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View Full Version : Why I Hate My LT...Gripe Fest


browad
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:53 pm
Ok, I haven't done a complete forum post about my current nightmare, so here it is with the latest crapfest.

Some background:
I got my 2006 LT in the beginning of December from Daytona BMW for a pretty good used price (from a dealer, anyway) with a touch over 9000 miles and the remainder of the factory warranty (this will be important later). I put some miles on it which brought me to the 12k service. Brought it into Daytona, driving through absolute crappy Florida weather (cold and raining the entire way), and had it at the dealer for the entire day, literally from open to close, 9 to 5. The only item besides service that I told the dealer is that the centerstand was not working correctly, that sometimes it did not engage and sometimes it just stopped in the middle of lifting. Fast forward to the end of the day, and three things happen: 1) I get a bill for over $1000, 2) They tell me that they did an electrical test and the centerstand is "not working right", and 3) they scratch my topcase. Oh yeah, and they didn't wash my bike. I was there so long that as soon as they wheeled my bike out, they shut the gate to the shop. I made an issue out of the scratch, and the end response was that after a few waxes it would go away. Nice. After that, I just wanted to leave, go home, and sleep.

A few days later I called the dealership to find out how they were going to fix my centerstand. As they knew it was "not working right", they were going to order every part for the centerstand and swap stuff out until it worked "right". I thought it was just the handlebar switch, but ordering everything sounded reasonable and a nice solution. After thinking about it for a bit, I decided to get my service done in Daytona's sister dealership in Orlando. It's an easier ride, and having been unimpressed with Daytona I wanted to try something different. Talked to Daytona and they shipped the parts over and set up an appointment for me.

Fast forward a bit, and went by Orlando to drop the bike off and chill while they dealt with the "not working right" centerstand. The tech, a very nice guy named Cory who actually talked to me, said he was going to replace the centerstand actuator and see how that worked. Fine. I chilled out in the waiting area (they actually had one!), read some mags, looked at some BMWs, and talked with Mike Dozier, really nice guy whose card says he is a Sales Representative. I didn't hold that against him. Anyway, after about an hour or so Cory came out and said the job was done, but there was a problem. He found a leak. Oh Christ, this is not good. Small leak from the input seal on the transmission. Caught it very early, and only saw it because it is right above the centerstand module that he had just replaced. Nice luck. Replacing that would take about a day and a half, so scheduled it for the following week.

In the interim, my centerstand is still acting up, so add that to the list. I drop my bike off the next Tuesday and my girlfriend takes me back to Gville. I decide to pick up the bike that Saturday because my schedule was tight, and being dropped off and picked up from work is so much fun :) . Saturday I go down with my girlfriend, my sister, and my sister's truck. Thinking about just putting it in the bed, but that behemoth is fairly large. So I get down there, talk with the service manager about the fixes, and get geared up for the ride back. Did a walk around and found some light scratches on a saddlebag and talk to the service manager. Solution: some wax coats and it'll be fine. Yeah...heard that before. I actually get on the bike, and after about a mile something is wrong when I'm shifting into first. There is a weird shudder when the clutch is halfway released. As it's stop and go traffic, I play with the clutch and find a "sweet" spot where I can get the entire bike to oscillate and shudder so much that the windshield vibrates quite a bit and the bike has a nice mechanical rattle. After a few hundred feet of soul searching and lane changing (I really wanted to get out of there) I pop a U-turn and head back.

Talk to the service manager, and he'll send a tech as soon as he finishes up. I see Mike, who said "Didn't you leave?" That's exactly how I feel. While I'm waiting for the tech, I go into the parking lot and start playing with the clutch, and get the bike to "shudder" and hold it. The service manager comes out, having heard the horrendous sound from inside the shop, and says he's never heard anything like it. I love being original. Grab Mike and show him this, and he is floored. I show him the sweet spot, and he plays around with it and takes it for a quick spin. Not only did it shudder for him, but also the front end wobbled really hard during a test emergency stop. Not cool. Tech grabs it up and reseats the splines in the rear end. That helped some, but the shudder is still there. End result is they're keeping the bike and replacing everything with the word "clutch" in it.

