Switching from a Goldwing to a BMW LT

[Greyhound]

:think:

I have been thinking about trading my GL for an LT. I am somewhat dissapoiinted with the Goldwing problems: front end wobble and the overheating at low speed, inadequate tires for touring, trunk lid problems, crack frames on earlier than mine models etc. I have fixed the wobble of my GL with tappered bearing and Traxxion.

My reluctancies after reading several posts here is that you folks have as much, or more, problems with the LT than the Goldwing has. Your front end wobble seems incurable and the LT appears to have driveshaft problems. The LT is difficult on low speeds. I drive a lot in city traffic so I am concerned about the latter. I also expect to do a lot of cross country touring in the coming years. Can you put a backrest on an LT for the driver? Highway pegs?
Has anyone made videos for maintanace instructions? Are Beemer dealers as bad as Honda?

Any opinnions, counseling, warnings, exsoultations, encourament or any other respectable whining and bitchhhing about the realities of owning an LT???

Your comments are appreciated. Thank you!

Greyhound

[jdunique]

Greyhound
I made that same switch, I sold my 02 Wing because I just didn't like it and I too had my reservations about buying an LT especially after reading about all of the problems that were/are discussed on this forum. I finally decided to take the plunge but beacuse my reservations were strong I bought a used 99 to just "try it out" I found one that had all of the extra's and had low mileage hopped on an airplane and flew to WVa. to purchase it and drive it back to Fl. That was three years and 30,000 miles ago, I have since sold the 99 and purchased an 03, and every time I ride it I wish I had discovered it sooner, sure just like everything else the LT has it's quirks and if I were one of the unfortunate few that have had a serious problem I guess I would be unhappy but to be honest no matter what the problem I will have a BMW under me instead of a Honda.
I don't know where you live but there are several places around the country where you can rent an LT and my advice to you is to spend the money to rent one for a weekend, ride it as much as possible, if you are fortunate and live near the mountains the ride will really be special but either way on Monday morning my money says you will be visiting a BMW dealer to talk trade good luck with your decision and Ride far, Ride Often, Ride Safe!!

[Dewman]

I too had a 2002 GW and sold it after the over heating issue and potential crack in the frame (found out later that the bike did have a crack and had to be repaired). It did not give me a lot of confidence riding a bike that potentially could break in half. Bought a 2005 LT and what a difference in handling in the mountains (Utah and we have a lot of great mountain roads). As for low speed handling the 05 is much better than the previous years and I don't have any issues with it. The cost of service work is hard to swallow, but I am learning to live with it since the bike performs so well and I don't want to so it myself. There are a few things I miss about the wing like the low end torque and the; let me think, I guess just the low end torque. The paint finish on the LT compared to the GW is night and day different and sooooooo much better on the LT. Lastly I get far more compliments from cagers at c-stores how great my LT looks than I ever did on the GW.
Oh the service people at BMW of SLC are great to work with and the people working there are first class; no complaints.
Dewman

[big_ed]

The LT is a better bike than the GL but you are justified about low speed handling. Sounds like you need to stick with the Goldwing.

Me, I'm gonna lick the challenge because it's a first class machine and worth upgrading my skills.

[gpolakow]

I've had my LT a week and love it. Yes, there are low speed considerations but thee is good advice on this list about how to deal with that. The two best suggestions were maintain a good riding posture. Look out, not down. And lean your body away from slow speed turns to counter the weight. No real problem in traffic, but it does take some practice. LOVE the way it corners, love the acceleration, love the ride.

[bibleman]

Greyhound.

I own a new LT, and also an '03 Wing. The LT Cheerleaders won't answer your specific questions, so I'll try:

Yes, the LT has some issues. Final Drives and lost clutches due to seal failures are the most prevelant, however the final drive failures seem to have been curtailed dramatically in the more recent vintage (like with the GW frame failures). The best insurance (IMO)? Extended warranty. Unlike Honda (on the frame issue), BMW will not perform a recall on what is obviously shoddy design on their final drives. Granted, the final drive is not a safety issue like the frame cracks were, but BMW should have stepped up long ago (as has been discussed ad nauseum on this Forum).

The LT is more difficult in "short" situations (under 5 mph), and while that gets better over time, no increase in rider skill will ever make it as easy to ride in the parking lot as the Wing. It does get "easier". However, over 5-10 mph the LT clearly leads in the handling category - shedding a ton of it's weight.

