What they teach our children and what they don't

[zippy_gg]

Yesterday was Martin Luther King day and I had the pleasure of spending it with my daughters (10 y.o. going on 30).:)
One of them mentioned that MLK was 39 when he died.
I then asked them both if they knew how old Jesus was when he died.
All I got was blank stares... They simply had no idea.
I found it disturbing, regardless of what position the school district may have on religion, as this should be very basic knowledge!!!:(
I also felt that I had failed them as a parent, and that relying on public schools was a big mistake as it would never expose my children to a solid general education.

[messenger13]

Sorry Gilles...separation of Church and State and all that silliness. IMO, any information about Jesus needs to come from Dad, Mom, and the local church. It's really quite that simple.

Frankly, I'd almost rather the public schools teach my kids nothing about God, than screw up the facts. They can't even get current American History right. And what's this I hear about Pluto not being a planet anymore?! :confused: See what I mean? ;)

[zippy_gg]

Sorry Gilles...separation of Church and State and all that silliness. IMO, any information about Jesus needs to come from Dad, Mom, and the local church. It's really quite that simple.

Frankly, I'd almost rather the public schools teach my kids nothing about God, than screw up the facts. They can't even get current American History right. And what's this I hear about Pluto not being a planet anymore?! :confused: See what I mean? ;)I already knew that!:rotf: http://disney.go.com/vault/archives/characterstandard/images/pluto_portrait.jpg

[ldrider]

Sorry Gilles...separation of Church and State and all that silliness. IMO, any information about Jesus needs to come from Dad, Mom, and the local church. It's really quite that simple.

Frankly, I'd almost rather the public schools teach my kids nothing about God, than screw up the facts. They can't even get current American History right. And what's this I hear about Pluto not being a planet anymore?! :confused: See what I mean? ;)


yea, but he's still history, and made quite a big difference in the way things went. dark-ages, crusades, founding of America..etc. It might be a good idea to mention him at least in passing. "There was this guy about 2000 years ago that caused quite a bit of stir in the world since his passing".

Just saying...

[zippy_gg]

And his influence is still strong after 2000 years, long after that of kings and rulers has been forgotten, and in spite of political correctness and no-guts school systems.

[messenger13]

But where does teaching about the historical man who was Jesus of Nazareth, and Jesus Christ the King of kings and the Lords of lords begin and end? These teachings are best left to the professionals. :)

[dlbushey]

Kind of a sensitive subject here, isn't it? Never argue about religion or politics.

[messenger13]

Kind of a sensitive subject here, isn't it? Never argue about religion or politics.Subjects aren't sensitive, people are. :)

[jgburns]

... on matters of the heart and faith. My 7 year old daughter goes to a Christian school. Even they warp some things IMO.

I'm disturbed tsome facts about MLK and the government's efforts to shut him down are omitted, and how leaders of his time saw him as a threat. ... can't have people dreaming for a better future.

[Ted Shred]

Sorry Gilles...separation of Church and State and all that silliness. IMO, any information about Jesus needs to come from Dad, Mom, and the local church. It's really quite that simple.

Frankly, I'd almost rather the public schools teach my kids nothing about God, than screw up the facts. They can't even get current American History right. And what's this I hear about Pluto not being a planet anymore?! :confused: See what I mean? ;)

I couldn't agree with you more Joe. If you want your kids to learn about Christ, Sunday school is the best place. I can only imagine how badly the public schools would screw up that leason:mad:

[Ted Shred]

Kind of a sensitive subject here, isn't it? Never argue about religion or politics.

No arguments here...just a friendly discussion:)

[pkpr1998]

It seems that more people get the day off on MLK day than on Good Friday!

I agree with Joe, the parents should be the ones to disciple their own children.

[UncleRock]

Friday night bones and I were discussing his boys schooling (little Tim is 7)
The kid goes to one of the best school systems in our state and learns very little.
I know some people that home school their kids, and you can teach them, the basic requirements to pass in under 2 hrs a day.
This is not new, after our talk, I took Bones a copy of "Escape From The City" one of the chapter deals with the same problem, in the 20's :eek: .
I would have to take issue with the below statement
"If you want your kids to learn about Christ, Sunday school is the best place."
If you believe that Jesus is your God and you rely on someone else to teach it to your family. I would question your dedication as a parent and as a christian. I mean if you can't tell it to your own offspring, how much influence does this god really have in your life :sleep: ??
Rock

[dlbushey]

I would have to take issue with the below statement
"If you want your kids to learn about Christ, Sunday school is the best place."
If you believe that Jesus is your God and you rely on someone else to teach it to your family. I would question your dedication as a parent and as a christian. I mean if you can't tell it to your own offspring, how much influence does this god really have in your life :sleep: ??
Rock

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement! As a parent, it’s your obligation to provide your children with the religious education of your choice.

With no disrespect to our friends in other countries, IMHO this all boils down to the Law Of The Land.

