Retrofitting ASC

[grifscoots]

I was told today at the Ft. Worth IMS that ASC is definitely not retro fitted to models without it due to the CANBUS. Slide on boys!

[messenger13]

Ah!...the plot thickens. :)

Kinda surprised you'd even want that option Grif. Then again, you really haven't said that you do...you just reported what ya heard. Care to comment?

My '06 don't got it and ain't gettin' it even it it was available which it ain't! :D

[grifscoots]

Ah!...the plot thickens. :)

Kinda surprised you'd even want that option Grif. Then again, you really haven't said that you do...you just reported what ya heard. Care to comment?

My '06 don't got it and ain't gettin' it even it it was available which it ain't! :D

You CAN shut it off. Looks like a single Phoenix switch on the left handlebar. I would only use it while entering a corner, during a pouring rain, in the dark, that's soaked in diesel fuel.

[DavidTaylor]

You CAN shut it off. Looks like a single Phoenix switch on the left handlebar. I would only use it while entering a corner, during a pouring rain, in the dark, that's soaked in diesel fuel.

Well, as long as you don't wash the bike you should be able to avoid that scenario. :D

[meese]

Thanks for the info, grif.

Joe, I'm curious. What is your reservation about ACS? I figure it's kinda like ABS - no difference 99 percent of the time, but a possible life saver if you suddenly need it. So I don't really see a downside (except possibly jealousy from those who rushed out to buy an '06 :)).

[messenger13]

Joe, I'm curious. What is your reservation about ACS? I figure it's kinda like ABS - no difference 99 percent of the time, but a possible life saver if you suddenly need it. So I don't really see a downside (except possibly jealousy from those who rushed out to buy an '06 :)).I sold my LT and bought the GT for one reason..."fun factor". And, IMO, ACS takes away from that fun factor. I don't do burnouts on the GT...not a one yet. But I love it when you're coming aggressively out of a tight corner and the rear-end gets a little squirrelly on ya. Now that's FUN! It also requires skill.

I also wish that I could disable my rear ABS when it's dry. Want to have some real fun? Slide the rear tire just a bit coming around a tight curve. Then keep it comin' 'round once you crack the throttle and the rear tire lights up just a wee bit. This takes a lot of practice...and you'd better know the curve. But I was getting pretty good at this on my Ninja in a few spots around my home. MAJOR FUN FACTOR!

I say, "Smoke em if ya got em!". :D

[dshealey]

I was told today at the Ft. Worth IMS that ASC is definitely not retro fitted to models without it due to the CANBUS. Slide on boys!

That really makes no sense to me. The great advantage of Canbus is the fact that all the modules use the Canbus line to communicate with each other, so adding another module on the line is like adding another phone in your home. I deal with similar control bus systems in industry, and that is all Canbus is, a communication protocol, allowing all types of devices to be connected through a single line interface. There is no way that BMW can use Canbus as an excuse to not upgrade to ASC. As long as the needed hardware is retrofittable, the communication bus is already there. I would think that most modules can have their firmwared updated if necessary through the diagnostic system the dealers will have.

[messenger13]

That really makes no sense to me. The great advantage of Canbus is the fact that all the modules use the Canbus line to communicate with each other, so adding another module on the line is like adding another phone in your home.Might a more appropriate analogy be, adding another computer onto one's home network? (Phones are too stupid when comparing to CANbus technology. Unless you're talking about the digital kind that I have in my house. Then again, I'm a phone guy.) I would think adding ASC would be plug-n-play for post-'06 GTs. At least, from the CANbus side. Hardware is always the other issue.

[meese]

I say, "Smoke em if ya got em!". :DThat's what track days are for. :D What you're describing is a pretty advanced riding technique. While I'm all for learning advanced skills which can help one escape from questionable situations, I think I'd rather keep both wheels spinning at near the same rate, thank you. Besides, ASC can be turned off at any time if you just gotta play.

I figure that anything can be retrofitted if you have enough $$ and time. Maybe the hardware costs are significant. Or maybe BMW just wants you to sell that old technology '06 and upgrade to a new and improved '07. :D

[grifscoots]

That really makes no sense to me. The great advantage of Canbus is the fact that all the modules use the Canbus line to communicate with each other, so adding another module on the line is like adding another phone in your home. I deal with similar control bus systems in industry, and that is all Canbus is, a communication protocol, allowing all types of devices to be connected through a single line interface. There is no way that BMW can use Canbus as an excuse to not upgrade to ASC. As long as the needed hardware is retrofittable, the communication bus is already there. I would think that most modules can have their firmwared updated if necessary through the diagnostic system the dealers will have.

