Got a "performance award" in Texas?

[deputy5211]

Did you get a performance award, aka speeding ticket, in the State of Texas?

Did you know there is a way that you might keep it off your driving record, even if you have an out of state driver license?

Generally speaking. . . many times one can request "deferred adjudication," which is like an unsupervised probation. Contact the responsible court, typically identified on your citation, for their specific procedures (and always consult an attorney for legal advice based on the specifics of your case).

NOTE: CDL holders are typically NOT eligible for this option.

[zippy_gg]

Yes, as a matter of fact I did get such an award from a TX trooper.:o

I followed the advice of a good buddy of mine in TX and lo and behold I just received in the mail today a receipt for the fine and my Deferred Disposition Order stating that if I keep my nose clean for the next 90 IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES:eek: the conviction will not be on my CDL record:dance:
I will need to provide a copy of my driving record to the court and all will be well again!
Thanks for the advice "good buddy from Texas" (you know who you are;) ). I hope you like beer!:beer:

[bustedknuckles]

NOTE: CDL holders are typically NOT eligible for this option.
Tony.......if the LEO just happens to forget to check the box marking you as a CDL holder you can! Don't ask me how I know.............. ;)

[Dick]

Did you get a performance award, aka speeding ticket, in the State of Texas?

Did you know there is a way that you might keep it off your driving record, even if you have an out of state driver license?

Generally speaking. . . many times one can request "deferred adjudication," which is like an unsupervised probation. Contact the responsible court, typically identified on your citation, for their specific procedures (and always consult an attorney for legal advice based on the specifics of your case).

NOTE: CDL holders are typically NOT eligible for this option.
I... unhh ....er.... got a spee......unhhhhh.... a performan........errrrrrrrrr.... OK - a speeding ticket!!! There!! Satisfied?!?!?! :cool: :p ;)

Well, coupla years ago, me and ole Toad is floatin' along 'tween Boerne and Sisterdale, mindin' our own bidness and catchin' the breeze. Meet a mountie comin' tuther way - whooops; quick check the GPS and it sez 86!! :eek: Yikes! He rolls on by; we're down to the limit (60) and I'm back to breathin' - whew! Then I see it's the fourth of July back there and here he comes. We chat and the ticket reads 72 in a 65??? I take it to the neighbor lady JP and she sez do the deferred adjudication, take a defensive driving course, pay me 32 Abe Lincolns and bring me the course completion certificate. I say I'm scheduled to take the MSF ERC course for motorcycle riders - that work?? She sez ;) ;) "bring me the completion certificate and stay low and slow for 90 days" ;) ;) I say "Yes, Ma'am" and I don't hate myself nor the LEO anymore!! Stayed off my record and apparently didn't attract attention at the insurance company either.

Thanks for the memories, Tony. :rolleyes: Good advice too. Friend of mine did the deferred thang several years ago and wuz told not to get another ticket in the county where 'it' happened - easy task, since he doesn't live near that county!! Costs more than the ticket fine, butt keeps the records clean.

[deputy5211]

One of our friends who recently got such an award while transiting our fine state recently. He's happy as a clam now. I started this thread as a community service to call attention to the option now that others are planning their spring and southern LD rides.

It's actually works even better for folks with out of state licenses because they don't have to take the safety course like a Texican would.

[jeffklt]

Wished to heck I'd a known this when the jerk in Decater gave me a performance award on my way to CCRIII. I was actually nearly lost and doing 5 miles under when he wrote me for 9 miles over. Still paying higher insurance because of him :mad:

[messenger13]

I'll be in Texas next week. This information could come in handy!!! :p

[UncleRock]

Did you get a performance award, aka speeding ticket, in the State of Texas?

Did you know there is a way that you might keep it off your driving record, even if you have an out of state driver license?

Generally speaking. . . many times one can request "deferred adjudication," which is like an unsupervised probation. Contact the responsible court, typically identified on your citation, for their specific procedures (and always consult an attorney for legal advice based on the specifics of your case).