There’s nothing wrong with religion being taught in your home or your private school. That’s your personal choice (and obligation.) The problem that I have is that we all belong to a club called the United States. As members, we pay dues (called taxes) to support public government run schools. Those schools need to be run according to the club handbook (The United States Constitution.) The Constitution says that our club steers clear of religion. That’s the deal we made. If we pay for it with taxes, it can’t have religion in it. That’s in the pesky bylaws. Don’t forget that there are Atheists, Buddhists and others that don’t buy the Christian-Muslim-Jewish god of Abraham and they might want their tax money to teach real science. So as long as we’re all paying…no religion in school. And no motorcycle riding in church.

The Constitution guarantees ME freedom from whatever faith you practice while promising that YOU can keep it…and vice-versa. If I’ve offended any Christians…Forgive me.

[omurphy]

and now thanks to dan brown's novel and the movie mostly "the da vincci code" children will believe that Christ was married and had a child. how interesting. omurphy

[rixchard]

It may seem that way but a lot of companies give you a choice between the two. Plus, there is nothing to stop you from taking a personal day off to celebrate the very personal relationship that defines your faith, but there is really no reason to involve non Christians in your celebration and have them take the day off as well

[BillyOmaha]

Yesterday was Martin Luther King day and I had the pleasure of spending it with my daughters (10 y.o. going on 30).:)
One of them mentioned that MLK was 39 when he died.
I then asked them both if they knew how old Jesus was when he died.
All I got was blank stares... They simply had no idea.
I found it disturbing, regardless of what position the school district may have on religion, as this should be very basic knowledge!!!:(
I also felt that I had failed them as a parent, and that relying on public schools was a big mistake as it would never expose my children to a solid general education.Howdy Gilles,

From the tenor of your comment I can tell you're venting a bit. I agree with you that schools, especially public schools, neglect a lot of important information in educating children. So, in essence, I believe I agree with your point.

Regarding the example you give, I think you're reading a bit more into this than is there. Agreed, they were not told what age Jesus died at. I was told, in Catholic school that Jesus was 33 when He was crucified. Now, as an adult and doing research on the subject, it is clear that the exact age is not exactly known, but the early to middle thirties is probable.

I would also argue that Jesus' age at death does not have an impact on His message. Meaning that relative to the nearly 2,000 years since His death, whether He was 33, or 53 is not significant.

In the case of MLK, JFK and RFK as well, they were contemporaries of our current history. Their life and death at young ages within that period MAY have had a profound effect on our lives today, i.e. imagine MLK being a spokesman in place of Jesse Jackson or, more profoundly, Al Sharpton.

.

[KYchris02]

so how old was Jesus when he died?

[rixchard]

I believe Hendrix was 27 when he died

Oh wait you meant Jesus, not God. :)

[UncleRock]

so how old was Jesus when he died?
I believe the same age as Alexander The Great
Rock

[BillyOmaha]

I believe the same age as Alexander The Great
RockRock, whatever where you thinking, using a gay warrior as a reference point for Jesus' age :stir:.

You, my friend, are a shit disturber! ;)

[RaffyK]

humm...didn't Bruce Lee die when he was 33?

[UncleRock]

Rock, whatever where you thinking, using a gay warrior as a reference point for Jesus' age :stir:.

You, my friend, are a shit disturber! ;)
Just a couple facts that I was not aware of.
1.That Alexander was a gay warrior
2. That you were a historian of gay facts :histerica
Rock
Shit disturber is that another gay plug? :dance: :dance:

[Morley]

Shit disturber is that another gay plug? :dance: :dance:
Depends on what the gay is using for the "plug".

[BillyOmaha]

Just a couple facts that I was not aware of.
1.That Alexander was a gay warrior
2. That you were a historian of gay facts :histerica
Rock
Shit disturber is that another gay plug? :dance: :dance:Of course! :rolleyes:

Funny you should mention historical "gay facts". I was speculating that since you were born during the pinnacle of Rock Hudson's popularity, it's entirely possible you could be named after him.
How's that for :stir: ?

Yours truly,
Bill, Prof of gay history

:dance:Oh, yeah, who's bad?

.

[zippy_gg]

Wow! How a post about the age of Christ ever derailed so far from its original subject will always be a mystery!!! :confused:

Last night I went to our monthly church men's group potluck and I brought up the very subject of this thread. One of the attending members is one of the Sunday school teachers and he had a good chuckle when he realized that the age of Christ had never been brought up in class. He promised to address it.
The consensus during last night conversation was pretty much the same as on this forum (with a few exceptions of course!:rolleyes: ). Parents have the responsibility to make sure their children get the proper education, religious AND other. This may be at home, Sunday church, Public or private schools, in discussions such as peer group meetings, or most likely a combination of all the above. While I am not fanatical about religion, it was my faith that helped me in times of crisis, and I want my children to have that option, but with a better education that I received myself.

[BillyOmaha]

Like herding cats, isn't it? Meow ;)

Say, how old was Jesus at the time of His death anyway?

.

[patrick2000]

Like herding cats, isn't it? Meow ;)

Say, how old was Jesus at the time of His death anyway?

.


Bill,

You are reducing the fun factor in this thread by bringing it back on track. I find it more entertaining when things spin out of control and become completely illogical. This thread was maturing nicely until you posted this.

[zippy_gg]

Like herding cats, isn't it? Meow ;)

Say, how old was Jesus at the time of His death anyway?