Well, this guy is purdy in the know, you'd know him if you saw him, David. He talked to El Jeffe and I for about an hour, and while he didn't say any of the stuff he spoke of was confidential, I don't want to compromise him. He promised BMW's support at next year's CCR.:D

[dshealey]

Might a more appropriate analogy be, adding another computer onto one's home network? (Phones are too stupid when comparing to CANbus technology. Unless you're talking about the digital kind that I have in my house. Then again, I'm a phone guy.) I would think adding ASC would be plug-n-play for post-'06 GTs. At least, from the CANbus side. Hardware is always the other issue.
Yes, more appropriate. I was just stating the fact that adding anything to CANBUS is just a plug in thing, as CANBUS is only the communication protocol, and as long as there are plug in connectors in the harness, and the software is updatable, there is no reason additional items cannot be added. That is the whole reason behind the various BUS protocols (CANBUS is one of many) in the first place.

[ClearwaterBMW]

Well, this guy is purdy in the know, you'd know him if you saw him, David. He talked to El Jeffe and I for about an hour, and while he didn't say any of the stuff he spoke of was confidential, I don't want to compromise him. He promised BMW's support at next year's CCR.:D
well....
IF he's right....
then we'v all been lied to, i guess

i really don't need ASC
YES... it would be nice
but...

i'll have to live without it

i'd rather have the TPM and the XENON

[Randy]

well....
IF he's right....
then we'v all been lied to, i guess

i really don't need ASC
YES... it would be nice
but...

i'll have to live without it

i'd rather have the TPM and the XENONI am not sure we've all been lied to. It is possible some dealers have chosen to make up answers to things they know little about, though that has never happened before. The fact is that there has never been a statement (to my knowledge) from BMW to the dealers that ASC would be an option which could be added after the sale. There certainly has not been any after sales documentation to indicate ASC would be available as a retrofit option. Some, if not all, dealers have been told that the TPM will be available for retrofit for certain models, but there is no hard data to support it. We are all expecting it, but the facts remain fuzzy. I do know that the radio receiver for the TPM will have to be added under the seat and the pressure transmitters will have to be installed in each wheel. It will likely be retrofit-able, but until BMW makes all three parts available we have no idea how to add it. The availability of TPM on wire wheeled GS models has been withdrawn for technical reasons, but some were shipped with it. The RepRom for the GT also shows how to retrofit the xenon headlight, but there is no information in the US parts chain about how to accomplish it (yet).

The ASC has been delayed from the factory, but we do not know why it has been delayed. If it is only software, it is possible the program could be added to any bike with the Teves braking system, but that is only a guess. We also do not know what is involved in ASC - does it only reduce the power to the engine in the case of rear wheel spin, or does it also interact with normal ABS functions. We do know that ASC is a byproduct to the switchover to the Continental-Teves braking system, as it is a Continental development. For some reason BMW has been unable to deploy ASC with the introduction of the new braking system. It is possible, though unlikely the braking controller hardware may be different with ASC. We also do not know if there will be a separate on-off control for the ASC.

There are far too many unknowns for us to even become involved in educated speculation.

The gentleman that Jeff and Grif were speaking with at the motorcycle show is involved with marketing for BMW, but may not know all of the engineering issues involved with ASC.

[®win]

Randy,

About the TPC, it was published by BMW on pricelists in Europe that this would be available for fitting from factory as well as for retrofit. I believe that technically it will be possible to retrofit, but whether BMW will release it for retrofit (and if so, when) is another point.

The same goes for the ASC. When I went to the dealer to trade in my LT, I wanted the i-ABS II with ASC; delivery spring 2007. The option could not yet be ordered through the system, so the dealer contacted BMW NL (the importer). BMW NL told my dealer to go ahead and order + deliver the GT and that the ASC would be retrofitted in spring 2007 as soon as it becomes available. Again here, I think it is technically possible, but if BMW will release it for retrofit is another discussion...


Just my € 0,02

[Randy]

Randy,

About the TPC, it was published by BMW on pricelists in Europe that this would be available for fitting from factory as well as for retrofit. I believe that technically it will be possible to retrofit, but whether BMW will release it for retrofit (and if so, when) is another point.

The same goes for the ASC. When I went to the dealer to trade in my LT, I wanted the i-ABS II with ASC; delivery spring 2007. The option could not yet be ordered through the system, so the dealer contacted BMW NL (the importer). BMW NL told my dealer to go ahead and order + deliver the GT and that the ASC would be retrofitted in spring 2007 as soon as it becomes available. Again here, I think it is technically possible, but if BMW will release it for retrofit is another discussion...


Just my € 0,02I was aware of the TPC (or TPM, RDC or who knows what acronym) retrofit being on the European pricing data, but it was not on the US distribution. There was some pre-sales info that eluded to it, but there was no real published data. On the European data I was sent, there was no suggestion that ASC could be retrofit, only that it was delayed. BMW AG may have told your distribution chain that it could be retrofit, but that was not the fact with BMW Motorrad USA. Several things we know to be true: Each worldwide distributor sets their own rules. What may be offered in Europe may not be in the USA or in Canada.
Even USA and Canada differ in what is available, with Xenon lighting being available in Canada on 2006 models, but not in the USA until 2007.
Dealers as well as 'highly placed' personnel within BMW Motorrad USA say things that may not become true, or do not know about things which may become true in the near future.
There will be plenty of rumors on this site as well as many others which will be attributed to people 'in the know' which may not come from people who actually are ;)

Only time will tell. I do agree that it is likely that ASC could be added to any bike equipped with the Continental-Teves braking system, but unless it is supported through software updates applicable with the dealer's GT1, it is unlikely we would be able to implement it.

[grifscoots]

I shouldn't type first thang in the morning before the brain is awake and I'm cognizant, well, as cognizant as only I can be.

When I said ASC couldn't be retrofitted due to the CANBUS, what I was really trying to say is this: The GT has two "brains". The Moditec, which is engine management and the ZFE, which replaces the fuse box and manages the CANBUS. If you order a a bike without a piece of equipment that needs hardwiring, for instance, the ASC switch, you can't retrofit it as the ZFE doesn't have said wire running from it.

Hope that makes it clear as acne cream on a frog's butt.

[dshealey]

I shouldn't type first thang in the morning before the brain is awake and I'm cognizant, well, as cognizant as only I can be.

When I said ASC couldn't be retrofitted due to the CANBUS, what I was really trying to say is this: The GT has two "brains". The Moditec, which is engine management and the ZFE, which replaces the fuse box and manages the CANBUS. If you order a a bike without a piece of equipment that needs hardwiring, for instance, the ASC switch, you can't retrofit it as the ZFE doesn't have said wire running from it.

Hope that makes it clear as acne cream on a frog's butt.

Well that is certainly a better reason. It is HARDWARE related, not CANBUS.

[grifscoots]

Well that is certainly a better reason. It is HARDWARE related, not CANBUS.

Hardware, software, malware, underwear. One of those.:D

[®win]

Hmmmm, Bummer ...








..... for BMW NL. If that is the case, they will have to replace the entire Canbus wiring on my GT.

[bobcopro]

You know - everyone's focused the traction control stopping rear wheel spin, but it will also stop any meaningful wheelies. The moment that front wheel slows its spin (the moment it's off the ground) those injectors are going to cut out "thinking" that the rear wheel is spinning. Now I know that big wheelies are hard on the steering head bearings, but those long, low power wheelies in second gear are really fun!

[messenger13]

You know - everyone's focused the traction control stopping rear wheel spin, but it will also stop any meaningful wheelies. The moment that front wheel slows its spin (the moment it's off the ground) those injectors are going to cut out "thinking" that the rear wheel is spinning. Now I know that big wheelies are hard on the steering head bearings, but those long, low power wheelies in second gear are really fun!Were we separated at birth?!?!? :) Me likes the way you think!

[®win]

You know - everyone's focused the traction control stopping rear wheel spin, but it will also stop any meaningful wheelies. The moment that front wheel slows its spin (the moment it's off the ground) those injectors are going to cut out "thinking" that the rear wheel is spinning. Now I know that big wheelies are hard on the steering head bearings, but those long, low power wheelies in second gear are really fun!

Well, with ASC that will still be possible due to this:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8441&stc=1

[bobcopro]

BUt will it be like the ABS - I'll have to stop, shut off the bike, hold button while starting, THEN wheelie! Kinda takes the spontonaity out of it.

[®win]

According to the manual:

Turn off ASC: keep button (3) depressed (can also be done while riding). ASC warning lamp starts burning continuously. Release ASC-button within 5 seconds after lamp starts burning. ASC is now turned off.

Turn on ASC: same procedure. Can also be done by switching the bike off and on again.

