Would YOU Perform CPR?

[DaveDragon]

I have this blog going asking this question and thought it a good topic for discussion.

http://davedragon.rilysi.com/2007/01/would-you-perform-cpr.html

Please give me your comments or thoughts on this topic.

Thanks

[DaveDragon]

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I corrected the titlehttp://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[UncleRock]

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I corrected the titlehttp://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
I had to look twice to see if that said CPR or CCR.
I have performed CPR, on the floor of an "Eat-N-Park" Resturant kitchen.
It was a sunday morning was standing in line to pay my breakfast bill, when a waitress came out hollering for someone to call 911 and was there a doctor in the house. My chick at the time volenteered me, to give first aid.
Stuff I leraned in the corp just kicked in, he wasn't bleeding, no pulse, so clear the airway, start the breathing, pump the heart in a rythemic fashion, 5 pumps and a breath.
The guy had a heart attack, paramedics got there and took over, the guy lived.
I just slid out the kitchen door, so I didn't have to deal with all the BS.
Rock

[Woolly]

I just slid out the kitchen door, so I didn't have to deal with all the BS.
Rock

Well done Rock, just amazed the paramedics could get in, past all the layers who would have got there 1st.

[SilverBuffalo]

Dave I wasn't able to post a comment, on your blog.
I couldn't get past the visual verification just a red X
If you care to copy and paste my comment please do.

It comes down to what kind of man you are and what you can live with,
I would never again be able to look in the mirror and like what I see
if I didn't do everything to the best of my ability to help save someones life
even if it meant putting mine at risk.

I have been in these situations before
and I didn't take the time to think or way the risk I just reacted.

[JCabranes]

[QUOTE=SilverBuffalo I have been in these situations before and I didn't take the time to think or way the risk I just reacted.[/QUOTE]

About 12 years ago my brother and I pulled into a store to buy a roll-away bed. When we got out of the car we heard a woman screaming hysterically. Her husband was slumped over the steering wheel of his truck. We went over to see if we could help. When we got there I saw the guy was blue and he was competely non-responsive... we pulled him out of the truck and started CPR. My brother did the chest compressions I did the breathing... like you Silver Buffalo, I didn't take the time to think about it... just did it. I still remember the guy's right eye half open staring back at me lifelessly. Fortunately, I didn't start to vomit until after the paramedics showed up and took over. The guy didn't make it but my brother and I did all we could to give him a shot. Definitely not the most pleasant experience I've had, but frankly I don't see how anyone can stand by and watch someone die and do nothing... I'm not wired that way. Just my 2 cents.

BTW Woolly, it's lawyer not layer and I'm one of them.

[cfell]

Let's just say I already know the answer.. Yes... training, natural response...

I've known people's response to range from ecstatic to angry for the "help". Sometimes you just can't do anything right...even if you could return the "problem" ones to their previous state...

Ya just gotta do what you can... after all, if it's their time to go, you won't help. If it is their time to receive help that may change their life... you might. Always better to have tried and failed....than have failed to try.

God bless all those willing to try....

[DaveDragon]

Dave I wasn't able to post a comment, on your blog.
I couldn't get past the visual verification just a red X
If you care to copy and paste my comment please do.

It comes down to what kind of man you are and what you can live with,
I would never again be able to look in the mirror and like what I see
if I didn't do everything to the best of my ability to help save someones life
even if it meant putting mine at risk.

I have been in these situations before
and I didn't take the time to think or way the risk I just reacted.

Thanks for trying to post the comment, I posted it in it's entirety.

Blogger sometimes behaves poorly under certain conditions.

[jorawro]

Yes.
In fact ALL of my business cards have the attached CPR guide on the back. Note the change in procedure (30 breaths for 2 compressions).

[DaveDragon]

Not long ago, Sue and I were in a local steak house enjoining being omnivores when she slapped the table to get my attention and grabbed her throat to show me she was choking.

I jumped up and got her up out of her chair and started to perform the Heimlich maneuver when she coughed up the obstruction.

It happened so fast I hadn't realized I was on auto-pilot. It scared Sue terribly that she had choked, she told me it had never happened to her before.

She was fine after she calmed down but it scared the buhjebus out of me after I sat back down and had a minute to think about it.