I had called my sister and girlfriend when I got back to the dealer and had them stop at a rest stop until I figured out what was going on with the bike. Worst case was them turning around and picking me up, which is what happened.

Right now the trip to a BMW dealership had become almost a weekly occurrence. The only good thing was that everything besides the 12k service was under warranty. That's the only good thing. At this point Orlando is going to trailer the bike back to me when it is ready, which is good because having to go to a dealership kills my entire day, and the day of whoever drives me there.

As of now, there is no way I would consider buying another BMW motorcycle, and am giving serious thought to getting rid of my LT. As much as there is to love about the bike, which is considerable, I have had so many serious issues that I'm not sure I can trust the bike for long distance. And that's the point of having it. The service manager advised to give the bike some time after I get it back, which is sound advice. I'm also going to talk to a lawyer friend about Florida's lemon laws and see what kind of legal recourse, if any, I have. When I was talking with a biker friend of mine about my day, he asked kind of jokingly if I would rather have my Harley back. Right now, yes I would. I had no issues for the first 3 years, which is more than I can say for my BMW. I know that most people have had nothing go wrong with their BMWs for hundreds of thousands of miles, but that has not been my experience.

Today pissed me off. Incredibly pissed off, almost to Pluto pissed off. I'm glad that the staff at Orlando is treating me as well as they can, but they can only do so much. Arrrrgggg!!!!!!

Thanks for listening to me gripe, bitch, and just bounce off the walls for a bit. :mad: .

messenger13
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:27 pm
I highly recommend hanging a 'For Sale' sign on it as soon as you get it back. That'll show em! :stir:

Morley
Mar 4th, 2007, 12:44 am
If they don't/can't get it fixed...Lemon Law. Cut your losses and either get your money back or tell 'em that you want a NEW bike.

Rick-L
Mar 4th, 2007, 1:01 am
Lemon law for a USED vehicle??? Not sure about Florida law but I've never heard of that. Am sorry to hear of the repeated troubles though.

KMC1
Mar 4th, 2007, 1:02 am
That sucks man! I hope things turn around for you soon, the nice weather is about to start!

Zotter
Mar 4th, 2007, 2:50 am
Used bike with issues??

Seems some one ahead of you may have smelled the coffee brewing.

billybiker
Mar 4th, 2007, 4:33 am
In my experience BMW do make some lovely machines but if you want reliability then it has to be a Honda!

motorman587
Mar 4th, 2007, 5:40 am
Why do you hate the LT?? I bought a used LT in 2004 with about 15K on it. I knew in the beginning that if I buy used, car or motorcycle, I was buying somebody else's problems. Not saying the person before abused the motorcycle, but you do not know the history of that motorcycle, or you may and just did not post it. Back to my used LT. About a year later I had to replace the shaft in the tune of $800. Was upset about the bike, no, again I do not know what TLC it got from the other owner. My alarm in the LT at this time does not work, do I hate my LT. Nope, best motorcycle I have ever owned. I understand your frustration and I would to be up set, but that is best part of owning a motorcycle. It is the adventure. This to will past.

Ever thought about Miller BMW in Tallahassee?? It has to be closer than Daytona or Orlando. Less traffic at both places. Just wondering.

tmgs
Mar 4th, 2007, 7:36 am
Ok, I haven't done a complete forum post about my current nightmare, so here it is with the latest crapfest.


well first i would be seeing just who is going to fix the scratches, then as I have had some experience dealing with central Florida BMW dealers, I would recommend headed up to Dusty in Tallahassee, so far I have heard no complaints from that dealer.

that or head north to Atlanta and have BMW of Atlanta fix the problems, they are busy shop so do not think you are going to get it done tomorrow <g>

Tom

tmgs
Mar 4th, 2007, 7:38 am
If they don't/can't get it fixed...Lemon Law. Cut your losses and either get your money back or tell 'em that you want a NEW bike.


he would have to go through BMW NA for that, there is NO Lemon Law on motorcycles in FLorida

Tom

tmgs
Mar 4th, 2007, 7:39 am
Lemon law for a USED vehicle??? Not sure about Florida law but I've never heard of that. Am sorry to hear of the repeated troubles though.


there is no lemon law for new or used vehicles under 4 wheels in Florida period

dasBike
Mar 4th, 2007, 7:50 am
Adam, I feel for you. You seem to have a tiger by the tail. I would not give the Daytona group another chance at righting the wrong. Perhaps consider contacting Miller BMW in Tallahassee - a huge difference in quality service. Hang in there!

