HID and Canbuss

[sanjaun2]

I bought a Hidonline HID for my 07 GT. It was supposedly made for canbus bikes. It arrived with instructions that stated not to use the "relay" with canbus bikes. Well, It had no relay in the kit anyway so I installed the light with the stock low beam wiring. The first 2 light offs went well. There after I would start the bike and the headlight would shut off and the headlight icon on the computer would come on. I would have to shut her down and restart the bike another 1-4 times for the light to stay on and not be faulted. I emailed my contact (Janet) at hidonline.com and she was quick with a email stating that she got my message and did not know why I was having a problem. She fowarded my email to their tech support dept. That was yesterday and I have not heard from them yet. However I took the bike in today for a cruise control switch problem. I asked the dealer to select the hid option on the computer. He switched that option on and now it works perfectly ever time with no faults. It was raining and cold when I picked up the bike and I have to tell ya, I LOVE this bike! It is so much fun to ride even in bad weather.

[jayjacobson]

I bought a Hidonline HID for my 07 GT. It was supposedly made for canbus bikes. It arrived with instructions that stated not to use the "relay" with canbus bikes. Well, It had no relay in the kit anyway so I installed the light with the stock low beam wiring. The first 2 light offs went well. There after I would start the bike and the headlight would shut off and the headlight icon on the computer would come on. I would have to shut her down and restart the bike another 1-4 times for the light to stay on and not be faulted. I emailed my contact (Janet) at hidonline.com and she was quick with a email stating that she got my message and did not know why I was having a problem. She fowarded my email to their tech support dept. That was yesterday and I have not heard from them yet. However I took the bike in today for a cruise control switch problem. I asked the dealer to select the hid option on the computer. He switched that option on and now it works perfectly ever time with no faults. It was raining and cold when I picked up the bike and I have to tell ya, I LOVE this bike! It is so much fun to ride even in bad weather.
The price is right, also. I wonder what would happen is you used the stock low-beam lead to trip a relay?

Great info!

[tmgs]

The price is right, also. I wonder what would happen is you used the stock low-beam lead to trip a relay?

Great info!

I have been told you will need something to increase the voltage draw (a resistor or something? shoot I forget now), or it will tell the computer the headlight is out since it will not see enough draw from a relay.

[jayjacobson]

I have been told you will need something to increase the voltage draw (a resistor or something? shoot I forget now), or it will tell the computer the headlight is out since it will not see enough draw from a relay.
Yes, a resister would do it. Maybe W/O the resister, there wouldn't be enough voltage to even trip a relay. That would explain why they say NOT to use a relay.

[grifscoots]

You can definitely use the low beam to trip a relay.

Sure am interested in what the light pattern looks like.

[sanjaun2]

A relay would not draw enough power to convince the canbus that the headlight is working so it would fault it out. Wiring the hid directly to the stock wiring is easy and you can easily go back to stock bulb if you had a bulb or ballast failure while on a road trip. I just see no reason to add a relay.
It should not be a problem if you wanted to add a relay to the circuit to control aux lighting.

[RaffyK]

I installed one on Wolfgang, Bill Turner's bike with a resistor. It's working fine. Although, Hid-online.com subsequently sent me another wiring harness to replace the one I installed. Have not done that yet but I know it also has a resistor.

Interesting to know that the GT has the HID option setting via computer manipulation. Wonder if the software is telling the system to look for 35 watts versus 55 watts.

[sanjaun2]

I was hoping you would chime in on this Raffy, They did not give me a harness with a resistor, I am glad now though. The more simple something is the less resistant to failure! My dealer was happy to select the hid function for me for free cause they wanted to play with it and see if it works. They are real good with things like that, They even carry a lot of after market parts. I assume the computer is more tolerant of the sudden in rush of current with the hid selected. I do not think it cares about seeing only 35 watts because once the light was fully powered up it would no longer trip the fault. It would always fault out in the initial second of power up where the current is actually higher than the stock 55 watts.

[simoncharles]

This is the information that Steve from www.XenonDepot.com
gave me:

Hi Simon,

Newer BMW motorcycles are sensitive to the difference in wattage that a HID bulb draws as opposed to what a halogen bulb draws. HIDs operate on 35W whereas halogens operate on 55W. Using an HID kit on these motorcycles requires a slight change to our wiring harness. Essentially, we will use a resistor in our harness to simulate a draw. This way the motorcycle does not know the difference.

