that, I call BS on these plugs. Now, if someone totally independent on the company, with no ties whatsover can prove that they actually can make a difference, and how much, ---------------.

[jwd98056]

Right you are Dave. That's what happens when I think both my surviving brain cells are firing at the same time when it really just means the echo from just one of them firing is returning at the same moment in time :D.

I was looking at it from an unconventional viewpoint. I wasn't referring to the length of the nose. For whatever reason I was mentally visualizing the cross section of the spark plug and thinking of how much of the heat transfer area to the engine block and to the central electrode was fully covered by ceramic. Ass backwards I know, mental dyslexia :crazy:. Hopefully I didn't confuse anyone

[Sofitel505]

I normally refrain from saying a spark plug did this or that, but in this case I will say it. These NGK iridium's (DCPR7EIX) DID make a difference in smoothness and mileage. The OEM dual electrode plugs were not in bad shape but I had the tupperware off anyway, so changed them to the NGK. Immediate improvement. For $6-7 a plug compared to the BMW price, hard to beat. I use them in every motor I own now.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/cars_trucks_suvs/iridiumix.asp

[bflemingor]

I appreciate the feedback - I find that most of these projects are done on 1954 235 Chevys (or equiv), which was why I tossed to question to the combined technical expertise of our forum.... :D