BeamerT
Mar 4th, 2007, 8:08 am
I was told after my bill of $1650.00 of which BMW paid 1/3 that ''they`re great bikes once you get the bugs worked out of them''. Clutch, two main seals and various other goodies. The owner said it was an anomoly. Never seen anything like it. It`s an '03' with 17,000 mi. I called the sevice dept. within the 30 warranty period and reported oil under the bike. He told me to monitor the level closely and when I brought it in for service they would address it. Two weeks later when my 30 days had elapsed my clutch went out. The owner said the phone call meant nothing. The bike had to physically be at the shop for the warranty to be in effect. This was Euro Cycles Of Tampa Bay. They had the bike for one month. I`ve got it back. It runs fantastic. I`m definitely going to give the bike a second chance as it is an awesome machine. I`ve talked to many BMW owners that have had great luck with theirs. J.D. Powers rated BMW right up at the top along with Victory so they can`t be all bad. I love mine. End of story. Best of luck with yours.

mtrevelino
Mar 4th, 2007, 8:41 am
I would purchase a extended warranty tomorrow! You will still have to pay for your 12k, 24k, 36k, etc. services but everything else will be covered.

Tim_Poupore
Mar 4th, 2007, 9:03 am
My used-KLT experience is a bit different. I bought a demonstrator (likely thrashed by everyone who rode it before me - I know I thrashed it on my demo ride) with 10K km on it in 2001. To date, (50K km later - and I hope I'm not jinxing myself by saying this) only the battery has failed me in six seasons of riding. Other than oil, filters and regular maintenance, I've spent zip on it. I read all the horror stories about failed drives, mystery glitches and downright breakages and count my lucky stars. I'm looking forward to the start of Season Seven in a few short weeks. Sorry your experience is not mine. I hope they fix you up properly, you deserve better!

patroa1
Mar 4th, 2007, 9:11 am
Adam, the only thing I would have complained about, besides the scratches , was the $1000.00 for the 12k service, thats way high.

Had mine done along with annual ( all fluids changed, brake, clutch etc.) plus 2 new tires mounted and bought and had installed new windshield. The only thing they did'nt have to do was change oil in crankcase, tranny and final drive, I did that myself. Total bill $1037.65.

As for other problems it sounds like somebody did'nt put it back together right, can you say "Find another Dealer"

As for centerstand that's a known problem, do a search for "centerstand problems" and you will see what I mean.

This sounds like "Bad Service" not "Bad Bike" Just my .02$

ATLDB
Mar 4th, 2007, 9:28 am
NA will be no help, as far as they are concerned the LT is obsolete, I think the only reason they still have it is because the parts bin for still full in Spandau.

Last time I talked to NA CSR person they said and i QUOTE "Oh man I forgot the LT still been made"..... LOL


BUY A 2006 GOLDWING.

Torpedo
Mar 4th, 2007, 10:06 am
As others have said, try Dusty in Tallahassee. Hes a great guy. It sounds to me that most of your problems stem from bad dealerships/service departments rather than the bike itself.

i had a similar experience with one dealer here in Atlanta. Luckily for me there are two dealerships here and the other fixed the problem quickly. instead of worrying about a lemon law that i doubt is possible since the bike is used... i would write BMW about the crappy service that you have recieved. you may get a more productive response.

SmokinJoe
Mar 4th, 2007, 10:12 am
Ever thought about Miller BMW in Tallahassee?? .

Adam,

These fella's have a great reputation, folks like Dave Dragon motor from Tampa to have them do service! Same distance or closer! Was anything done to your bike during the tech session you just had?

BTW there is a little square sensor on the right side of the center stand that has been know to cause problems. It has something to do with protection of the motor from heat etc. my mechanic said he pulled what was left of his hair out (replacing everything) and changed the sensor...problem went away! Also the aftermarket LED's have had some negative effect on the center stand and other electrics due to the modified resistance levels that become employed by their installation. As you know the stand won't work when the clutch, gear, or brake is engaged or the electronics THINK they are engaged.