Steve

and this is what it looks like
www.xenondepot.com/product.php?product_id=126

Highly recommend this company.

[sanjaun2]

This only applies to canbus bikes, Not all newer BMW's have the canbus system. Your LT does not have canbus. I would not want to install those resistors unless I had to. They would install one per headlight by the way. On canbus bikes, Install HID, Have the bike programmed for hid and your done

[simoncharles]

Thanks Brian.

[sanjaun2]

Simon,
I installed a hid low beam on my 2000 LT without a resistor or relay and had no problems for the 40k miles I used it.

[RainmanEverson]

Good GRIEF! I can't keep up with you guys. The dang Xenon option (which I was told is NOT available in the US <grumble, growl, gripe> lists at $465 clams anyway, which is a lotta cabbage... now I learn from you geniuses its a farkle and a tweak and I'm good to go. Electricity/Electronics and me aren't exactly on the same page, if you know what I mean, so I'd appreciate a leg up. Instead of wasting your time, should I just go to HID-Online and ask them to open my wallet and send me the right parts, or do one o' you cats have part numbers and a pricetag? I don't care where you ride, there's not enough light on a motorcycle in a world of cages. Brother(s), can you tell me what to do?

Thanks a bunch,
Rainman
:bmw:

[sanjaun2]

Rainman,
Go to hidonline.com and email them attention Janet. Include in your email the year and model of your bike and She will email you back with the part numbers. Or you could just order one and put make and model in the comments section. Remind them you are canbus as well. I hate to confuse things.... But I think they may have sent me a standard non canbus hid kit since it had no visable resistor. I have no iron clad proof but my minds logic can't think of a reason why the normal kit wouldn't work on the canbus bikes as long as you have the dealer select the hid option on the computer. I am Guessing the BMW hid does not have a resistor installed. Maybe some one from Europe can clue us in on there hid.I will email Janet and ask her to look into this.

[sanjaun2]

here is the message I sent along with my order which includes the price; and order number.
Amount: $280.00 USD
Transaction ID: 7PV31550SF441242T
Subject: Attention Janet
Note: Hello Janet, Here is the money for a hid for my BMW K1200GT with
canbus. Please ship to

[dwillie]

Good GRIEF! I can't keep up with you guys. The dang Xenon option (which I was told is NOT available in the US <grumble, growl, gripe> lists at $465 clams anyway, which is a lotta cabbage... now I learn from you geniuses its a farkle and a tweak and I'm good to go. Electricity/Electronics and me aren't exactly on the same page, if you know what I mean, so I'd appreciate a leg up. Instead of wasting your time, should I just go to HID-Online and ask them to open my wallet and send me the right parts, or do one o' you cats have part numbers and a pricetag? I don't care where you ride, there's not enough light on a motorcycle in a world of cages. Brother(s), can you tell me what to do?

Thanks a bunch,
Rainman
:bmw:

I'm sure you'll get a fine product and excellent service from HID-Online. I've read here that many have had good luck with their systems. I went another direction and have been very pleased. I used a system from XenonDepot at about half the cost and I got a great product with lots!! of light. XenonDepot is a supporting member of this forum and to me that means they want to be around a while, and will be responsible in their dealings with us. Call them and ask for Steve, I'd bet he'll take the time to give you some information that may help you. don wehr.

[RainmanEverson]

... you folks are grand, and I really appreciate the advice - Rainman :thumb:

[bowlesj]

A relay would not draw enough power to convince the canbus that the headlight is working so it would fault it out. Wiring the hid directly to the stock wiring is easy and you can easily go back to stock bulb if you had a bulb or ballast failure while on a road trip. I just see no reason to add a relay.
It should not be a problem if you wanted to add a relay to the circuit to control aux lighting.

So what happens if you do switch back to a stock bulb on the road? If the computer is set for HID, is the light switched off due to over current condition, not good. And if it doesn't fault, then why does there need to be an HID option? The lower power value, with a wider range, should be the only value shouldn't it?

Did the dealer comment? Just curious. Thanks

[simoncharles]

Apart from the "do I or don´t I" have Canbus, or the "do I or don´t I " install a resistor theme, there are the following factors:

www.xenondepot.com
www.hidonline.com
www.hid-online.com

As far as I can make out, the first two are the same people.

So, the big question is:
Do the newer LT´s have Canbus, and if not, should I install a resistor ?.

This could be a longer thread than the "synthetic oil or not" one.

[meese]

None of the LTs have CanBus so far. That will most likely change when the new generation LT debuts, whenever that may be.

[meese]

So what happens if you do switch back to a stock bulb on the road? If the computer is set for HID . . .Interesting question. FWIW, the only trouble I've had with 100K miles on my HID has been with the relay and fuse holder. The ballast, igniter, and bulb all still work fine.

When I did have a problem, I simply used the high beam and adjusted it way down low. That was enough to get me home or to a place where I could get a new relay.

[simoncharles]

Meese, thanks.

I didn´t really know what a canbus was anyway, but Google came to the rescue.

Then that only leaves the second question. Should we install a resistor if our LT computers do not have the switch option ?.

Opinions please.

[jayjacobson]

This is the information that Steve from www.XenonDepot.com
gave me:

Hi Simon,

Newer BMW motorcycles are sensitive to the difference in wattage that a HID bulb draws as opposed to what a halogen bulb draws. HIDs operate on 35W whereas halogens operate on 55W. Using an HID kit on these motorcycles requires a slight change to our wiring harness. Essentially, we will use a resistor in our harness to simulate a draw. This way the motorcycle does not know the difference.

Steve

and this is what it looks like
www.xenondepot.com/product.php?product_id=126

Highly recommend this company.
....and there you have it. Even an idiot like me can't screw this up!

[jayjacobson]

Good GRIEF! I can't keep up with you guys. The dang Xenon option (which I was told is NOT available in the US <grumble, growl, gripe> lists at $465 clams anyway, which is a lotta cabbage... now I learn from you geniuses its a farkle and a tweak and I'm good to go. Electricity/Electronics and me aren't exactly on the same page, if you know what I mean, so I'd appreciate a leg up. Instead of wasting your time, should I just go to HID-Online and ask them to open my wallet and send me the right parts, or do one o' you cats have part numbers and a pricetag? I don't care where you ride, there's not enough light on a motorcycle in a world of cages. Brother(s), can you tell me what to do?

Thanks a bunch,
Rainman
:bmw:
It would appear that a HID installation W/O a resister may need the computer tweaked at the dealer. I would probably go with a resister installation from xenondepot.com.

BTW, Xenon SHOULD be factory avail option by spring.

[jayjacobson]

Simon,
I installed a hid low beam on my 2000 LT without a resistor or relay and had no problems for the 40k miles I used it.
No need for resister because the current LT uses standard wiring system.

[simoncharles]

Jay,

I don´t know about anybody else, but you´ve got me VERY confused !.

First you point out to me the information I received from Steve saying that I SHOULD install a resistor, then in your next post you THINK I should install one, and then finally, in your last post, you recommend NOT to install one.

OK. After a multitude of e-mails to Steve at www.xenondepot.com, we have both reached the same conclusion that a resistor is NOT needed for the wiring system on current, old and new, LT´s.
The possible reason for confusion is that in this forum, bikes other than LT´s are talked about i.e. GT´s which do have the Canbus wiring.

SO, and Rainman, this may interest you, if Steve and I are not proven wrong, the HID kit to order is this one www.xenondepot.com/product.php?product_id=33 and where is says "option" go for H7.
Here is the wiring diagram www.xenondepot.com/mcman.htm.


I´m ordering mine on Monday !.

May I say that I have NEVER had such a fast response to my questions and queries than I receceived from Steve at Xenon Depot.

[simoncharles]

Rainman, you have a GT ?. Then possibly best to ignore some of the above information.

Brian, you were right, thanks !.

[meese]

Simon, check Randy's Canbus 101 (http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10755) thread at the top of this forum for lots of info on that system.

Basically, there are no fuses. The controller senses the current draw for a particular circuit, and if it's out of design parameters it shuts that circuit down. So if a headlight circuit expecting 55W sees an HID drawing 35W (or a much higher spike as it strikes the initial arc) then it will shut that circuit down. That's what Brian referred to when he said his HID would often fail to ignite properly, but would run fine once it was lit.

And as you've learned, the LT doesn't have CAN bus, so no resistor is needed when adding an HID light.

Now the Integral brakes on the '02 and up LTs do sense the presence of taillight bulbs. If a bulb burns out, then it will flash an ABS warning. Since LED taillight bulbs draw less current than filament bulbs, you need a resistor setup to use them on an LT.