You stated that you plan to travel a lot. This is key. If you will do most of your traveling on the slab (and especially if you expect to pull a trailer), keep your Wing. If you prefer the "road less traveled", you will really appreciate the handling characteristics of the LT. She absolutely sings in the twisties for such a big machine.

Backrest? Yup, a couple of different ones available. Nice ones too.

Highway pegs? Yes, there are J-Pegs and also the same Mic-O-Pegs that are so popular on the Wings. Good stuff.

Videos for repair? You bet. Some good ones. And this forum is a wealth of information on repair. Also (Coming to a State Near You) are member held "Tech Sessions" where lots of riders gather at a Member's home to perform repairs and upgrades. A great opportunity to meet your fellow LT'rs and get some educations and work done on the cheap.

The dealers are better than Honda (for the most part), but much more sparse. My dealer, Max BMW, is a Prince and very close by. Where you live will dictate the answer to this question for you.

If your local dealer is like mine, he'll let you take an LT for an EXTENDED test ride. My dealer told me at 10am when I asked him how far I could take it, "I close at 6".

What you didn't ask:

Seating. Stock seats suck, just like on the Wing. Custom seats from Corbin, Russell, Mayer and others are available.

You like to add farkles? Tons available - although more for the Wing. The alternator will support all the electronic gizmos your heart can conjure.

Lighting? The newer LTs come stock with Xenon lamp. Not as powerful as the Wing, but lights up the night pretty nice. Additional PIAA lighting available from many sources including BMW.

Brakes: Power assisted (actually Servo Assist). Reminds you of the first time your parents let you drive the "nice car" with the power brakes. Hang on or prepare to kiss the windshield. It's worth getting used to. Stops on a dime.

Speaking of the windshield. Powers up and down - even while riding. A nice feature.

Power Centerstand. There is nothing fun about lifting a 800+ pound bike on it's Centerstand. The power stand is fabulous (and a conversation starter) The negative? If the damn sidestand was worth a damn, I wouldn't need the Centerstand much. The Sidestand should be renamed the "Gather your friends to watch your LT fall down device". Both Honda and BMW should swallow their pride and steal HD's great "Jiffy Stand" design. Solid as a rock.

All that said, the LT is more expensive to own - make no mistake. It has it's foibles.

But it's just so damn FUN.

Screw what I or anyone else thinks. Take a ride and see if it "speaks" to you. And if you have a SO, bring her along. If momma ain't happy, no one's happy.

[UncleRock]

Don't do it
Rock

[rando]

The slow speed stuff is nothing but a thing. I have had mine since Aug 06 and it gets better every ride. I rarley even think about the slow speed tipovers at this point. The only time I scare myself is practicing U turns on the MSF range. I am down to about 22' u turn. A u-turn on my street is no big thang. Any big bike is going to feel large, but I even do U turn to park on gravel at work and it's no big deal if you practice low speed stuff and get used to it. It's just a bike and it responds to your inputs.

Like, the GW, it has it's issues, but most every bike out there has something you can find on the 'net to turn you away. For me, the LT was as nice a bike as I could get for the money.

My front will wobble if I decel at around 40 and let go of bars. If I have my hands on bars, I can't even feel it trying. At hwy spds, no wobble yet.

Many LT's go for miles and miles with no issues. Just like wings.

My LT gets better to me every ride. No issues in only a few miles. But I like it and think it's a fine machine.

Randy

[grifscoots]

:think:

Your front end wobble seems incurable GreyhoundFront end wobble? Incurable? What front end wobble?

[Mike_H]

I'm glad I did. Here's a link to my earlier post.

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=183047&postcount=9

[Shriker]

Bibleman had a very good writeup......I have spent a few thousand on the newer Wings and they are GREAT bikes. That said I have now spent a few thousand on older and newer LTs and they too are GREAT bikes.

Two different approaches to the same touring question. In the Wings favor is:
Engine Power- though the LT is excellent , especially the newer ones, in this category , Wing is King without any argument. Though , significantly , the LT matches its peak power and thumps it solidly in the fuel mileage dept.

Handling- Wing great in the parking lot and U turns , LT , especially the older ones with more ground clearance much better in the corners. Where do you ride ? in the parking lot?

Comfort- Wing is more roomy one or two up but otherwise both are superb. Electric windscreen very handy on LT and its cruise control is better. Wings suspension adjustment is nicer but suspension is not as refined or controlled as the newer LT's.

Pricing is about the same if you compare apples to apples though the Wing now offers an airbag and has a better premium audio. Both depreciate rapidly , but no smart investor buys a bike as an investment any way, they are toys to be enjoyed , period.

Reliability and maintenance- Both have had their issues as mentioned above. Generally both are very reliable machines but I think given everything the edge may go to the Wing though its really up to you as to what you deem critical like a frame crack vs. broken rear diff. As mentioned What front end wobble on the LT ? These are tire related issues.
BMW's are more expensive to service than Hondas and there are fewer dealers. Like any make and model , you get on the internut and you will here the WORST case scenarios the most. EVERY car, truck or bike I have owned and gone to the corresponding forum has scared me initially.....then as you ride more you realize the actual percentage of problems is VERY small relative to the total number of bikes out there. Even the LT's "dreaded rear end failure" has only affected a relatively small percentage of bikes even in the worst year (mine :( ) according to the surveys here . And remember that these record ALL failures at ALL mileages (many of these failures with many miles on them)for those that participated.

Intangibles-these little things make a big difference. A Honda is not a BMW, meaning the bavarian mark's status, reputation, recognition , etc.(deserved or not) as a German performance machine. BMW goes its own road and I for one like it. Controls and other things are just engineered differently and give them a unique feel (sometimes quirky). The Honda though excellent in every regard lacks this "personality" because of it. You will pass ALOT more Wings than LT's, whether you like this or not is up to you. The newer electrohydraulic centerstand is VERY useful (though being 6'1"~260lbs, I have never had a problem with the bikes top heaviness or getting it on the manual center stands) on a machine this size.

As mentioned , go ride an LT and if she appeals to you buy a year old (or two if you want a newer one) model avoiding the big price hit (if that is important to you). They are great machines you just need to find out if they are for you or not......good luck and hope this helps :bmw:

[atrovarious]

You will look and possibly feel younger on the LT :D

[dshealey]

You will look and possibly feel younger on the LT :D

I heard a rumor though, that you can retrofit the ADQD (Automatic Dairy Queen Detector) unit from a Gold Wing to an LT. :histerica

I don't think many have tried it though, still a lot of GWs at Dairy Queens, but I have yet to see an LT at one.

[jrlakin]

I have ridden a GW, and it is a very nice bike. Comfortable, lots of power, and handles well. Having said that, it does not compare with the LT as far a handling and the "fun" factor. Frankly, I don't think the LT is all the awful at lower speeds. I think for an 850 bike, it is pretty darn easy to ride at low speeds. At higher speeds, it is surprisingly nimble, and handles more like a sport bike. Personally, my bike (2000) has no "head shake" whatsoever, and the more I ride it, the more I love it. Dealer availability is an issue however, and because of expenses of repairs, I don't think I would purchase another one without having an extended warranty.

[juggler]

I did it. Sold my 2004 GL1800 (which was the only one of my 17 or so motorcycles I bought new) and bought a 2000 LT. I am a happier person and much more at peace with the universe.

Somewhat less luggage capacity on the LT. I rode a GL1500 for nine years and the GL1800 for two. I have had no problems handling the LT at any speed (only on a slippery muddy hill on which any bike would have gone *splork*). I think the stock radio on the LT is better than the stock radio on the GL1800. The LT's heated grips work better than the GL's. The adjustable windshield rocks, althought on the GL, I never felt the need to adjust it. Integrated luggage locking is nice on the GL -- except when the stoopid saddlebag won't open at all and you always get that stoopid flashing display telling you a lid is open when it's closed.

Stock lighting on the LT stinks. Headlights on the GL are much better. (BTW, I think the taillights on the 2005 and newer GL1800s look stoopid, especially since the lights on the trunk changed, but the ones on the saddlebags didn't.)

Overall operating cost seems to be about the same. LT gets better mileage, but requires premium. Maintenance intervals and costs are different, but in the end come out about the same -- maybe a bit higher on the LT.


I use my motorcycle mostly for commuting.

YMMV

[bpd283]

I heard a rumor though, that you can retrofit the ADQD (Automatic Dairy Queen Detector) unit from a Gold Wing to an LT. :histerica

I don't think many have tried it though, still a lot of GWs at Dairy Queens, but I have yet to see an LT at one.


Dave - You obviously haven't been following me on a hot day. Its my favorite cool refreshment - SLURP

[Michaeldale]

All I know is I love the LT. I have had several bikes over the years and once I even had a GW. At that time I didn't think there was another bike in the world that was any better. I went to the local dealer one Saturday and took a test ride and that's all it took. I was hooked. This last weekend a group of us took a trip to the twisties in WVA. There was a GW(06) in our group and he was leading the way, which was okay. What ever floats your boat. Now to get to the rest of the story. I mentioned to my CEO of the house after a few beers, "I wouldn't mine looking at a new GW". To my shock she was all for it. After waking up and picking myself up off the floor. I had to confess, I rather drive my (01) LT than purchase a new GW. Even after the blessing from the bean counter. If your serious about it go test ride a LT if not better stay clear of the dealership. Because you bring one home with you. Good luck. MK :bmw:

[grifscoots]

I heard a rumor though, that you can retrofit the ADQD (Automatic Dairy Queen Detector) unit from a Gold Wing to an LT. :histerica

I don't think many have tried it though, still a lot of GWs at Dairy Queens, but I have yet to see an LT at one.MMMMMM, Cheesquake Blizzards! Especially after one of those tough, teeth gnashing days!

[Jabrown]

I keep seeing this Greyhound getting thrown around and well.. Why are we talking about Buses on this bike forum :histerica :rotf:

[Zeke]

Hey All;

Got 73000 on my 02 no problems. Remember bad news travels fast.
You never hear about the good shops do you. The same with the wings or any car you buy. I have had 200$ nova's you cant kill and 5000$ toyota that were always dead. I think someone said there is a 5% failure rate, well to me that translates to 95% fun. Enjoy her its THE BEST BIKE you will ever own.
After 36 years of ride time the most fun on 2 wheels. And about the slow speed handling, DONT GO SLOW. But I and many others can do lock to lock u turns. Have fun.

Zeke

[BMWDave1173]

I've never ridden a GW, but have owned an 86 and 89 Yamaha Venture which I thought were great bikes, but hard to compare to the GW! I was like you with what to get next though and decided to try the used route first to see how that went. I found my 2001 LT last year with just over 6000 miles on it and have really enjoyed it immensely. I, like others before me though, have noted the lack of low end torque that I was used to in my Venture, but other than that, it has been an absoulute joy to ride!! If you pull a trailer this will be an issue as far as the torque goes. Heavier than the Venture, but better handling and I think, easier to get onto the centerstand as well! Much better built as well! Very solid bike, yet nimble in the twisties!!!

I haven't had any of the "issues" that you are reading about here, but think that bad news does travel much faster than good!

I haven't had to take mine into have any work done on it yet, but know that time will come. Dealers are fewer and farther between vs the Honda dealers so it will be an experience for me when that happens as well.

As far as accessories, there are lots of them out there to choose from so that shouldn't be a factor in your decision on what to buy! Enjoy the shopping!!

[hschisler]

I heard a rumor though, that you can retrofit the ADQD (Automatic Dairy Queen Detector) unit from a Gold Wing to an LT. :histerica

I don't think many have tried it though, still a lot of GWs at Dairy Queens, but I have yet to see an LT at one.Once, I saw 3 BMWs at a Dairy Queen: 2 LTs and a GT!

[KMC1]

Once, I saw 3 BMWs at a Dairy Queen: 2 LTs and a GT!


HAHAHAH! BUSTED!! :histerica

[Greyhound]

Gentlemen,
(Using that word loosely)

Appreciate all the comments. A fair display of opinnions

The BMW dealer in my town is a Honda dealer and they dont even stock LT, though they carry a couple of Beemer's more sporty models.

One more inquiry:

How are those LT tires? Goldwing seem to have very poor tires in my opinion. They dont last very long. They are hard as a rock and they seem to small for that bike. The LT tires are even smaller, is that correct? Any tire issues? What are the best tires?


If you get the dreade "head shake" (front wheel wobble at 40) is it repairable or terminal?

[steamboatjohn]

How are those LT tires? Goldwing seem to have very poor tires in my opinion. They dont last very long. They are hard as a rock and they seem to small for that bike. The LT tires are even smaller, is that correct? Any tire issues? What are the best tires?

LT tires stick like glue. People report differing mileage longevity, from 8K to 18K. Not many tires available for the bike, due to the necessary weight rating. ME880 are all that I have run. There are Bridgestones and Avons available. The new Avon Storm is getting rave reviews.

If you get the dreade "head shake" (front wheel wobble at 40) is it repairable or terminal?[/QUOTE]
Headshake seems to be most frequently caused by tires left slightly out of balance by installer, although there may be folk out there who have had issues with worn steering head bearings.
Good luck with your decision. My only comment is that my order of preference is:
1) LT 2) GW 3) HD EG

[bibleman]

The stock tires on Wings (DunFlops, I believe), are quite pathetic.