K1200LT & Hannigan SideCar

[Tourdog]

Kinda of a narrow range for info I would guess but nowhere can one find more pertinent info that on this site.

Should I someday "sidecar" my 99 K12LT and hope to also ride it as a 2 wheeler how much is the stability affected by the change in trail with the "steerlite" option? My K12LT has never had any wobble in any time since I've owned it. It has impeccable road manners.

Hunting and fishing requires lottsa load at times and also pulling it up onto my Aluma M/C trailer would be eased by the 3rd wheel. Also, how heavy is the steering at various speeds if I keep the telelever as it is?

Does the K12LT have enough torque to handle a +275 lb car plus maybe a load?

I had originally thought of sidecaring my K11LT but, the K12LT does have that wonderful "Reverse" ability. And, besides, pushing by hand backward a Beemer in front of Woodstock Starbucks would not have the "cache" of that similar event conducted via the "R" already resident in my K12LT. I can just hear the comments from the Milwaukee Iron, "Well, look at that old coot"! :eek:

[STARFIGHTER]

triking added 300 lbs to my LT and plenty of power to handle it......

Never tried a third wheel without steerlite but needs muscle even with it.......

The sidecar can be flown so needs special riding expertise..also wants to yaw on start and stop.....( so I hear)

I think the best solution would be if hannigan made a tri-car for the LT

[Dick]

triking added 300 lbs to my LT and plenty of power to handle it......
I think the best solution would be if hannigan made a tri-car for the LT
They do. Click here (http://www.hannigansidecar.com/) for details.

[bobaltic]

Just a couple of thoughts..Had a Hannigan Astro and Goldwing SE '98, I found that I used the reverse very little, because it was faster to push out of most spots. The bike won't fall over!! and rolls really easily. I would think the same is true for our K12's. I love the Hannigans, great to deal with and really knowledgeable about BMW's (old Canandian dealer if I remember correctly). I had EZS telescopic forks on my Goldwing, but you will definately need something to lighten the steering. Dave Hannigan will be very helpful. Sold my rig almost two years ago to buy a Honda S2000. Miss the heck out of it, but the S2000 is a great replacement. If you're going to do hunting and fishing, I would strongly suggest a GS with a lighter side car attached. You may need higher clearances, because out the mounting subframe. Good info at WWW.sidecar.com. Good luck, Bob

[Dick]

Carl - a friend of mine had Hannigan install their side car to his '99 LT a year or so ago. He has since taken the rig to Alaska and the circle. He is a high mileage rider (stores a BMW K1100 in Heidelberg), as well as riding all over the Continental US. He now winters here in Boerne, from his primary residence in PA; so I got to see the sidecar rig recently when he brought it down. At the suggestion of Hannigan, he installed cage-type tires at the front of the LT - said it made a world of difference in handling and the ride. Earlier this month, I followed him on a spirited Hill Country ride of 50 miles or so, and I'm tellin' ya, he's not gonna hold up anyone on a group ride. He rode that thang down the twisties just as fast as I would ole Toad; and me and ole Toad pick 'em up and put 'em down! I wuz impressed. And as you can guess, he's very, very happy with the rig. In fact, is working on getting it to Europe and riding the Alps and northern Italy on three wheels instead of their normal two wheel ride.

At the moment, he's in NY for an MSF instructor conference and should return to Boerne next week sometime. If you'd like, I'll get him on here and you and he can discuss the pros and cons of the sidecar arrangement that Hannigan is famous for (somethang to do with the suspension fitting). Y'all can start out on a PM and convert to e-mail or phone if desired. Whaddya think?

Best regards.

Kinda of a narrow range for info I would guess but nowhere can one find more pertinent info that on this site.

Should I someday "sidecar" my 99 K12LT and hope to also ride it as a 2 wheeler how much is the stability affected by the change in trail with the "steerlite" option? My K12LT has never had any wobble in any time since I've owned it. It has impeccable road manners.

Hunting and fishing requires lottsa load at times and also pulling it up onto my Aluma M/C trailer would be eased by the 3rd wheel. Also, how heavy is the steering at various speeds if I keep the telelever as it is?

Does the K12LT have enough torque to handle a +275 lb car plus maybe a load?

I had originally thought of sidecaring my K11LT but, the K12LT does have that wonderful "Reverse" ability. And, besides, pushing by hand backward a Beemer in front of Woodstock Starbucks would not have the "cache" of that similar event conducted via the "R" already resident in my K12LT. I can just hear the comments from the Milwaukee Iron, "Well, look at that old coot"! :eek:

[STARFIGHTER]

Well.....I see the tri-car for Goldwing but......not for the LT

[Dick]

Well.....I see the tri-car for Goldwing but......not for the LT
Click on the *Trikes* button at the top of the left column. An LT is pictured above the Harley conversion. And, click on the BMW LT button in that left column and a real purdy LT trike shows up. It's here (http://www.hannigansidecar.com/content/bmw.html).