You just never know when your intervention can save someone, and I'm eternally grateful that the training had stuck.

[DaveDragon]

CPR training courses are offered by the American Heart Association (http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3012360) (for training courses near you call 1-800-AHAUSA1), the American Red Cross (http://www.redcross.org/where/where.html) and by many local fire departments.

Here is a great on-line resource (http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/quickcpr.html)

[SilverBuffalo]

I can really relate to your story Dave
the most scared I have ever been in my life was just a couple of years ago,
when my 78 year old mother sitting across the table from me at the Golden Corral in Inverness,
started to choke and was unable to speak,
I put a very large bruise on her abdomen in the process of dislodging that piece of fried chicken

[kip]

I was a CPR instructor for years. Fortunately, I have not ever been in a situation where I needed to perform cpr but I hope that if the situation ever arises that I will not hesitate to do it. Several of the people who were in my classes contacted me at some later point and related how that they had performed cpr successfully resulting in saving a life.

There are no telling how many people are alive today because someone near them knew cpr when they had a heart attack or other issue.

I wish that all kids got cpr training in high school.

thats my 2 cents :)

[bigbear]

Here in the great state of Illinois we do have the good samaritan law but... the problem being if you help some one and they decide to sue you must provide your own legal council / attorney. This information is per the Red Cross training I have been receiving for the past few years. You have to prove you were qualified to perform CPR etc...

Depending on location and response time for Ambulance just doing chest compressions is better that nothing for five minutes or so. The medical profession has found that chest compressions also cause some air movement in & out of the lungs. If you don't want to do rescue breathing and an ambulance is enroute the compressions MAY be all that is needed and you are not risking getting HIV or hepatitis etc..

We are told it is "Your" choice to help some one. Never put yourself at risk needlessly. They don't need two victims to care for.

This being said: It come down to a personal choice at the some thing happens. It is your Conscience do what you feel is right.

So let your conscience be your guide.

Roy

[George_S]

I have a good story that relates to "personal choice" in a way you may not have thought of.

I'm a brand spanking new 20 yr old cop (white guy from the suburbs) walking a beat in a dirty,congested inner city. Gotta know the times. Early 70's. Me and another beat cop ran to the address of a report of a "woman down". In her apartment was a young, probably same age as me, woman lying unconscious on the floor. Not just any apartment, but plastered all over the walls were posters of the Black Panther Party with the advice to "Fight The Man!" "Black Power!" etc. Also a poster of a cop hitting someone with a knightstick and the words to the effect to fight back, "kill the racist pigs", etc etc. I got on the floor to asess the woman. My partner stood straight, and I asked him if he was going to help me. He said "No." I asked him what he was going to do and he said "Not a fu$%ing thing. Look around, man." We had about a minute of an argument and I started treating her. Well, he saw me and he jumped in to help and we got her back before the ambulance guys arrived and she lived. It's funny, but I worked with him for eight more years and we never discussed it again.

Had two more saves and many many unsuccessful tries in the next 30 years. One guy, about 70, he lived another 12 years, retired to Florida, etc.

The other one was same time frame as the first, same city, walking the beat, when a hysterical woman ran out of her house to her porch. I was walking by, she literally dropped this lifeless infant into my arms right from the porch. Called for help on my radio, two detectives were close by. Me and one detective did CPR in the back seat while the other detective raced us to the hospital. That kid lived, he had the flu and as infants do, went sour very quickly on the parents. I have faced a lot of shit in my career but can say I was never as scared as when that woman plopped that baby into my arms. I still can recall it and remember how terrified I was, but like others have said, the training all of a sudden kicks in.

One other story on how cops have a sick sense of humor... another one of our beat cops, same as me, 20 yrs old or so, fresh out of the academy, just happened to be so unlucky that he was first on the scene of four or five CPR calls in a two month span. Unfortunately, none of the victims lived. One of the victims collapsed while eating an orange, and this poor cop said he could still taste that orange six months later. He couldn't even look at an orange any longer. Yep- you guessed it, we put oranges in his gym bag, in his locker, in his hat that he left unattended... nicknamed him "Dr. Death" "Grim Reaper." No one would sit near him or talk to him...etc etc .

