BMW Luxury Touring Community - Metzler or Bridgestone.. which is better?

SMGray

Oct 23rd, 2005, 8:06 pm

Big_E

Oct 23rd, 2005, 8:23 pm

I went with bias Metzlers at 44f & 48r on my 05. I have run Metzlers at that pressure on my Venture & Wing with good results. I don't get any wobble & didn't on the other bikes either, but I always expect it. People on the Venture & GL1800 sites complain about the same thing, all bikes will do it sometimes so always expect it.

Dick

Oct 23rd, 2005, 8:31 pm

Steve - welcome. Your question re; Metzeler or Bridgestone? The general rule around here is: for mileage, choose the Metz. For graption, but far less mileage, choose the BT020s. The Metz has a hard compound formula and thus gets added mileage, although some folks feel that the hard compound sacrifices some grip in the wet. The BTs are a softer compound and thus yield fewer miles before the time comes to change tires.

HTH a leetle. Enjoy the ride whichever tire you choose.

petepeterson

Oct 23rd, 2005, 8:39 pm

Which one taste better,chocolate or vanilla??????........Regards Pete

wilbar00c

Oct 23rd, 2005, 9:00 pm

You said;
"It blew me away! Bias-ply tires in this day and age on a motorcycle this big? This doesn't make any sense at all to me".
Think 850 lb. bike and load rating. The Metzler rear tire size for the K12LT is only made in bias-ply reinforced design.

hammick

Oct 23rd, 2005, 9:34 pm

Hello,

I introduced myself a few days ago with a thread about air pressure and was convinced by just about everyone on this site that 42F and 48R was the way to go. When I wrote asking for advice, I was under the impression that I had Metzler radial tires on my bike. I took a good look at them yesterday and found out I had Bridgestone bias-ply tires! It blew me away! Bias-ply tires in this day and age on a motorcycle this big? This doesn't make any sense at all to me.

Anyway, I stopped by the dealer and asked about it. He explained that BMW switched to bias-ply Bridgestones either at the beginning of '05 or sometime in late '04. He didn't know why. Does anyone on this site know why BMW would go from radials to bias-ply tires? Does the 42F and 48R rule still apply with these tires? And for those who are experiencing the notorious "wobble" at 40 45 mph, is that "wobble" with radials or bias-ply tires? And finally, what's better for my '05..... Metzler radials or Bridgestone bias?

Lots of questions, but I know I've come to the right place.

Thanks,
Steve Gray
Canton, MI
I read an old post that mentioned the Bridgestones are just under the specs to be considered radials. Search on the old forums. I know nothing about the technical difference between a radial and bias ply but it did always bug me that my '04 V-max did not have radials and in fact nobody made radials in the size of the rear stock rim. A lot of V-max owners changed out the rims to allow radials as the general consensus was that it made a huge handling difference. I haven't heard of people making the same claim about the LT (possibly because the stock tires on the '05 are about as close to radials as you can get with out actually having radials).

I am sure some knowledgeable '05 LT owners will chime in to clear all this up.

Hopalong

Oct 24th, 2005, 1:19 am

Personal choice-- the Metzler tires. Better handling, and better yet, a lot more mileage. Ran thru first set of original B's in 5,000 miles. Metzler 880s get me 16-18K. Have had three sets of M's. Just make sure your tire pressure is maintained. I run 42 front and 48 back. Just my 25 cents worth!

rglassma

Oct 24th, 2005, 3:59 am

For my money, safety has been and always will be top priority. I was not satisfied with my first set of bridgestones (radials) that were stock on my '03 because of scalloping. But, then again, the pressure that BMW recommended was wrong and they made good on it. On this set, I am doing alot better. But I have piece of mind knowing that these are the stickiest. Living in Colorado and being a year round driver, I believe that stickiness in all kinds of road conditions (and temperatures) is paramount. Question to self: Self, would I rather have a little bit less mileage and tires that hug the road better, or more mileage and tires that don't quite hug as well. The answer is a no brainer !!!! After all, we are on motorcycles, right???? Two wheels, higher risk, etc. Great brakes call for tires that hug the road.

That is my thinking.. I'll stick with the bridgestones myself. Again, safety.. All it takes is one bad slip and.....

Just my humble opinion for what it is worth

azizmm

Oct 24th, 2005, 4:28 am

Hello,

I introduced myself a few days ago with a thread about air pressure and was convinced by just about everyone on this site that 42F and 48R was the way to go. When I wrote asking for advice, I was under the impression that I had Metzler radial tires on my bike. I took a good look at them yesterday and found out I had Bridgestone bias-ply tires! It blew me away! Bias-ply tires in this day and age on a motorcycle this big? This doesn't make any sense at all to me.