NOTE: CDL holders are typically NOT eligible for this option.
How about getting a cop buddy from Texas to fix it :cool: before it goes to court?
Rock

[messenger13]

How about getting a cop buddy from Texas to fix it :cool: before it goes to court?
RockHook a brother up!!! :)

[zippy_gg]

I'll be in Texas next week. This information could come in handy!!! :pAn ounce of prevention is better than a ton of paperwork!:rolleyes:

[jrlakin]

As a Deputy Prosecuting Attorney in Jasper County Indiana, I can tell you that SOME counties in Indiana have what we call "Deferral" programs that can keep certain tickets off of one's record. However, in Indiana each "Deferral" program is operated by the Prosecuting Attorney's office in each respective county. The Court does not run the program, the Prosecutor does. Because of this, not all counties have this program, and also because of this, the rules and eligibility for Deferral varies within each county that has the program. Generally, you agree to play a higher fee than the original fine would cost, and you are required to NOT get any more tickets for the duration of the program. Most programs are of 6 months, but it can be up to a year. The entire fee is based on the length of the program you are under. Typically a 6 month deferral is $182.00, and a year Deferral is $242.00. In my County, your speed cannot exceed 25 mph of the posted speed zone, and none are allowed in Work Zones. In my County, you cannot have more then 3 moving violations withing a 4 year period, and you cannot currently be under any type of deferral program in this or any other County or State. The usually cost of the ticket for those speeds are between $120--$150. Under Indiana Law, NO CDL holders are allowed Deferral, regardless of what type of vehicle you are driving. In fact, under Federal Law, no one holding a CDL is suppose to be allowed to use deferral type program, or any program that masks a driving record. If you get a ticket in Indiana, you need to call the County Prosecutor's office before your court date to see if they have a program, and if you are eligible. jrlakin

[deputy5211]

That's good information. Anyone have any factual information from other states -- on the subject of deferrals for traffic citations -- that may be of value to our membership?

[WildernessJeep]

Or you can just pay a lawyer a hundred bucks to get rid of it, and never think about it again. Most lawyers can shoot a hole through a ticket so fast, the prosecutor won't even try, and even then, the prosecutor won't go through a jury trial for a measly $150 fine. Even then, you can appeal it, and the prosecutor sure isn't going to waste his time running to Austin for $150 bucks.

Ahhhhh. Innoccent until annoyed otherwise.


FYI, I have heard that most CDL tickets get lost in appellate obscurity.

[jrlakin]

Oh how wrong you are, as least in most jurisdictions in Indiana. First of all, you won't find to many lawyers that will do a traffic case for $100. Try $250 minimum. Secondly, in most states, and especially in Indiana, traffic citations are civil infractions. The burden of proof is "preponderance of the evidence", which basically means more likely than not. Just try to get a Jury trial in a traffic case!!! Try to hire a lawyer to represent you in a Jury trial for $250.00. About the only time I ever lose a traffic case, is if the Officier doesn't show up, and even then I can often win those because on civil cases, you don't have the right again Self Incrimination. That means I can call you as a witness and make you testify against yourself. I can't speak to every jurisdiction in every state, but your changes of winning traffic tickets is slim. CDl's don't get lost in my County. That I can assure you. I am not suggesting hiring a lawyer is a waste of time either. What I am saying is hiring a lawyer isn't that cheap, or fool proof. jrlakin

[jrlakin]

Two other things! Do you have any idea how expensive it would be to appeal a Traffic Ticket? Bet you are talking at a minimum of $1500. Do you have any idea what your chances of winning an appeal are? NOT VERY GOOD!!!! Courts hardly ever overturn the judgment of the Trier of fact. jrlakin

[kdog]

Tony.......if the LEO just happens to forget to check the box marking you as a CDL holder you can! Don't ask me how I know.............. ;)

What's a CDL?

Thanks,
-joel

[deputy5211]

What's a CDL?