Ooops - Kings X. I thought the discussion wuz about the sidecar for the LT. You're talking about the *Tri-Car*, which is for the Honda only, apparently. Apologies here.

[Patric]

Hi Carl ,..
« Snip »..Should I someday "sidecar" my 99 K12LT and hope to also ride it as a 2 wheeler how much is the stability affected by the change in trail with the "steerlite" option? My K12LT has never had any wobble in any time since I've owned it. It has impeccable road manners.

Hi Carl , You can put a Hannigan sidecar on you LT and not put the "steerlite" option on . I ran our K1200LT Hannigan 2+2 with out the "steerlite" for a year + .

Dave Hannigan say's not to run an K1200LT that has the steerlite as a solo bike , so I haven't . I do know a guy the tried to run a goldwing on two wheeler that has had the Trail change for sidecar work .... It ended up with him in the ditch , bike smashed up ,and a traffic ticket for not having the thing under control .

«Snip »
Also, how heavy is the steering at various speeds if I keep the telelever as it is?

Well , Before I put the steerlite I thought the front end was going to brake off when I was trying to get it turned in , when pushing it hard . If you are not trying to push it , the stock front end will work . I am usually trying to keep up with some two wheelers that are out there "getting with the program ". So after changing the front end I didn't have to run it nearly as hard in the straight parts to get caught back up with them . They still gap me a little in the turns ( more so on the right turns ) but I'm not too far back . when I turn left I will some times push it until the front tire starts to slide . You can feel it when it brakes louse ( also you can here it ) . ( Before the steerlite I couldn't get the front to slide ). The Hannigan 2+2 is a big car , but if pushed too hard to the right . It will fly on you . Most of the time it is not a problem , but it can be , if'n you don't keep it in check it mighty just bite you .

«Snip»
Does the K12LT have enough torque to handle a +275 lb car plus maybe a load?
No worries Hope this is of help ...Patric ...

[Keith]

You may spend a pile to put a hack on the LT. If you want utility, pick up a used one of these...

http://www.ural.com/

My best Bud just picked up one of these...

http://www.imz-ural.com/raven/


It is a TOTAL blast!

[Tourdog]

StarFighter---- Allan
Moderator----- Dick
bobactic------- Bob
Patric--------- Patric

Allan........... I looked at the web site. Do they commonly do the Lt? Or, was yours a proto-type or "one" off? And, was the builder one of the dealers?
Could you post a photo or so of your rig? Being able to change suspension settings on the fly and "air" suspension in itself must have some ride advantages I would think. Once in some twisties I suspect you can stiffen it up a bit or? TriKing doesn't mention the Beemer so is the price the same as the GL 15/ 1800?

Dick............. Sounds like your friend is well satisfied with his 2+2 Hannigan SC! Hannigan uses a "live axel" and trailing arm suspension in the Trike and the LT SC is soooo good looking! I stopped at Murray, Kentucky about 2 weeks ago and looked at the SC and Trikes and climbed all over them (Darn! It is hard to be in such a wonderful "Candy Store"! It seems perhaps your friend has beefed up the front end and also had the rims cut and welded for "auto" rims. Hannigan's had an HPS (High perf Sidecar) there with these similar mods............ it looked like a Maserati and just about as fast!

Bob............... Astro and it sounds like you were happy with it. It seems for me the SC is more BMW but then, maybe that was for the era of the /5 and earlier. But, then nothing gets the volume transported with such style. I only have a reading knowledge of SC(s) and Trikes and hate to make a rash decision. The Hannigan K12LT trike is good looking from every angle but can't carry much fishing gear or hunting gear. Plus, as you mentioned the GS is always available although I would like to stay with what I have.

Patric.............. Each of your points were right on Patric, as are all the other responders. Hannigan 2+2 and K12LT and is yours ABS-2 and no boost? Do you have 2 seperate pedals there on the right or One? I can't remember but the boosted ABS brakes came in late 2002 somewhere? The decision to leave the SC on full time with the necessary "SteerLite Mod is a hefty consideration! Because of the 2 Beemers I own the K1100LT is no match for the K1200LT. (Ouch! I hope no one from k11og reads this!) I am still digesting all the great info all of you have posted and really appreciate it. Once again this web site steps up to the plate and bats a home run!