Did you ever get the screw on? :)

mser
Mar 4th, 2007, 10:23 am
You've certainly earned the right to rant. But, if you were unhappy with the service you received from Daytona, are you surprised it was any different at the Orlando dealership? Posting your unpleasant experiences with the motorcycle, Daytona and Orlando dealerships is appropriate, but don't condemn the entire product line on what boils down to problems with a specific motorcycle and specific dealership.

Mike
'06 GT

browad
Mar 4th, 2007, 12:52 pm
Ok, sleeping on it has calmed me down a bit, but not much. Firstly, as far as the previous history of the bike goes, I made sure to get a repair history from the dealer, and the only things on it besides service are a high speed wobble (they replaced the front tire) and a top box latch problem.

Let me also say that I consider the BMW to be a luxury motorcycle, which commands a premium price. As such, it should have absolutely no problems that require extensive warranty work. Period. Now, some of my problems are definitely exacerbated by dealership mistakes or incompetencies, but the base problems are still there. There is something to be said for every mechanical device having quirks, etc. But for the amount of money that you lay down, and the reputation that BMW cultivates, it should be very minimal. Part of the issue is the increasing amount of technology in modern motorcycles (the more to go wrong :) ), but there are other mechanical problems that should not be there. At this point, having to deal with either a mechanical problem or dealer incompetency is the same negative impact on my satisfaction.

My first concern with getting a BMW was the distance to the nearest dealer. However, from the reputation and feedback from many sources, I was confident that I would only need a dealer for scheduled maintenance, if I chose to go that route. That has not been the case. My bike is a daily ride and my transportation to work. Without it I have to depend on others to get me to work, as well as getting me to the dealer. That kills at least half a day, if everything goes according to plan. Again, that has not been the case.

For condemning the entire product line due to a single product, why not? The LT is the most expensive and one of the most high-end bikes BMW makes. That should make it fairly representative of the entire line. Of course, this one demon bike could be the very exception to the rule, but that does not mean I would trust BMW with my hard earned money again. Once bitten twice shy.

In regards to the 12k service cost, I priced other dealerships that are close, and they all charged $800-900 as an estimate.

For looking at other models, I really don't like the looks of the Goldwing. The new Vision I just stare at and shrug. That leaves HD and the v-twin imports, or go more sport touring. As in my original post, if given the opportunity I would go back to my old HD.

I will definitely give the bike another chance, but it has run out of mulligans. Next major bit of warranty work, and it will probably go on the block.

This is me calmed down a bit, but still nuts with rage. If I have offended anyone, that is not my intention. Thanks to everyone who has taken time to reply with their comments, it helps me from punching walls.

Beat Kentucky,

browad
Mar 4th, 2007, 1:45 pm
Forgot to add this bit.

Previous to picking the bike up, I had been trading emails with BMW NA about my experiences, and for the issues that I was raising, if they answered them at all they blamed the dealerships for the problems. Of course most of these probably do devolve down to the dealer level, but not all. Indicative of their answers was their response to my question about cost of servicing.

"The final cost of the services performed on your motorcycle is determined by the management at each authorized BMW Retailer."

Well, that is true up to a point. Dealers set labor rates, but the job itself is determined by the design of the bike.

The beating of Kentucky is ongoing,

dmatson
Mar 4th, 2007, 8:52 pm
Do you have an Ice Link on the bike? Mine caused the center stand to screw up and cost me $640 in diagonsed fees at the dealer. Ice Link gone stand works great.

dodk64
Mar 4th, 2007, 10:20 pm
that is some sad story, i really feel for you. i don't know what i would have done in your situation. the only thing about selling the bike now is, will you feel right selling someone your bike knowing all the problems ? i don't know if i could sell someone a problem bike. i bought a used 2002 k1200 lt for $10,000 from someone in sc in oct and i am ticked off that i have to replace the throttle cable for $550 that he never told me about.. good luck.

Steve_R
Mar 5th, 2007, 7:14 am
Maybe he did know the throttle cable was an issue. If you ride the bike long enough you might not notice a throttle cable tightening up, especially if it was an extremely slow degrading sequence. Not trying to start a tirade with you, but just observing out loud.