Thanks,
-joel

Commercial Driver License

[deputy5211]

Oh how wrong you are, as least in most jurisdictions in Indiana. First of all, you won't find to many lawyers that will do a traffic case for $100. Try $250 minimum. Secondly, in most states, and especially in Indiana, traffic citations are civil infractions. The burden of proof is "preponderance of the evidence", which basically means more likely than not. Just try to get a Jury trial in a traffic case!!! Try to hire a lawyer to represent you in a Jury trial for $250.00. About the only time I ever lose a traffic case, is if the Officier doesn't show up, and even then I can often win those because on civil cases, you don't have the right again Self Incrimination. That means I can call you as a witness and make you testify against yourself. I can't speak to every jurisdiction in every state, but your changes of winning traffic tickets is slim. CDl's don't get lost in my County. That I can assure you. I am not suggesting hiring a lawyer is a waste of time either. What I am saying is hiring a lawyer isn't that cheap, or fool proof. jrlakin

In Texas it's a bit different. . . you find attorneys taking out billboard ads advertising $45 traffic ticket defense. I imagine you get what you pay for, and that other fees apply if they have to actually show up for court.

Most of the ADAs deal away many of the citations for reduced fines, deferred adjudication, and so on. The ones that do go to trial often don't go well for the defendant, and like jrlakin pointed out, the attorneys know this.

It is interesting to see the differences in the different courts around here. It all depends on the judge. . .

[deputy5211]

Two other things! Do you have any idea how expensive it would be to appeal a Traffic Ticket? Bet you are talking at a minimum of $1500. Do you have any idea what your chances of winning an appeal are? NOT VERY GOOD!!!! Courts hardly ever overturn the judgment of the Trier of fact. jrlakin

In Texas, many traffic citations are handled by JPs, which are not courts of record, IIRC, since one does not need to be a lawyer to become a JP, just enough votes to win and some training after the election. Appeals from JP Courts are fairly common when defendant is represented, and the next court up becomes the finder of fact, so to speak, IIRC.

[WildernessJeep]

Oh how wrong you are, as least in most jurisdictions in Indiana. First of all, you won't find to many lawyers that will do a traffic case for $100. Try $250 minimum. Secondly, in most states, and especially in Indiana, traffic citations are civil infractions. The burden of proof is "preponderance of the evidence", which basically means more likely than not. Just try to get a Jury trial in a traffic case!!! Try to hire a lawyer to represent you in a Jury trial for $250.00. About the only time I ever lose a traffic case, is if the Officier doesn't show up, and even then I can often win those because on civil cases, you don't have the right again Self Incrimination. That means I can call you as a witness and make you testify against yourself. I can't speak to every jurisdiction in every state, but your changes of winning traffic tickets is slim. CDl's don't get lost in my County. That I can assure you. I am not suggesting hiring a lawyer is a waste of time either. What I am saying is hiring a lawyer isn't that cheap, or fool proof. jrlakin


Hiring a lawyer is that cheap, I've done it, and in Texas, everyone, even a pro se client is entitled to a full, recorded, prosecuted jury trial, with a full discovery and full entitlements to appellate law.

The simple reality is that at some point an attorney can shoot holes in most traffic court charges somewhere in a documentation formality. Something as small as a clerk typing that the vehicle was leaving a driveway instead of Way Drive can cause the prosecutor to have to go back and refile all the paperwork correctly, including the original charges, the policeman's affidavits, etc. etc. It's simply not worth it to the state if the maximum sentence is only going to carry $75. Especially not if the lawyer threatens the prosecutor with a trip to Austin in six months for the appeal. The reality is that for a simple traffic violation with nothing else riding on it (ie: a speeding ticket), the prosecutor will just let the attorney's client go 99 times out of 100.

Trust me, I have gotten and weaseled out of plenty of performance awards, in Texas and other states. I'm getting pretty good at it.

BY FAR, the nastiest performance award you can get is one in a national park. It is a federal crime, and you can actually do federal time for it. Plus, it'll cost you thousands to get a lawyer to step foot into a federal courthouse, which is normally a very long distance from your house. Those you just pay. The good news is that the feds don't share the information with the states unless the state specifically asks for it.

I used to have a buddy that would walk around with the quote: "Traffic Tickets are the tax you pay for the right to drive fast."

He's in jail now, but it is an interesting quote.

[McRuss]

What have you been smokin'? Most lawyers just deal speeding tickets or any other traffic ticket, something you can do yourself for free! Appeals 'usually' have to have a reason. In Colorado you can appeal a ticket from a municipal court to county court but must have a legal reason to appeal any higher. And the CSP writes into county court. In my old Colorado LEO days, there was no such thing as deferred for traffic but it may have changed.