Anyway, I stopped by the dealer and asked about it. He explained that BMW switched to bias-ply Bridgestones either at the beginning of '05 or sometime in late '04. He didn't know why. Does anyone on this site know why BMW would go from radials to bias-ply tires? Does the 42F and 48R rule still apply with these tires? And for those who are experiencing the notorious "wobble" at 40 45 mph, is that "wobble" with radials or bias-ply tires? And finally, what's better for my '05..... Metzler radials or Bridgestone bias?

Lots of questions, but I know I've come to the right place.

Thanks,
Steve Gray
Canton, MI
I have the Bridgestones on 2005 LT & after 8.5K's the front one looks pretty scary!!
I am going to switch to the Metzlers. lets see how they handle & last.
PS. did anyone experience the front tire wearing away on one side of it more than the other??

Robin

Oct 24th, 2005, 7:17 am

Are you guys saying that the air pressure in the manual (36F and 42R) is wrong? I've not put 1500 miles on my LT since I got it, and I've been running the pressure in the '02 manual. I've got the Marathons on the bike, btw. If I'm running a low pressure I sure would like to know.

Thanks,
Robin

DaveDragon

Oct 24th, 2005, 7:19 am

Bridgestones for me :)

BLBantz

Oct 24th, 2005, 8:10 am

Most here running the Metz 880s run 42F/48R to help avoid feathering, for better grip and for better mileage. Thats what I run and I have never suffered from slippage, even in the rain. I had 16500 miles on my first set when I changed them. Probably could have gone another 2K but had a big trip coming up and changed them.

dshealey

Oct 24th, 2005, 9:44 am

Bridgestone BT020 Radials for me! As if everyone here does not already know that. :D :D :D

If I were to buy a used LT, and it had 880s on it, that is the first thing I would change, within a week! If a new bike at a dealer, the deal would be for the 880s to be replaced with 020s before I picked it up.

I rode year round, regardless of weather, and would not go through another set of 880s. They scared me too many times.

ATFLT

Oct 24th, 2005, 9:45 am

I am running 42 in the front and 50 in the back of my Marathons. That is the max stated on the side of the tires. I only have about 7500 miles on them at the moment but they look to be good for another 7500-hopefully more.

kamike

Oct 24th, 2005, 9:58 am

My experience is that the stock Metzeler tires did not offer as much traction on wet pavement and seemed less compliant on the road than what I expected or wanted.

I put on a set of BT020's this summer and that was 5,500 miles ago. I did like the handling and traction, but the front tire has cupped badly and is beginning to have some wierd handling characteristics. The rear is still in excellent condition.

I plan to replace the front with an Avon. The Avon/Bridgestone combination seems to have worked for others.

Don't worry about bias ply vs. radial. Use what provides the best service for you, and you can only figure that out, personally, by riding. My personal preference is to replace tires more often because I value traction and safety more than high mileage. Good luck.

Wolfgang

Oct 24th, 2005, 11:19 am

In my opinion... neither is a good tire for the LT. In fact I consider the lack of a well suited tire one of the major shortcommings of the LT (besides the rear drive)

Metzler: Handles ok. Lasts a long time. Does not seem to have any out of round or belt seperation issues. As soon as it gets wet outside the ride gets real exciting (i.e. unsafe). I retired mine after about 5k. Thought I would get used to them, but everytime it rained it got too exciting for me...

Bridgestone: Handles great, wet roads: no problem. Several front tires cupped out after 5k. regardless off pressure. The only way to minimize that is very sparing use of the front brake, but how much fun is that?
Rear tires: I had three of them severly seperate after about 6k. I consider that a safety issue.

Currently I have a Bridgestone at front 5k on it, maybe 2k more to go. Rear, I have an Avon with about 4K, still looks great and the combination handles well, even in the rain

Sooner or later there should be a good allround tire available. If there already is, I love to hear about it.

Wolfgang

strsout

Oct 24th, 2005, 11:36 am

Steve,
on the question, I would go for the BT020.
I had a recent experience with Metz on my trip to Alaska (http://www.viajareua.com/alaskaCanada.html) and it wasn't good. If you want read detailed comments see the first page of my site, at the bottom.
At the end of my trip I was under the impression that I had to replace my shocks, but was only the tires. I put back a set of BT020 I had with 3000 miles on it already, and then I realized that I don't need new shocks yet...

jkersh1

Oct 24th, 2005, 11:38 am

I've got over 50k miles on my LT with Metz's. Being retired, none of my smileage is commuting - virtually all is touring or sport/touring. I've never felt any unease with the 880's in the wet or mud including Alaska Highway construction and winter travel on dirt roads in Northern Arizona. Now, am I blasting down those roads like a flat tracker? Hell no. Will you pass me in the rain? Be my guest. But I'm not riding that slow either. A couple of weeks ago I travelled from Elk City, OK to Flagstaff in a day of fog, rain and hail; averaged over 70 including stops; wasn't passed by any other two wheelers. Didn't see any other LT's, only HD's and Wings.