.
Scholars say 33. That is also what I was taught as a child. But your milage may vary...

[Daman858]

If you want to have your kids learn about Jesus, just do what we did...pulled them out of the government propaganda school and sent them to a private faith based school.

It never ceases to amaze me that we all complain about the pubic schools but we keep electing the politicians that control the money, appoint the school boards or superintendents, the same old hacks that cow-tow to the teachers unions and then we wonder why Johnny don't know jack about nothin'!

My kids read one hour each day...anything, newpapers, comic books, whatever..... but we made 'em READ or it was their butts!

And don't make fun of people different than yourselves. Just look up what ol' Jesus said was the greatest commandment.

Jesus was 33 or so when he died but was 33 and 3 days when he resurected. And you can look it up!

[UncleRock]

Bill, Prof of gay history

Being from the land of Fruits and Nuts, I can see where that could be a very lucrative posistion! Ol Professor of the fudge packers past? :histerica
If that was my real name maybe, But it ain't, I didn't get that name until very shortly after I started riding motorcycles :p
Rock

[KYchris02]

33? never married? always social with 12 guys?

gay?

that would throw the sunday schoolers and h-phobes for a loop....

[KMC1]

I wonder how it is that in this day and age religion even has as much influence over our politics as it does? In my mind, the fact that religion has caused so many wars and deaths over the eons, coupled with the level of education and most of all, communication we all enjoy today, religion would have become less and less pertinent to our day to day lives. It seems however, that in the last couple decades we have really gone quite a bit backward in that respect. Secular society is the only way a multicultural society (forced or otherwise) can thrive in my opinion, so it's very surprising to me that we as a whole, are not trying to move further away from it (religion as a basis for society), instead of expecting our school system to teach/influence our childrens religious beliefs. Obviously if we are going to teach any religion in schools than we would need to teach all religion, which truthfully may not be a terrible thing as it would help to expose how silly some of our percieved differences really are. And how strikingly against the American way some of the differences in religions are as well for that matter- think women's rights as an example of what I mean.
I would say however, that inferring Christ was gay, while poking fun at the Christian Right for being intolerant is a little ironic given that Muslims have engaged in a terror war around the world and did afterall throw a complete hissy over some caricatures of Mohammed last year. I would say if anyone has shown restraint and tolerance of dissident opinion, the Christians have. And in my opinion, do not deserve having their God or religion blasphemed in such ways.

[hoog62]

It's all fun and games until somebody's God gets blasphemed.

[dlbushey]

It's all fun and games until somebody's God gets blasphemed.
And then it's friggin Hilarious!

[Steve_R]

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement! As a parent, it’s your obligation to provide your children with the religious education of your choice.

With no disrespect to our friends in other countries, IMHO this all boils down to the Law Of The Land.

There’s nothing wrong with religion being taught in your home or your private school. That’s your personal choice (and obligation.) The problem that I have is that we all belong to a club called the United States. As members, we pay dues (called taxes) to support public government run schools. Those schools need to be run according to the club handbook (The United States Constitution.) The Constitution says that our club steers clear of religion. That’s the deal we made. If we pay for it with taxes, it can’t have religion in it. That’s in the pesky bylaws. Don’t forget that there are Atheists, Buddhists and others that don’t buy the Christian-Muslim-Jewish god of Abraham and they might want their tax money to teach real science. So as long as we’re all paying…no religion in school. And no motorcycle riding in church.

The Constitution guarantees ME freedom from whatever faith you practice while promising that YOU can keep it…and vice-versa. If I’ve offended any Christians…Forgive me.I've bolded your comment above. To which the Constitution of United States of Amerca states:

Amendment I: Freedom of speech, religion, press, petition and assembly.

http://www.law.emory.edu/cms/site/clear.gif

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Please show me in this Amendment where it states we will steer clear of religion. It doesn't.

By the way, here is a link (http://www.law.emory.edu/cms/site/index.php?id=3080#7640) to the document itself. If more of us read it instead of letting the media tell you what it says, then we'd all be better off.

[hawg]

I've bolded your comment above. To which the Constitution of United States of Amerca states:

Amendment I: Freedom of speech, religion, press, petition and assembly.

http://www.law.emory.edu/cms/site/clear.gif

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Please show me in this Amendment where it states we will steer clear of religion. It doesn't.

By the way, here is a link (http://www.law.emory.edu/cms/site/index.php?id=3080#7640) to the document itself. If more of us read it instead of letting the media tell you what it says, then we'd all be better off.


Hear, hear! Finally got someone who actually READS the Constitution of the United States... good on ya, Steve!

BTW, only 5% of law school students have ever read that document, so it is no surprise that people misquote the Constitution... :rolleyes:

[Morley]

" . . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner, 256 U.S. 345, 349 (1921) (Holmes, J.). . . . "
SOURCE: Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)

http://candst.tripod.com/toc.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/basicidx.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/quoteidx.htm

Madison's summary of the First Amendment:


Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contary to their conscience, or that one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combined together, and establish a religion to which they would compel others to conform (Annals of Congress, Sat Aug 15th, 1789 pages 730 - 731).