Or you can just pay a lawyer a hundred bucks to get rid of it, and never think about it again. Most lawyers can shoot a hole through a ticket so fast, the prosecutor won't even try, and even then, the prosecutor won't go through a jury trial for a measly $150 fine. Even then, you can appeal it, and the prosecutor sure isn't going to waste his time running to Austin for $150 bucks.

Ahhhhh. Innoccent until annoyed otherwise.


FYI, I have heard that most CDL tickets get lost in appellate obscurity.

[jayjacobson]

Commercial Driver License
But on the left cost a CDL is a Kalifornia Driver's License....or would that be a KDL?........

[deputy5211]

But on the left cost a CDL is a Kalifornia Driver's License....or would that be a KDL?........

I thought it was Kehlefawnya. :bmw:

[zippy_gg]

I thought it was Kehlefawnya. :bmw:It sounds so funny when you say it with a Texan accent!!!:rotf:
Please say: I am da govahnah!:histerica
Just wait until you hear that with my French accent...:rolleyes:

[deputy5211]

I thought it was Kehlefawnya.
It sounds so funny when you say it with a Texan accent!!!:rotf:
Please say: I am da govahnah!:histerica
Just wait until you hear that with my French accent...:rolleyes:

Oh, the humanity!! :eek:

[VADIVER]

Hiring a lawyer is that cheap, I've done it, and in Texas, everyone, even a pro se client is entitled to a full, recorded, prosecuted jury trial, with a full discovery and full entitlements to appellate law.

The simple reality is that at some point an attorney can shoot holes in most traffic court charges somewhere in a documentation formality. Something as small as a clerk typing that the vehicle was leaving a driveway instead of Way Drive can cause the prosecutor to have to go back and refile all the paperwork correctly, including the original charges, the policeman's affidavits, etc. etc. It's simply not worth it to the state if the maximum sentence is only going to carry $75. Especially not if the lawyer threatens the prosecutor with a trip to Austin in six months for the appeal. The reality is that for a simple traffic violation with nothing else riding on it (ie: a speeding ticket), the prosecutor will just let the attorney's client go 99 times out of 100.


Sorry, but this just doesn't make sense to me. Private lawyers are the ones working at an hourly rate. If they have to do more work they charge you for it and you pay more in legal fees. Prosecutors do not work by the hour and if someone is attempting to be difficult, they do not have to worry about the resources. The resources are all taxpayer dollars and they will get a pay check regardless of how many times the charges have to be filed. Look at the Duke rape case. A prosecutor can make your life much more difficult than you can make his. Then again, maybe things are different in Texas.

It seems to me, there seems to be more incentive for a citizen to just pay the ticket and move on, than to create issues. Of course, that is how the system is designed.

[fas]

Joe,

They may take your bike, dump you in the tank, and NOT give you a phone call if you do some of your .....slightly above the limit stuff. Be careful and come back to OH in one piece!

BTW, KTM is going gang busters. You gotta come home so we can talk.

[jayjacobson]

I thought it was Kehlefawnya.
Yup, land of socialism. That be us! (Which is really ironic when you remember where the governator is originally from!)

[WildernessJeep]

Sorry, but this just doesn't make sense to me. Private lawyers are the ones working at an hourly rate. If they have to do more work they charge you for it and you pay more in legal fees. Prosecutors do not work by the hour and if someone is attempting to be difficult, they do not have to worry about the resources. The resources are all taxpayer dollars and they will get a pay check regardless of how many times the charges have to be filed. Look at the Duke rape case. A prosecutor can make your life much more difficult than you can make his. Then again, maybe things are different in Texas.

It seems to me, there seems to be more incentive for a citizen to just pay the ticket and move on, than to create issues. Of course, that is how the system is designed.


You are right, the prosecutor has a ton more resources at his disposal, however, he is also paid a ton less than his defense counterpart, and is doing 2 or 3 times the amount of work.