[UncleRock]

Yes.
In fact ALL of my business cards have the attached CPR guide on the back. Note the change in procedure (30 breaths for 2 compressions).
Maybe I should take a refresher course, I learned it @ USMC Recruit Training Depot, Paris Island SC mid 70'd
Or did you post that backwards? 30 breathes for 2 compressions, I think the brain would start to die from lack of blood carrying oxygen?
Rock
PS I had stuck my leatherman in between the guys teeth when I checked the airway with my finger.

[jorawro]

Thanks Rock -- my brain knew what to type but my fingers didn't:confused: . It should read 30 compressions per two breaths.

[gholt417]

I guess it all comes down to your conscience.
20 years ago I worked as a lifeguard at a summer holiday camp and some chap collapsed and went into cardiac arrest. I never once thought that it was job, I just performed CPR (sort of in auto pilot). The chap survived and I have never forgot the feeling I got afterwards when I realised how i'd reacted. As I manage a health club with a swimming pool I am always first aid trained and I carry one of the disposable face masks with me on a key ring so the risk to me is minimal (got one in the bike as well). I'd do it again (excluding mother in-law).

Graham

[rodgtc]

Yes I have, I am also an instructor for the American Red Cross. I hope there is someone trained and close by when I need it.

Rodger

[jgburns]

I guess this might catch some flack, but here goes.

If the person needing CPR appeared to be an IV drug user or I thought he/she had AIDS, I might not perform mouth-to-mouth breathing WITHOUT something like this:
http://cpr-savers.com/Industrials/Cpr%20prod/induscprkits.html#206cpr
I'm guessing my instinct of self-preservation might be forgotten if a child or someone I know (and loved/liked :rolleyes: ) was in need.

I would not hesitate to perform chest compressions.

[George_S]

I hear ya John, and I have to agree with you. No flack from me.

[KMC1]

What do you call 1000 lawyers (layers) at the bottom of the ocean?

A good start. :histerica :histerica

I'm sorry, I'm sorry... I couldn't resist! :)

[hawg]

Dave,
I suppose it boils down to who and circumstances. I have performed the Heimlich on Linda choking in a restaurant. I have done a few other "life-saving" acts over the years without thinking twice.

But, I would NOT give CPR to Osama bin Laden, my ex-partner, and a few others I could name. :eek:

Lots of circumstances and grey areas. Guess I would never know until after the moment had arisen and passed.

[SilverBuffalo]

Dave,But, I would NOT give CPR to Osama bin Laden, my ex-partner, and a few others I could name. :eek:

I guess this is your way to remind us: "not to piss you off" :)

[hawg]

I guess this is your way to remind us: "not to piss you off" :)


Ha ha!!!

Actooly, outside of my ex-partner and the raghead just mentioned, there is only one other person (using that term loosely) that would fall in that category. So, that's not so bad, is it? Peace and love....except for those three! :thumb:

[messenger13]

I was in a Perkins restaurant a couple of years ago with the family. (Not our choice...mother-in-law!). Anyway... In the booth behind us, I heard something going on. A very old woman was choking. Her "brilliant" son reached across the table and began patting her on the back. :eek: I yelled "STOP!", and jumped out of my chair. I helped her stand up, and was prepared to perform the Heimlich on her. But as she got up, a man was quickly approaching and said, "I'm a paramedic!". I allowed the pro to take over. He grabbed her from behind and performed the Heimlich, and all was well within seconds. She was very thankful, obviously.

I wanted to strangle her son. What a moron! But the fact is, many would've reacted the way he did. Knowledge can save a life.

[hawg]

I was in a Perkins restaurant a couple of years ago with the family. (Not our choice...mother-in-law!). Anyway... In the booth behind us, I heard something going on. A very old woman was choking. Her "brilliant" son reached across the table and began patting her on the back. :eek: I yelled "STOP!", and jumped out of my chair. I helped her stand up, and was prepared to perform the Heimlich on her. But as she got up, a man was quickly approaching and said, "I'm a paramedic!". I allowed the pro to take over. He grabbed her from behind and performed the Heimlich, and all was well within seconds. She was very thankful, obviously.

I wanted to strangle her son. What a moron! But the fact is, many would've reacted the way he did. Knowledge can save a life.


Wasn't there a joke somewhere's about the "hiney-lick" maneuver??? :rolleyes:

[JCabranes]

What do you call 1000 lawyers (layers) at the bottom of the ocean?