DRothermel
Mar 5th, 2007, 7:44 am
I'd hire a lawyer, sue BMW, get tons of money and buy a HD again!

ronlray
Mar 5th, 2007, 7:53 am
Adam, I feel your pain! A bad dealership with poor service is worse than a bad wife that can't cook! Going to a "good dealership" will heal your ailment. There isn't anything on the LT that can't be fixed by a good mechanic! The trick is finding one. I've had good luck at BMW in Charlotte, NC. I travel over a hundred miles to get there but they actually seem to care. Yea , I know, at $78 an hour for service work ...they should care! I recently had a tranny leak on my 2004 LTC with 31,000 miles on it. Until now the bike was flawless. The day after dropping the bike off I receive a call from the mechanic- Dave. He said you've got a leaking input seal on the tranny but the clutch is not contaminated. He told me however that if I wanted to replace the almost 3 year old clutch that they would do it " no labor charge". I couldn't believe it ...a dealership actually trying to do you a favor! After it was all said and done , I got new tranny seals ( input and output) under warranty, a new clutch, an air filter and gas filter installed ( only charged 1/2 hour labor), and the slave cylinder weep hole drilled...all for $537.85 including the new clutch parts ( $432). WOW! What a deal! Needless to say I am very happy with the Charlotte service department and Dave the mechanic. A good dealership can make you want to keep your bike...a bad dealership can make you want to sell it. It's usually not the bikes fault. I was lucky! Ron Ray

danbrew
Mar 5th, 2007, 10:27 pm
In regards to the 12k service cost, I priced other dealerships that are close, and they all charged $800-900 as an estimate.


Do it yourself - you'll pay about $100 (if that) in parts, fluids, etc.

Oh yeah, Lemon Laws do not apply in the case of used vehicles.

ez_rdr55
Mar 9th, 2007, 2:48 pm
UFB! As for the Big Black Bitch...one more time and she is out of here. I'm so glad I didn't sell my H-D Wide Glide, as I have a reliable backup.

fas
Mar 9th, 2007, 3:56 pm
Adam, the only thing I would have complained about, besides the scratches , was the $1000.00 for the 12k service, thats way high.

Had mine done along with annual ( all fluids changed, brake, clutch etc.) plus 2 new tires mounted and bought and had installed new windshield. The only thing they did'nt have to do was change oil in crankcase, tranny and final drive, I did that myself. Total bill $1037.65.

As for other problems it sounds like somebody did'nt put it back together right, can you say "Find another Dealer"

As for centerstand that's a known problem, do a search for "centerstand problems" and you will see what I mean.

This sounds like "Bad Service" not "Bad Bike" Just my .02$

My 12,000 service on the LT was under $600. Sounds like the FL boys are being greedy. They also replaced the sticky throttle cables FREE during the 12K. No scratches either. Great bike, great service team. Rode it HARD on CRAP roads here in OHIO. Loved it. Upgraded to the GT 'cause I like to go faster, faster...

browad
Mar 10th, 2007, 1:59 pm
Orlando BMW dropped my bike off a few hours ago. Although the dealership had the motorcycle for over a week and did "extensive" test riding, the clunk is still there, although it has changed subtly. Now it has gotten softer, and you only hear it when the rear wheel is moving with the clutch in, then it "clunks" when the clutch is halfway out. I talked to the dealer before the trailer left, and he said to give it a week or so of riding for the clutch to "sit". That is a very comforting statement. They can't diagnose the problem, so I kind of understand his perspective of letting some miles elapse. But to have the clunk still there and not tell me about it up front means that either they missed it on the extensive test rides, didn't test ride it, or someone is lying. None of those 3 possibilities make me feel any better. The parts manager said that he would "treat me right" when I asked if they would pick the bike up if it needed servicing, which is slightly ambiguous.

Oh, and although they had the bike for a week, still didn't wash it. From the way it looks, I also hope they didn't store it outside.

It appears as if my avatar has some foreknowledge. So......anyone want to go for a nice extended ride for my clutch to give out on? ;)

Cheers,

cfell
Mar 10th, 2007, 2:12 pm
I sure hope that thing doesn't catch fire! Might not burn completely.. =)