THE REALITY IN TEXAS: They (the local courts) are in business to make money. Very few traffic tickets (that I have gotten) have anything to do with upholding justice or saving the community from gangs of rouge bikers. The traffic ticket system in Houston is designed to make money, and it does. They have now recently gone (in Houston) to eliminating the middle man (LEO), and just setting up automatic camera systems. This works, and they make tons of money. The prosecutor has 99 out of 100 people that just pay. They don't really care, they just want out, here's the money. That one guy that is going to take up two days of his life, he really doesn't care about. It's not like I have victims he will have to answer to, he (the prosecutor) just wants to be left alone to collect from the other 99 peaceful constituents. If my lawyer can give him a good reason to let me off the hook (ie: the charges say driveway, not Way Drive), the guy just drops the charges, and lets me walk.

To be clear, if there are other forces at work, say from a traffic accident or where they really have victims to answer to, annoyance is not a very good defense tactic, and will probably only lead to a more vigorous prosecution. You should also be very clear with your lawyer about how much it will cost. Here in Houston, we have traffic court law firms, that will truly "get you off" for less than $50.

Just doin' what works for me......


Sidenote: Unfortunately the vast majority of the traffic offenders are poor, minority, and/or uneducated. Don't believe me? Go look at the racial profile of any normal traffic court docket. I'd be surprised if there are 5 white males out of 100 offenders. Ever wonder why???

My personal opinion is that they already have a generally defeated sense when it comes to the court system, and they just pay.

[WildernessJeep]

What have you been smokin'? Most lawyers just deal speeding tickets or any other traffic ticket, something you can do yourself for free! Appeals 'usually' have to have a reason. In Colorado you can appeal a ticket from a municipal court to county court but must have a legal reason to appeal any higher. And the CSP writes into county court. In my old Colorado LEO days, there was no such thing as deferred for traffic but it may have changed.


"He who acts as his own attorney has a fool for a client."

Very smart attorneys don't even act as their own lawyer in anything that matters (traffic court really doesn't), mostly for two reasons:

1) It is probably very specialized. Divorce, criminal defense, injury or loss, corporate fraud, etc all have very specialized branches. If an Oil and Gas lawyer wants a divorce, he will probably go hire a divorce lawyer. He won't pay full-bore prices, but he'll have co-counsel.

2) It's easy to become emotionally attached. One of the advantages of being the hired attorney is that you can make cold, rational decisions about the case. If it's you that has to do the 15 months, you might make mistakes about the weight of prosecution's evidence, and decide to go to full trial, ending up with a 10 year sentence.




And by the way, in Texas, you get an appeal to the first level if the judge sneezes. It won't go beyond that, but the prosecution won't spend hours and hours drafting an answer to a petition for review over a $150 fine either.

[WildernessJeep]

What have you been smokin'? Most lawyers just deal speeding tickets or any other traffic ticket, something you can do yourself for free! Appeals 'usually' have to have a reason. In Colorado you can appeal a ticket from a municipal court to county court but must have a legal reason to appeal any higher. And the CSP writes into county court. In my old Colorado LEO days, there was no such thing as deferred for traffic but it may have changed.


"He who acts as his own attorney has a fool for a client."

Very smart attorneys don't even act as their own lawyer in anything that matters (traffic court really doesn't), mostly for two reasons:

1) It is probably very specialized. Divorce, criminal defense, injury or loss, corporate fraud, etc all have very specialized branches. If an Oil and Gas lawyer wants a divorce, he will probably go hire a divorce lawyer. He won't pay full-bore prices, but he'll have co-counsel.

2) It's easy to become emotionally attached. One of the advantages of being the hired attorney is that you can make cold, rational decisions about the case. If it's you that has to do the 15 months, you might make mistakes about the weight of prosecution's evidence, and decide to go to full trial, ending up with a 10 year sentence.




And by the way, in Texas, you get an appeal to the first level if the judge sneezes. It won't go beyond that, but the prosecution won't answer an appellate petition for review over a $150 fine either.

[deputy5211]

And by the way, in Texas, you get an appeal to the first level if the judge sneezes.

Sorry, I have to call you on this. The judges is no longer required to sneeze; a slight sniffle is now all it takes. Haven't you been reading the updates? ;)

[messenger13]

Well . . . I am now fully qualified to get involved with this thread. No! I did NOT get a performance award in TX. But I DID ride in a vehicle that Tony was driving. And I DID ride with Tony. If any ONE person deserves to be arrested for "fracturing the posted speed limit", that boy does! MAN O MAN ALIVE! He is NUTS!!!


Had fun Tony! ;)

[deputy5211]

Well . . . I am now fully qualified to get involved with this thread. No! I did NOT get a performance award in TX. But I DID ride in a vehicle that Tony was driving. And I DID ride with Tony. If any ONE person deserves to be arrested for "fracturing the posted speed limit", that boy does! MAN O MAN ALIVE! He is NUTS!!!

I have no idea what this messenger person is talking about. My Mad Cow is flaring up, but I seem to recall something about passing a truck and Valentines I think? Hmmm? I'm seeing a number. . . 111? Now colors. . . red? blue? What could this all mean? Joe, can you help me out here? :crazy: :histerica


Had fun Tony! ;)

I enjoyed it as well, Joe. You're always welcome back here in our home.

[KeithTxDallas]

Well . . . I am now fully qualified to get involved with this thread. No! I did NOT get a performance award in TX. But I DID ride in a vehicle that Tony was driving. And I DID ride with Tony. If any ONE person deserves to be arrested for "fracturing the posted speed limit", that boy does! MAN O MAN ALIVE! He is NUTS!!!


Had fun Tony! ;)

Joe, I think it was more survival....... Pleasure meetin' ya and the Spine Dr! Ya'll come back ta Tejas when you get a chance!

Tony, kidd'n ya man. I'll ride with you anyday.... Great Catfish and looking forward to the next run up that way !!

[deputy5211]

Well . . . I am now fully qualified to get involved with this thread. No! I did NOT get a performance award in TX. But I DID ride in a vehicle that Tony was driving. And I DID ride with Tony. If any ONE person deserves to be arrested for "fracturing the posted speed limit", that boy does! MAN O MAN ALIVE! He is NUTS!!!

Had fun Tony!
Joe, I think it was more survival....... Pleasure meetin' ya and the Spine Dr! Ya'll come back ta Tejas when you get a chance!

Tony, kidd'n ya man. I'll ride with you anyday.... Great Catfish and looking forward to the next run up that way !!

You guys are brutal! :D

[atrovarious]

That's good information. Anyone have any factual information from other states -- on the subject of deferrals for traffic citations -- that may be of value to our membership?
I got a ticket IN THE BIG TRUCK mind you, obviously with a CDL in NC and the county prosecuter told me it IS their practice to amend speeding tickets for CDL holders because the punishment otherwise so vastly exceeds the crime. Though this is the exception as opposed to the rule I understand.


I would assume that if they are this giving for CDL holders they may be just as giving for non CDL holders.

My experience is that it all depends on the jurisdiction. You could get the same violation in the same spot and the outcome would depend on who wrote the ticket and what court sees your case. Several possibilities. Ie not based on the state as much as the court.

[deputy5211]

My experience is that it all depends on the jurisdiction. You could get the same violation in the same spot and the outcome would depend on who wrote the ticket and what court sees your case. Several possibilities. Ie not based on the state as much as the court.

I am inclined to agree with your statement up to a point. What I was looking for was state law, which sets the guidelines for what the various jurisdictions can do.

By way of example, one of our members got a speeding ticket in Texas. He was not familiar with our laws and did not know about the deferred adjudication process. Since I have a working knowledge of the Texas Transportation Code, I suggested the concept and then contacted the local jurisdiction who gave me what their local process was. Was similar in substance to the other courts I have worked with in Texas.

That said, thank you for bringing the jurisdictional factor to the table. Good information for all to keep in mind.

[zippy_gg]

By way of example, one of our members got a speeding ticket in Texas. He was not familiar with our laws and did not know about the deferred adjudication process. Since I have a working knowledge of the Texas Transportation Code, I suggested the concept and then contacted the local jurisdiction who gave me what their local process was. Was similar in substance to the other courts I have worked with in Texas.

I bet you that member is really happy!!!:D