A good start. :histerica :histerica

I'm sorry, I'm sorry... I couldn't resist! :)


That's okay... I have a sense of humor... as I hope you do when the inevitable happens and you need to pay for one.

[George_S]

Joe, I think I recall that about 35 or so years ago they did teach you to do back slaps. (Before the days of the Heimlich).Someone as old as me with a better memory might help me out.... ;)

[munson]

Joe, I think I recall that about 35 or so years ago they did teach you to do back slaps. (Before the days of the Heimlich).Someone as old as me with a better memory might help me out.... ;)
Wow, that just reminded me of something that happened a long time ago when I was a Boy Scout on a campout in Colorado, maybe 1967. I got some food caught in my throat and could not breathe. I motioned to my buddy to hit my back. He started to slap it, and I then motioned to him to use the heel of his fist. That worked. It was a close call when I think back on it.

To add to the discussion, I took a CPR/FA course, and the instructor said that the Good Sam law would protect someone who acted within the scope of their training. It's conceivable that someone could lose a law suit if they were not certified and performed CPR, and it's also conceivable that if you are not trained you could do some damage to someone even with the best intentions. Everyone should consider taking the course if you really want to make a difference when the clock is ticking.

[messenger13]

That's okay... I have a sense of humor... as I hope you do when the inevitable happens and you need to pay for one.So you're saying that every person will inevitably need a lawyer someday?!? :confused: I couldn't disagree with you more. Nine out of ten people should NEVER need a lawyer...but that's not the way you want it, now is it?! Sue everybody! SUE! It's totally freaking ludicrous and WAY outta hand! :(

[JCabranes]

So you're saying that every person will inevitably need a lawyer someday?!? :confused: I couldn't disagree with you more. Nine out of ten people should NEVER need a lawyer...but that's not the way you want it, now is it?! Sue everybody! SUE! It's totally freaking ludicrous and WAY outta hand! :(

Thine village idiot is a good moniker for you. Accused of a crime... better have a lawyer. Getting divorced... better have a lawyer. Have some idiot roll through a stop sign and bust you up... bet you'll see a lawyer. Have assets and a family... better see a lawyer for a will. Buying or starting a business... better see a lawyer. Hey how about IRS problems... maybe a tax lawyer could help. So yes, sooner or later you'll need a lawyer. By the way smart guy... don't ever tell me what I want or don't want. You don't know shit about me.

[Morley]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Nine out of ten people should NEVER need a lawyer(
I"m in agreement with Joe, you shouldn't need a lawyer for your day to day life. Exceptions would be writing a will, possibly closing on a house sale. Now, if you are the type of person that can't stay out of trouble...DUI, grossly breaking the law, like in murder, armed robbery, well then maybe you need one in the family.
As far as "rendering aid" to someone in need, until this country has a universal good samaritan law, you are taking a risk in doing so. Too many people are ready to sue if you sneeze on them and they catch cold and too many lawyers are ready to take their case.
Germany had/has a good samaritan law that says if you say, come across an accident and people are in need of aid you are obligated to give aid, if you are qualified (first aid, CPR, etc). If you do so and they die, have perminant injuries or the like, you can not be held responsible because you were being a good samaritan. When this country adopts such a law you'll probably find a lot less people reluctant to render aid to those in need.

[munson]

Thine village idiot is a good moniker for you. Accused of a crime... better have a lawyer. Getting divorced... better have a lawyer. Have some idiot roll through a stop sign and bust you up... bet you'll see a lawyer. Have assets and a family... better see a lawyer for a will. Buying or starting a business... better see a lawyer. Hey how about IRS problems... maybe a tax lawyer could help. So yes, sooner or later you'll need a lawyer. By the way smart guy... don't ever tell me what I want or don't want. You don't know shit about me.
John and Joe, please keep it civil.

[JCabranes]

John and Joe, please keep it civil.

Just for the record, I didn't make this personal, Joe did. I responded in kind, which brought me down to his level. I generally don't back down when attacked... it just encourages the a-hole attacking you to do it again. Mature... probably not but hey, that's just me. As an aside, my wife from time to time scolds me when I blow a gasket by asking me how old I am at that particular moment. My general response is to (as a joke so don't you all get your panties in a bunch) hold up both middle fingers and answer 11. Right now... I'm 11. :)

[messenger13]

John and Joe, please keep it civil.I'll do my part.

"For the record" anyone reading through this thread can see who has "made it personal". John did. I simply disagreed with him. John has inferred and/or implied that I'm an idiot, a "smart guy" (derogatorily of course), and now an "a-hole". Yea...he's real innocent. :rolleyes:

But now that we all know that he uses both hands to flip-off his wife, I think we can judge his character accordingly and move on.

I rest.

[George_S]

Very well said, Joe!
He called you an a-hole, and, basically, flipped us all off.

Well now we at least know who's the lawyer that's been giving them all a bad name. ;)

[munson]

I'm not keeping any records, my friends. All of my debts were forgiven some time ago.

[UncleRock]

That's okay... I have a sense of humor... as I hope you do when the inevitable happens and you need to pay for one.
Why would you have to pay for a sence of Humor? :eek: you either got one or you don't? :eek:
Rock

[messenger13]

Why would you have to pay for a sence of Humor? :eek: you either got one or you don't? :eek:
RockJeez Rock...cut it out! Now he's gonna take that all personal like and start flippin' his wife off again! :rotf:

[JCabranes]

So you're saying that every person will inevitably need a lawyer someday?!? :confused: I couldn't disagree with you more. Nine out of ten people should NEVER need a lawyer...but that's not the way you want it, now is it?! Sue everybody! SUE! It's totally freaking ludicrous and WAY outta hand! :(

Yeah you're real innocent. I'll leave it at that.

[midwilshire]

You don't know shit about me.


Arebalo...

[JCabranes]

As for the rest of you... if you want to be considered flipped off be my guest. BTW, as I posted but you ignored for your purposes the 11 is a running joke that my wife and I have, she doesn't take is as disrespect she takes is in the spirit that it is intended... me making fun of myself. But even if I did flip off my wife... that's none of your business.

This started out as a thread about coming to the aid of others... you a-holes are using it as an opportunity to bash lawyers in general and me in particular. I don't mind lawyer jokes... I've been known to tell a few. I just don't get mean spirited about it.

Lastly, it always amazes me how gutsy people get talking trash behind the safety of their keyboard saying shit that you would never say to the other person's face because you know damn well you'd be swallowing teeth if you did. If any of you feel the need to continue this conversation look for me at the MOA Rally, I'll be there somewhere near the Wisconsin BMW Motorcycle Club area and we can see if you have the cojones to give me this crap to my face.

[JCabranes]

Arebalo...

You don't know shit about what happened with Arebalo so don't pretend you do. You've either read the decision, which btw, did not find me ineffective, or have read the public defender's brief which is pushing his client's version of the alleged facts which as I suspect you know is a lawyers job. Bottom line... I don't have to justify anything to any of you... so go pound sand.

[Woolly]

Arebalo...

Interesting reading . . .


http://www.wisbar.org/res/capp/z1999/99-2120.htm

[SilverBuffalo]

As for the rest of you... if you want to be considered flipped off be my guest.

Lastly, it always amazes me how gutsy people get talking trash behind the safety of their keyboard saying shit that you would never say to the other person's face because you know damn well you'd be swallowing teeth if you did. If any of you feel the need to continue this conversation look for me at the MOA Rally, I'll be there somewhere near the Wisconsin BMW Motorcycle Club area and we can see if you have the cojones to give me this crap to my face.
All of this from somebody who doesn't even have the guts to show his face

[jgburns]

to dislodge some teeth over words, it'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Could it be that lawyers would be in line to "settle the score" :eek:
If I decide to hire an attorney, I'd like to know if a quick temper helps or hurts the case. Before you answer that, grab some popcorn, sit back, relax and watch this http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0305224/Ss/0305224/C116-19A.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0305224
Lastly, it always amazes me how gutsy people get talking trash behind the safety of their keyboard saying shit that you would never say to the other person's face because you know damn well you'd be swallowing teeth if you did. If any of you feel the need to continue this conversation look for me at the MOA Rally, I'll be there somewhere near the Wisconsin BMW Motorcycle Club area and we can see if you have the cojones to give me this crap to my face.

[JCabranes]

I do have a quick temper... its a fault of mine that I've worked on for over 20 years. I've gotten better over the years but when someone comes at you out of the blue for no good reason I'm not generally one to retreat or let it go by without comment/ In court when you're in battle it isn't personal... its business. There have been lawyers that had gotten into fistfights at depositions and outside of court but IMO there is no case worth clocking someone over. That's not to say that some battles don't get heated... its just generally they don't get to the point were you want to physically injure someone.

But lets recap the last 24 hours. I posted on a thread about CPR where I I'D myself as a lawyer. Someone makes a lawyer joke which I respond to in what I thought was a fairly non-confrontational way. I then have Joe launch into his attack. In short orer I'm accused of disrespect to my wife and professional incompetence. So yeah... I am taking this personally and if someone has the balls to say this to my face we'll see how things turn out. BTW Silver Buffalo bottom of page 5... http://www.wiscbmwclub.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=47&Itemid=28

[George_S]

John,
You remind me of this advice...

When one finds oneself in a hole, it's best advised to stop digging...

[Morley]

I've rear and re-read Joe's response and still fail to see where it was a "personal attack". At the risk of inciting a riot So you're saying that every person will inevitably need a lawyer someday?!? I couldn't disagree with you more. Nine out of ten people should NEVER need a lawyer...but that's not the way you want it, now is it?! Sue everybody! SUE! It's totally freaking ludicrous and WAY outta hand! I believe he is referring to the way Americans have become "sue happy". Everyone is always talking about how they are "going to get their lawyer" for any and every little thing. Got fat from eating nothing but fast food? SUE! Burned yourself on hot coffee? SUE! In a crowd of people at Wallyworld when the PS3 goes on sale and got trampled? SUE!
I think people and theiir lawyers should be punished for bringing frivolous lawsuits into an already overtaxed court system.

[Woolly]

In short orer I'm accused of disrespect to my wife and professional incompetence.


http://www.wisspd.org/html/appellate/briefbank/briefs/992120.pdf

[JCabranes]

I've rear and re-read Joe's response and still fail to see where it was a "personal attack". At the risk of inciting a riot I believe he is referring to the way Americans have become "sue happy". Everyone is always talking about how they are "going to get their lawyer" for any and every little thing. Got fat from eating nothing but fast food? SUE! Burned yourself on hot coffee? SUE! In a crowd of people at Wallyworld when the PS3 goes on sale and got trampled? SUE!
I think people and theiir lawyers should be punished for bringing frivolous lawsuits into an already overtaxed court system.

I know what he was referring to... that didn't bother me at all. In some cases I even agree. What pisses me off was the comment something to the effect of "but that's what you want" or words to that effect. That wasn't directed at the world or legal system in general... the use of the word you directed that comment at me... a person who he doesn't know and doesn't know how that person thinks. Basically he decided to smear me with his hatred for the profession and the worst traits of the worst shysters out there. I don't have to take that... you want to have a rational conversation about the abuses of the legal system, great lets do it but don't make it personal.

[hawg]

Hey, John!

Nice newsletter! Must be a great club to be in...

Actooly, this board is a great club to be in too.... :thumb:

You hang in with us and we'll all get to know each other better...you know, kinda like the opening words on the club's newletter! Unity, sociability and good fellowship...

Ride safe! :D

[JCabranes]

http://www.wisspd.org/html/appellate/briefbank/briefs/992120.pdf

You're behind the times... its been posted. FYI, he got a new trial "In the Interest of Justice" which is different from "Ineffective Assistance of Counsel". I'm not going into the details of that case because it doesn't matter, you've already made up your minds. I'll just point out that it is the lawyer's job to plead his client's case as forcefully as possible. Frankly after 11 years of practice, some 3500 criminal cases of which there have been somewhere around 50 trials, if that's the best you can do then I'm not really worried.

Also consider this... there are no appellate decisions when you win.

[JCabranes]

Hey, John!

Nice newsletter! Must be a great club to be in...

Actooly, this board is a great club to be in too.... :thumb:

You hang in with us and we'll all get to know each other better...you know, kinda like the opening words on the club's newletter! Unity, sociability and good fellowship...

Ride safe! :D

Appreciate the kind words. For the most part I've enjoyed my time on the board. Come up to the MOA and I'll buy you a beer ... or two.