Extra note on the ASC: in the following special situations the ASC can be switched off automatically:
- during a long wheely
- at a burnout
- bike on centrestand, engine running, in gear or in neutral

[messenger13]

Fellas...as much as I love a good argument, I think this one falls under the "Futile" category. There will be those that like ASC, and those that don't. Those that want it, and those that can actually ride! :rotf:

[®win]

Fellas...as much as I love a good argument, I think this one falls under the "Futile" category. There will be those that like ASC, and those that don't. Those that want it, and those that can actually ride! :rotf:
And in what category do you consider yourself in? ;)

[meese]

If you could actually ride, then you wouldn't be so casual about breaking traction (front, rear, braking, etc.). It's all fun and games until things slip out of control and you end up sliding down the road . . .

Pulling a wheelie on a GT is trivially easy, such that there's no skill involved at all. It's just horsepower, and no different than an 18-year-old squid on a R1 or GSXR. Now wheelie an LT with that pathetic clutch and I'll be impressed. :)

[messenger13]

If you could actually ride, then you wouldn't be so casual about breaking traction (front, rear, braking, etc.). It's all fun and games until things slip out of control and you end up sliding down the road . . .It's the fact that I can ride that allows me to be casual about things that evidentally boggle your mind. But we'll separate the men from the boys next Spring when I come out west. (Since you backed out of riding with me in the southeast this year. http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/violent/nutkick.gif)

[UncleRock]

This takes a lot of practice...and you'd better know the curve. But I was getting pretty good at this on my Ninja in a few spots around my home. MAJOR FUN FACTOR!

I say, "Smoke em if ya got em!". :D
Brake on Throttle out, lighting the fuse in motorcycle terms :cool: fastest way to deal with the bend! :D
Rock

[messenger13]

Brake on Throttle out, lighting the fuse in motorcycle terms :cool: fastest way to deal with the bend! :D
RockNow Rock! We shouldn't be discussing, much less condoning riding techniques that aren't taught by the MSF. :histerica

[®win]

Well, today the ASC was retrofitted. It required a new ECU, a harness (+ some changes to the main harness to be able to connect the cable to the ASC button), a button and software. The dealer loaded v8.0 software.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7971/foto016apk0.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=foto016apk0.jpg)

[K1200GTMarcus]

How much did it cost for parts and fitting ? Thanks

[®win]

I had the luck to be able to order it against a price as fitted from factory. I don't know about prices in the US, but here in the NL the BMS-KP ECU alone will set you back around € 650 (conv = $ 965), then you will need a harness with switch and it will have to be fitted (probably new software loaded as well), which will take a few hours.

[K1200GTMarcus]

:mad: I am being told that you cant retrofit traction on 07 GTs in the UK

Anybody know why? :confused:

Is there any reason why I cant ride the bike to europe and have it fitted there ?

[®win]

:mad: I am being told that you cant retrofit traction on 07 GTs in the UK

Anybody know why? :confused:

Is there any reason why I cant ride the bike to europe and have it fitted there ?

Probably policy of BMW Motorrad UK. For the second question you will have to contact some dealers in different countries.

[Ted Shred]

I was told today at the Ft. Worth IMS that ASC is definitely not retro fitted to models without it due to the CANBUS. Slide on boys!

That is NOT true. We retro-fitted ASC to at least 6 early 2007 GT's that were in our inventory this summer...

[Ted Shred]

I just realized this thread is over a year old:o

[grifscoots]

I just realized this thread is over a year old:o

Is that what that smell is?

[K1200GTMarcus]

Think I might wait until the bike is due for a change and then get a GT or RT
with traction allready fitted ;)

[dshealey]

I just realized this thread is over a year old:o

No matter, it was still very pertinent information that needed to be added for future searchers. As the thread was left last year, only one person in the Netherlands had had it done. Now we know for sure that it CAN be added in the US, you just have to find an enlightened dealer. Late good information is still GOOD information.

[Ted Shred]

No matter, it was still very pertinent information that needed to be added for future searchers. As the thread was left last year, only one person in the Netherlands had had it done. Now we know for sure that it CAN be added in the US, you just have to find an enlightened dealer. Late good information is still GOOD information.

Good point David. Thanks:)

[K1200GTMarcus]

Erwin- Which dealer did you use in Holland ? I may contact them to see if they will do it for me :) Mark

[®win]

Erwin- Which dealer did you use in Holland ? I may contact them to see if they will do it for me :) Mark
You've got a PM.