Thank You :bmw:

[Lynn_Keen]

Kinda of a narrow range for info I would guess but nowhere can one find more pertinent info that on this site.

Should I someday "sidecar" my 99 K12LT and hope to also ride it as a 2 wheeler how much is the stability affected by the change in trail with the "steerlite" option? My K12LT has never had any wobble in any time since I've owned it. It has impeccable road manners.

Hunting and fishing requires lottsa load at times and also pulling it up onto my Aluma M/C trailer would be eased by the 3rd wheel. Also, how heavy is the steering at various speeds if I keep the telelever as it is?

Does the K12LT have enough torque to handle a +275 lb car plus maybe a load?

I had originally thought of sidecaring my K11LT but, the K12LT does have that wonderful "Reverse" ability. And, besides, pushing by hand backward a Beemer in front of Woodstock Starbucks would not have the "cache" of that similar event conducted via the "R" already resident in my K12LT. I can just hear the comments from the Milwaukee Iron, "Well, look at that old coot"! :eek:
Carl,
Not exactly the same animal but I put about 70,000 miles on a 1990 GW with a Champion Side Car. It was a total blast. My reason for the side hack was the fact that the wife had some medical issues that prevented her from riding pillion. I never changed out the front end on the bike as I used to remove the chair during the week when riding back and forth to work and hook it up on weekends so the wife could ride along. It took about 20 minutes to remove/hook up the side car. Never a big deal. The steering with the stock front end on the GW took some effort for sure but I didn't want to screw up the bike for commuting. It just means you need to slow down a little in the twisties. Folks who did the front end modifications on their wings told me it was like adding power steering. If you do add a side car my suggestion is to purchase what ever type of adjustable suspension they offer. The Champion had a linear actuator installed on the side hack suspension. This enable me, with a touch of a button, to adjust the lean angle of the car and bike to balance it for straight tracking. I could set it up, regardless of road slope or cargo weight to track straight down the road with hands off the bars. The other option I would recommend is a brake on the side car wheel. When braking the weight and momentum of the car will try to turn you to the left. In a panic stop this can be significant. The addition of the brake is a great safety accessory.

[STARFIGHTER]

Hi
They do approx. one LT per week with a one year backlog right now.
Dave hannigan is a real nice guy and loves to experiment, so............
attached:

[Tourdog]

Keith............. Thanks! Am looking at the Ural although David Hough's BMWON test report couple years ago was still neutral at best. If one is a long way up in the woods and the darn thing won't start best be prepared for some quick repairs! It seems they are heavily built but suffer some reliability issues. But, it still is a contender because you can simply walk in and buy one off the floor.

Allan.............. Duh! I misread your posting. Triking became Tri-King a Honda and Voyager builder of motor trikes. I see by your pictures you have a beautiful Hannigan K1200LT.

Lynn.............. I got a chance to play with that Hannigan "Tilt" control on the handle bar. It indeed will tilt the whole machine to the right a huge amount to better enable that right turn helping to keep that wheel down and will go maybe 10 degrees to the left of vertical for left turns. They use a self-contained electro-hydraulic (linear) actuator and it does exactly as you say. Looking at the weight and inertia/momemtum of that 275 lb car I can imagine the need for the SC wheel brake! It seems the early non-boosted brakes would be easier to integrate but unless I misunderstood, not so (Hannigan Salesman viewpoint). But, it could go with an independent brake (adding an outboard right foot pedal). It sounds like you were OK with the existing fork/ and resultant steering effort as long as the up coming turn was respected with a slower speed.

Thanks to all of you and your reasoned responses are much appreciated! :bmw:

[Patric]

Snip »...is yours ABS-2 and no boost? <l>Mine is the boost type ABS .
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Snip>>
Do you have 2 seperate pedals there on the right or One? <> I have just the stock brake pedal . The sidecar brake is hooked up to the rear master cyl.
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Snip>>
I can't remember but the boosted ABS brakes came in late 2002 somewhere? <> I think all 2002's have boosted ABS brakes .
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Snip>>
The decision to leave the SC on full time with the necessary "SteerLite Mod is a hefty consideration! Because of the 2 Beemers I own the K1100LT is no match for the K1200LT. (Ouch! I hope no one from k11og reads this!) I am still digesting all the great info all of you have posted and really appreciate it. Once again this web site steps up to the plate and bats a home run!
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Well , I have had a sidecar bike for the last 20 years , with all the modifications done to it to make it handle . I wouldn't be with out one . But I usually have at least one other bike to ride solo .

