First hand account from the Brazilian mid-air collision

[eljeffe]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/03/america/web.1003road.php

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/10/02/business/03road.xlarge1.jpg

[dshealey]

*i don't know if the FAA regulations have anything to do with altitudes in Brazil, but if so, sounds like the business jet was at the wrong altitude.

If VFR, the FAA regulations are

VFR:
(c) When operating above flight level 290 and --


(1) On a magnetic course of zero degrees through 179 degrees, any flight level, at 4,000-foot intervals, beginning at and including flight level 300 (such as flight level 300, 340, or 380); or (2) On a magnetic course of 180 degrees through 359 degrees, any flight level, at 4,000-foot intervals, beginning at and including flight level 320 (such as flight level 320, 360, or 400).

So any plane flying VFR should not be at flight level 370 (in the US you typically cannot fly VFR above flight level 180)



IFR:

(3) When operating at flight level 290 and above, and --

(i) On a magnetic course of zero degrees through 179 degrees, any flight level, at 4,000-foot intervals, beginning at and including flight level 290 (such as flight level 290, 330, or 370); or (ii) On a magnetic course of 180 degrees through 359 degrees, any flight level, at 4,000-foot intervals, beginning at and including flight level 310 (such as flight level 310, 350, or 390).

The article says the commercial airliner was traveling southeast at 37,000 feet, which would be correct by FAA standards. Of course the business jet could have also been on a zero through 179 degree heading, and the planes collided at an angle.

We fly IFR in the US with almost constant radio contact, so flying in the area they were in is very different. Seems they had little to no radio contact, so were not "hand holding" with ATC as we do here mostly.

[Lzyellodog]

yikes. Some scarey stuff. I have been on at least one plane ride that ended with Fire Trucks and emergency crews scrambling but nothing like that. Chilling is the only word I have.

[sanjaun2]

I hate to see any airplane crash, But I was happy to learn it was not mechanical error. I worked on that 737 and it delivered to the customer on Sept 12th

[hoog62]

More (http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/03/america/web.1003crash.php) on the story.


"Aside from describing the damage to the business jet's wing and tail, investigators have provided few details supporting their theory of a midair crash between the aircraft, both of them new and equipped with systems designed to prevent such a collision.

But Brazilian news reports have offered a range of conflicting theories about the accident's cause, mostly from unidentified sources. Some have speculated pilot error in one or both of the aircraft, while others have suggested a lack of coordination among air traffic controllers. Still others continue to suggest that the commercial airliner, operated by the Brazilian carrier Gol Linhas Aéreas Inteligentes, had been damaged and in midflight lost a part that then fell into the business jet's flight path"

[AlaskaFish]

I hate to see any airplane crash, But I was happy to learn it was not mechanical error. I worked on that 737 and it delivered to the customer on Sept 12th
As an aircraft mechanic for over 30 years myself, now a Safety Inspector, I know exactly what you're talking about there Brian! The last thing any mechanic wants to hear is that an aircraft they were wrenching on has gone down. Especially when fatalities are a result!

John

[Florian]

as a pilot, the last thing you want to see is another plane filling your windshield...at any altitude or attitude!



F

[early1]

--from my read of the article that the EMB 600 pilots never saw a thing.
Makes you wonder from what attitude/angle the 737 was coming.

If, daylight and clear skies 1000mph closing rate, almost head on , you'd think the buis-jet crew stood a better chance of seeing the heavy,dependent on sun position.

I know I'm out of date on hi-perf flying , but shouldn't the TCAS or other newer proximity units have been screaming.

Wonder if the heavy was already out of control and caught the little bird on the way down, or part of it hit them??
Wonder--etc, etc,

Hopefully the black box will be found intact.

[RaffyK]

the black box was found today.

[hschisler]

Obviously fakes, but relevant.

[George_S]

Today's paper had the news that the authorities had confiscated the bizjet pilot's passports and told them they could not leave the country during the investigation. They are not under arrest, just not free to leave. Reports also said that both jets were at 37,000 ft altitude, and that was the proper altitude for the 737, and the bizjet supposedly ignored an order from traffic control to descend to 36,000 ft.

[tmgs]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/03/america/web.1003road.php

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/10/02/business/03road.xlarge1.jpg


Damn that is sad, our prayers go out to the family's of the victims.

Tom

[early1]

Today's paper had the news that the authorities had confiscated the bizjet pilot's passports and told them they could not leave the country during the investigation. They are not under arrest, just not free to leave. Reports also said that both jets were at 37,000 ft altitude, and that was the proper altitude for the 737, and the bizjet supposedly ignored an order from traffic control to descend to 36,000 ft.

---why didn't ATC advise EACH of Traffic and move for separation by BOTH???
ESPECIALLY, if one did not respond!

WHO ME, suspicious of foreign ATC and foreign governments producing AFTER the fact declarations about American citizens.

[George_S]

---why didn't ATC advise EACH of Traffic and move for separation by BOTH???
ESPECIALLY, if one did not respond!

WHO ME, suspicious of foreign ATC and foreign governments producing AFTER the fact declarations about American citizens.

I'm feeling the same way about this. The article seemed to say that the bizjet WAS cleared to fly at 37,000 ft for the first leg of its flight, then told to fly at 36,000. It didn't state that a warning was ever issued. Very unclear when/if an advisory (never said 'warning") was given to the bizjet. Seems to me ATC was asleep at the radar screen to miss this developing event.