Hope that helps.

[jayjacobson]

Jay,

I don´t know about anybody else, but you´ve got me VERY confused !.

First you point out to me the information I received from Steve saying that I SHOULD install a resistor, then in your next post you THINK I should install one, and then finally, in your last post, you recommend NOT to install one.

OK. After a multitude of e-mails to Steve at www.xenondepot.com, we have both reached the same conclusion that a resistor is NOT needed for the wiring system on current, old and new, LT´s.
The possible reason for confusion is that in this forum, bikes other than LT´s are talked about i.e. GT´s which do have the Canbus wiring.

SO, and Rainman, this may interest you, if Steve and I are not proven wrong, the HID kit to order is this one www.xenondepot.com/product.php?product_id=33 and where is says "option" go for H7.
Here is the wiring diagram www.xenondepot.com/mcman.htm.


I´m ordering mine on Monday !.

May I say that I have NEVER had such a fast response to my questions and queries than I receceived from Steve at Xenon Depot.
And it's OK to be confused. Why I've been that way for years now! GT/ LT / ET ???? xenondepot / hidonline?? It's all so confusing......

[jayjacobson]

....Since LED taillight bulbs draw less current than filament bulbs, you need a resistor setup to use them on an LT.

Hope that helps.
Interesting! If I didn't use a resistor on my vehicle lights with the LED retrofit, they would flash double speed.

[meese]

My wife's car had one side of the turn signals flashing at double speed. I put the 4-way flashers on and walked around the car until I found out which bulb had burnt out. It's a feature, not a bug. :)

That's the same for most cars, but the Integral brakes interpret this data as a bad bulb and therefore flash a warning light.

[simoncharles]

Jay,

Somebody who isn´t confused is Meese !.

Thanks Meese. I can now see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Simon

[meese]

Sometimes the engineer in me sneaks out. :) OK, it usually sneaks out, but fortunately still leaves me able to translate to those with less technical backgrounds.

Glad I could help.

[jayjacobson]

Jay,

Somebody who isn´t confused is Meese !.

Thanks Meese. I can now see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Simon
So did I.....It turned out to be a train!

[jayjacobson]

My wife's car had one side of the turn signals flashing at double speed. I put the 4-way flashers on and walked around the car until I found out which bulb had burnt out. It's a feature, not a bug. :)

That's the same for most cars, but the Integral brakes interpret this data as a bad bulb and therefore flash a warning light.
The LED retrofit bulbs flash at double speed even when they are working properly. They have lower resistance than filament bulbs. A resister fixed the problem.

[jayjacobson]

Interesting question. FWIW, the only trouble I've had with 100K miles on my HID has been with the relay and fuse holder. The ballast, igniter, and bulb all still work fine.

When I did have a problem, I simply used the high beam and adjusted it way down low. That was enough to get me home or to a place where I could get a new relay.
Ken,

Very interesting. I was wondering if anyone has ever had a relay go out. Once, on a critical installation, I used two Bosch 30 amp relays--each being on it's own circuit, but switching in unison. If one relay or circuit failed, the other one would still be active.

[meese]

Actually the relay that failed was after it was removed from my '99 LT and put on my '02 LT many months later. It just wouldn't start up until I replaced the relay. All my other HID problems have been due to faulty blade terminal connections, usually in the fuse holder.

[grifscoots]

All my other HID problems have been due to faulty blade terminal connections, usually in the fuse holder.

Sounds like too much fun chasing electrical HID probs:D

One that drove me to squirrel collection avenue was a hairline crack on a fuse. It was on one of the original RM Racing HID's and the last place I looked.:p The fuse checked out fine with one of those leetle fuse testers and the Fluke, but if you looked at it real close with a magnifying glass, you could see the crack. Vibration and road variations would cause it to lose continuity and the rest of my sanity.

[sanjaun2]

I went out to start the bike Sunday morning and I got the dredded failed headlight icon on the computer. same as before, Started to turn on then canbus shut her off. I will try and figure out a fix after I get done building an ark. Lotsa rain happening here.

[jayjacobson]

Jay,

Somebody who isn´t confused is Meese!....
Simon
But, that doesn't mean he's a bad person!

[XenonDepot]

We are actually working with a member on this forum that is installing our product on his new K1200GT. He believes that there may be a way to install the product without the use of a resistor. I should have a review and some feedback within the next couple of weeks.

Steve