Then ...you could put a car on your K1100LT , then put Leading Link front end on it . The K1100 will pull a car OK . And if'n you get a LL on it , it will handle good . I know 2 guys up here that have there K1xxx/LT/RT set up that way , and they do OK .

When / If you do this , are you planing on doing it your self OR ? If you get a Hannigan , I would have them put it on . If you get a different sidecar or a used one . There are some places you can get a sub-frame from out there . And LL also .
http://www.dauntlessmotors.com/ was a lot of Mount sets ,
http://www.dauntlessmotors.com/Mountinghardware/bmw_mounts.htm#BMW%20K100%20Mount%20Set

Also LL http://www.dauntlessmotors.com/leading_link.htm

Or there are a few guys out there that can build a rig for you . There is my buddy Gary Haynes at http://www.hackd.com/sidecarmagicshoppe.html for one . There are more out there , and they are probably good at it . I know Gary does good work . I hope this is of help ...patric ...

[swamprat]

Tourdog,

I have had my 02 LTE with Hannigan for about a year, this is a stock hannigan set up, hydraulic tilt (telelever). I do the majority of riding without the car on it. It takes about 20 - 30 minutes to get the silver cobra (sons name for her) rigged to ride with the family. It has taken me 15 minutes to drop the car, 1hour and 45min the first time. The handling is somewhat cumbersome going from a two wheel delight to the family cruiser, it takes a few miles to regain my car feeling. When I drop the car she has not wobbled once, the only issue I have had is the cooling system not kicking on in traffic. The handling is scary for the first ride - just must remember if you apply the front brake first it grabs the mille second before the rear and you are going to pull left (hard) if you apply the rear then front she just pulls left, on take off the bike will lead you right - I learned this the hard way by almost going between the axles of a JB HUNT rig, never quite look at those yellow trucks the same. Someone on this site said that inertia of the car can be a deadly thing. If you do get a side car remember the brakes on the car are not as good as the ones on the bike so the car will push you left if you do not compensate.

I have had my wife and son with a small overnight bag for each, two small coolers, filled, I am a solid 245lbs and we ride ATGATT. handled it no problem.

The handling with a stock set up is ok when you get used to it, if you can pick up a modified LT with car - do it. The only reason I would part with mine is safety concerns with living in the DC metro area - the cages are nuts: eek: and its maximum pucker factor until I get the family out of our local area. I have attached a picture.

[PATTERSON]

You should check out WWW.EZS-USA.COM as well. They do some terrific sidecars for LT's, RT's AND GS's........

[Tourdog]

Patric,
Good info. I figure if my non-boosted ABS-2 was a problem (apparently moreso than the later boosted but integrated brakes) that just keeping the 3rd wheel on it own system (separate) and providing a pedal to co-operate it would be the easier. David Hough did this on his EZS or EML sidecar and his BMW K-1 couple years ago (BMWON mag). Doing the K1100LT solves alot of my reservations although I would guess even a "Unit" Leading Link front end would cost considerable for the K1100LT since those Marzocci cartridge forks are not very strong and would tend to twist alot as the turning gets tougher. Now, Swamprat does drop his Hannigan off for 2 wheeling the K1200LT.

Swamprat (Great moniker!) You offer alot of great info too! Comments about dropping the rig off and about the remount too. And, you do operate without having done the "SteerLite" mod. One just can't find these valuable explanations of how the braking affects the dynamics of a simple slowing up maneuver (darting left or right and why). A 99 K1200LT has non-boosted and non-integrated ABS-2 brakes. The front lever controls only the front brakes and the rear pedal controls only the rear wheel brake so it would mitigate at least a little the affects of the single pedal (rear) on the car. But, I suspect the biggest affect is simply braking something that has its own moment arm with inertia/ momentum actively wrenching the bike into another trajectory! Hello, 18 wheeler! :eek: Glad you survived! This is why we learn to fly the "Heavy Iron" in simulators! I understand what you mean by getting out west of DC........... past Dulles Int'l airport it gets better and better! Your "thumbnail photo" is a KLT 2+2 Hannigan and is a knockout.

Mr Patterson thanks also, You the man from Boeing Country. I am looking over the Dutch info. The Dutch do an increditable subframe leading all the way to the steering stem. Not Dutch but will probably call "Jay" at Dauntless this week as they do subframes for the K100 which might work on the K1100LT. I suspect with way over a 1/4 million miles you have run into David Hough as he hails from the same area?
The additional incite all of you have contributed is well appreciated........... now, I'll try and absorb it all and hopefully apply it. I do know one thing if I build it or get this puppy built, I'll trailor that devil to a large Farm and Fleet parking lot and send out warning NOTAMS to boot :eek: