3 up

[Tailwheel]

Ok, I know some will have some strong personal thoughts on this topic, but I want to know if there are any laws (in Florida) preventing me, my wife and our 3 1/2 year old son from taking a ride on my LT? There is no minimum age for a motorcycle passenger, he has a DOT helmet and we try to be as safe as possible. I know I have seen trikes with 3 passingers and I saw a gold wing with a side car that had 4 people onboard. I just want to know if we can ride legaly with 3 on 2 wheels. I think we will have a side car for the LT soon but in the mean time can we ride?-legaly-
D

[deputy5211]

Are you looking for what is legal or what is prudent? May be legal, but . . .

Also, I think it may not be as much about how safe and cautious you are, it's often the "other guy" you need to worry about.

[RaffyK]

Depends on the state.

Here in California, the passenger (or passengers if implied) must have their feet on the foot pegs. In your case, in California you might end up with a ticket for not having the 3rd set of pegs and possibly get charged with child endangerment.

[Tailwheel]

Are you looking for what is legal or what is prudent? May be legal, but . . .

Also, I think it may not be as much about how safe and cautious you are, it's often the "other guy" you need to worry about.
Of course I think of the other guy, My father doesen't walk right because of the other guy. Recently we have heard of a kid in our son's age group drown. Danger is around every corner. We underatand there are caculated risks.
Last weekend we had 2 teenage boys break into our home. Do you think if their dad had the involvement and took them on a motorcycle ride they would be the criminals they are now?

[deputy5211]

Last weekend we had 2 teenage boys break into our home. Do you think if their dad had the involvement and took them on a motorcycle ride they would be the criminals they are now?

If the dad had involvement. . . Hard to say. I have seen kids from "good" homes in "nice" neighborhoods turn out to be real hose-bags.

Do I think dad taking them on a motorcycle ride at 3 1/2 YOA would make a difference in whether they made bad choices when they were teenagers? IMHO, no.

My suggestion as a father of three and as a LEO: Get a good sitter, or leave your young child with family or friends, when you and the SO want to go for a ride.

[jayjacobson]

Of course I think of the other guy, My father doesen't walk right because of the other guy. Recently we have heard of a kid in our son's age group drown. Danger is around every corner. We underatand there are caculated risks.
Last weekend we had 2 teenage boys break into our home. Do you think if their dad had the involvement and took them on a motorcycle ride they would be the criminals they are now?
Dave, you posed a very interesting question. I would have to approach from a moral standpoint, rather than a legal one.

I don't know what the traffic is like in your area of Florida. But, in Southern Kalifornia, I would NEVER allow ANY juvenile on my bike, even my own kids. We are way too populated and too many people just don't give a shit!

I commend your commitment to your son. Your guidance and loving attention will keep him off the FBI's top 100 list. I would encourage you to seek other activities to share together, however.

BTW, as far as the break in, I live in the ghetto. We're talking hood central! A security system is the best investment that you can make in your home, if your haven't already.

[Rick-L]

Interesting question. I've often wondered about it myself. Never seen it but thought about it. I assumed there were laws (as Raffy pointed out) and questioned the safety, even if all riders were adults.
Sometimes I wonder about things though just for the sake of wondering...

[Tailwheel]

Jay,
Please be assured that the traffic that I would be interested in taking my son into is nowhere near what you deal with on a daily basis in California. iI did get a security system afer the break in. Also if I had your situation in CA I'm not sure we would let him in the car! We are other wise very conservative in our riding but feel we want to take our son with us. We have plenty of adequate grandparents nearby. A side car is in our near future so I feel that the grandparents who ride will be traveling alot with us.
D

[Tailwheel]

Patti would also rather ride her own than sit behind me and our son. LIke I posted before we are wondering what is legal for us.

[tbarstow]

Like Raffy pointed out, most states will have a law requiring that all passengers be able to put their feet on pegs. Some may go as far as stating "that passenger footrests may not be modified from the standard location." (I seem to remember that one from Minnesota laws.)

Check the AMA website and the DMV websites for your particular state.

[was]

Like Raffy pointed out, most states will have a law requiring that all passengers be able to put their feet on pegs. Some may go as far as stating "that passenger footrests may not be modified from the standard location." (I seem to remember that one from Minnesota laws.)

Check the AMA website and the DMV websites for your particular state.
+1. Get the legal scoop from DMV, or, sometimes better, call the nearest State Trooper station. I'm not gonna comment on what I think you should do (assuming that it's legal), that's your business. If I were making the decision and I could figure out how to give him good body protection as well as head protection we'd go riding.

[Lonewuff]

You asked for legal, so I will avoid the personal from a retire LEO prespective (which has pretty well been stated):

Florida Motorcycle Laws:

316.2095 (1) Any motorcycle carrying a passenger, other than in a sidecar or enclosed cab, shall be equipped with footrests for such passenger.

There are a few other law on the books about seats and design that would prevent you from riding three up also.

So, have you looked at sidecars?

[Tailwheel]

Thank you for your input.
We are planning on purchacing a side car in the very near future. I posted some questions I had about one in the LT fourm last night.

[slowflyn]

I seem to remember a column in Flying magazine where Richard Collins suggested the risks in flying single engine planes and motorcycling were similar. Assuming you take your family up in your Piper, and they are not wearing ATGATT, they may be safer on the bike. ;)

[fas]

Thank you for your input.
We are planning on purchacing a side car in the very near future. I posted some questions I had about one in the LT fourm last night.

Love the tandem seats in the J3.:yeah: I soloed in a J3 while a sophmore in college. When we flew over the open hearth furnaces that were in Pittsburgh the plane popped up. Coming out the other side, it dropped. Welcome to thermals! Piper was an account for a while when I was in the aircraft brake/ wheel/tire business. I attended their 100,000th rollout and they flew a J3-Cub that day with a stall speed of 29 knots.

As far as your young man goes, I'd suggest telling him NO until he can really comfortably reach the footpegs. My fear is the kid falls asleep and falls off the bike.:sleep: You'd never forgive yourself.

Sorry to hear about your break in and the fact that kids did it. Happened to my brother in Jeannette, PA. Kinda takes away your faith in the race when it's your home.

[gerryrenstrom]

If you have to ask you probable know it's not a good idea.

[Tallyho]

The 2006 Florida Statutes
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Images/dividers/600x3_gradient.gif

Title XXIII (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Index&Title_Request=XXIII#TitleXXIII)
MOTOR VEHICLESChapter 316 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0316/titl0316.htm)
STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROLView Entire Chapter (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0316/ch0316.htm)316.2085 Riding on motorcycles or mopeds.-- (1) A person operating a motorcycle or moped shall ride only upon the permanent and regular seat attached thereto, and such operator shall not carry any other person, nor shall any other person ride on a motorcycle or moped, unless such motorcycle or moped is designed to carry more than one person, in which event a passenger may ride upon the permanent and regular seat if designed for two persons or upon another seat firmly attached to the motorcycle or moped at the rear or side of the operator.

40 seconds to find using a well known search engine.

[jayz9705]

You can call this a "strong personal thought" if you like, but, IMNSHO, carrying a small child on a bike without proper facilities is indefensable.
Talk all you want about your abilities, the lack of traffic, etc, etc, the pure fact is that if things go into the toilet, as they are prone to do on a bike, it will happen VERY fast, and the child will be the one who gets the short end of the stick.
Picture a full grown adult falling on a child from seat height. Now add speed and multiple roll-overs onto the child, or using the child as a skid plate. Tell me all you want about how atheletic you are, how carefull you are, how little traffic, and so on.

Doing what you are thinking of is NOT being a responsible parent, period!

[Serendipity]

Ok, so I just wrote out this whole long reply explaining what some people misunderstood about the initial query from Tailwheel, how amazingly hurt I was by some in the thread accusing us of being horrible parents, etc.

I erased it all. I thought of all the other times I have seen someone ask a simple question on a forum and have people come out of the woodwork passing judgement on their decisions when they did not even remotely ask for their opinion. Then the person attacked tries to explain themselves, sometimes a little too defensively, the attacker responds because now they feel attacked and ta-daaaa flame war.

I am soooo not going there. Thank you to those who provided the requested information without passing judgement, and especially to those (Slowflyn and a few others) who get where we are coming from.

Hope to meet some of you at the BMW RA Rally.

[BMWphreak]

Perfectly legal in Taiwan... I saw 3 plus the family dog on a scooter there.

I don't believe you can do it legally, because the LT does not have 3 seats. The same would apply to your car. You could be pulled over for having three people in a 2 seat sports car. (I'll leave the arrangement of the 3 to your imaginations...)

[RonKMiller]

You can call this a "strong personal thought" if you like, but, IMNSHO, carrying a small child on a bike without proper facilities is indefensable.
Talk all you want about your abilities, the lack of traffic, etc, etc, the pure fact is that if things go into the toilet, as they are prone to do on a bike, it will happen VERY fast, and the child will be the one who gets the short end of the stick.
Picture a full grown adult falling on a child from seat height. Now add speed and multiple roll-overs onto the child, or using the child as a skid plate. Tell me all you want about how atheletic you are, how carefull you are, how little traffic, and so on.

Doing what you are thinking of is NOT being a responsible parent, period!

I dunno Jay - mebbe I'll put some street tires - notice it has cut outs for wheels - on this bad boy and put the WIFE and KID back there next tour... the styling compliments the LT really well, and just think about all the reduced whining. Toss in a porta potty and you are good to go - and go - and go!

Hell, it even has SEAT BELTS for all the safety Nannies! :rotf:

[UncleRock]

Live your own live, don't let these do good hand wringers, piss on your parade, kids bounce much better than grown people anyway. It's their fault we have all these stupid F#%king mouth breathers in the gene pool. By making kids where helmets to ride bikes roller skate etc., they have tampered with nature's natural selection.When I was handing out flyers at the motocross track about all the shit the EPA had coming down the wire. My line was you want your kid handling a crack pipe or an exhaust pipe. Went thru 5K flyers in 3 hours.
I was brought home from the hospital, wrapped in a leather jacket between the knees, on the tank of a HD,UL. Much (I've been told) to the screams and panic of the nursing staff, who sent the police to our house. (Yeah first day out in the world, I ride a bike and get the cops called on me, Wonder if that was a sign :eek: ?)
Rock

[RonKMiller]

Live your own live, don't let these do good hand wringers, piss on your parade, kids bounce much better than grown people anyway. It's their fault we have all these stupid F#%king mouth breathers in the gene pool. By making kids where helmets to ride bikes roller skate etc., they have tampered with nature's natural selection.When I was handing out flyers at the motocross track about all the shit the EPA had coming down the wire. My line was you want your kid handling a crack pipe or an exhaust pipe. Went thru 5K flyers in 3 hours.
I was brought home from the hospital, wrapped in a leather jacket between the knees, on the tank of a HD,UL. Much (I've been told) to the screams and panic of the nursing staff, who sent the police to our house. (Yeah first day out in the world, I ride a bike and get the cops called on me, Wonder if that was a sign :eek: ?)
Rock

:histerica :histerica :thumb:

[motorman587]

Scoll down to F.S 316.2085

http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us//ddl/utc/APPENDIX_C.pdf

[UncleRock]

Scoll down to F.S 316.2085

http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us//ddl/utc/APPENDIX_C.pdf
After reading this , Thanks John:
I think it would take more mods than most would be willing to do to their LT. :eek:
I however would not mind doing it to yours, :D we will chop off the tour pack, and make a old style rumble seat complete with pop out foot rest.
Only question I have is; do you have tools or you going to bring the bike up here.
Rock
PS. I have a self deployed step mech (just like on an Airstream we can use for the foot rest

[motorman587]

I have twin daughters and think about what I am going to do when they went to ride with Daddy.

[Tallyho]

I can't believe this thread is still going. http://www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/images/temp/horse.gif

[jwimberley]

Tony,
I am curious about whether you bought your 2005 k1200lt from BMW Ft Worth? My friend from Lawton, OK traded one like it on a 2007 RT. Not bad news just rode with him when he traded and had a need to post something on the net.
Jim Wimberley

[jayjacobson]

I been thinking about that too....
I try not to think. It always gets me in trouble....

[motorman587]

I know me too.