Some folks prefer the perceived safety of better grip in the wet. I don't like riding on a tire with less than, say, 20% tread left. If you're satisfied getting 8K out of a tire, great. To me knowing that I don't have to start looking to replace a worn out tire as soon as I mount one is priceless. And safer than riding on a tire in its last phase of wear.

JCarver

Oct 24th, 2005, 11:08 pm

I've run Bridgestone, Dunlops, Avons, and Metzler on several different models of bikes. My choice for all is Metzler. Why, better mileage with better than average handling. I got tired of changing tires at least once a year, sometimes twice a year.

buffalo

Oct 25th, 2005, 4:56 am

Well. I did not try the Bridgestone yet. But my point of view is that the Metzeller are really bad when it's raining... I used to have Michelin tires and I felt so confident with the LT even when it was wet. Unfortunately they were out of stock when I had to change both tires. Now I no longer feel confident with the Metz...

I've read your posts saying Metz were good even when raining... Really sounds weird to me! I suspect that the pressure setting might explain this. But I don't understand the unit you're using to measure pressure... Must be an american/english one right ? :) Could anyone help me to convert it to european "bars" ?

Cheers,

DaFlake

Oct 25th, 2005, 6:35 am

http://www.onlineconversion.com/

Dman

Oct 25th, 2005, 6:37 am

PSI X .06894757 = Bar

I think this is correct. If not someone will jump in.

®win

Oct 25th, 2005, 7:36 am

He explained that BMW switched to bias-ply Bridgestones either at the beginning of '05 or sometime in late '04. He didn't know why. Does anyone on this site know why BMW would go from radials to bias-ply tires?
Check the HoW (http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/faq.php?faq=how_maintenance#faq_how_faq_mainwheel), scroll down to
(q) Wheels & Tires (Tyres)
and look under
1. Bridgestone BT020 bias ply tyres (new)

Esp. my entries will give you more info on the what and why.

molex98

Oct 25th, 2005, 8:32 am

currently running Metzr on the LT, second set, first lasted 18K. I had no issues(slipage,wobble, odd wear) and I ride year long. I typically run the BT020's on my other bikes.
Why not suit the tire for the application. I don't claim to know more than BMW engineers, so I rely (some might percieve as ignorant) on OEM standards for my 'typical' solution. Cruising and not Overly aggressive riding Metz on the LT(yes, I do ride it hard a few times a week on my long commutes), and more aggresive corner carving with a sport tourer go with da BT020(of which I average about 7K before cupping)

PolishS

Oct 25th, 2005, 5:37 pm

I have the Bridgestones on 2005 LT & after 8.5K's the front one looks pretty scary!!
I am going to switch to the Metzlers. lets see how they handle & last.
PS. did anyone experience the front tire wearing away on one side of it more than the other??

I am late to the thread, but I just changed my BT 020s at 6k miles, and the front tire was bald on the right hand side, after having been cupped at 3500 miles. I switched to the Metzelers but only have 150 miles so far, so too early to tell. About 50 were in the rain, but I am pretty cautious in the rain anyway.

Jim_Schuyler

Oct 26th, 2005, 1:01 pm

BMW did not do the switching on the 05. It is Bredgestone that did it. No radials on the 05, just bias tires. 42/48 recommended. Go to www.motorcycle-karttires.com then sport touring and you will see that only the bias BT020 is for the 05 LT.

I have 101,450 miles on my 00 LT with metzlers 880. They are good enuf for me. They were not so good on the grass on the shoulder of the road in Montana last year, but I don't think anything would have helped in keeping the rubber side down. I did get 13,000 miles on the front in 03 when we went to Alaska, but changed the rear in Ankorage. Did the haul road to the artic circle and the top of the world highway without any problems, two up and pulling a trailer.

Bridgestone was at the BMWRA 3 weeks ago and also did a seminar on tires. Very infomative. I did not realize that the radials were not for the 05 LT. Earlier models are O K with the radial.

One note is that they (BMW & Bridgestone) recommend a mix of radial and bias on one model of the F650.

MattKas

Oct 26th, 2005, 6:16 pm

rwischmann

Oct 26th, 2005, 7:00 pm

At the BMW RA rally a few weeks ago the BS rep indicated that the radial tires they had did not wear very long at all maybe 7000 miles. He did not indicate whether it was due to the compound or design, but they switched back to Bias tires just for the mileage to compete with Metzler. He also recommended the higher air pressure than the BMW mfg recommends.

meese

Oct 26th, 2005, 11:21 pm

The Bias tires may last longer, but they sure don't handle as well as the Radials. I'll be giving the Bias BT020 tires a full wet weather workout next week on my trip to the Pacific North Wet, so we'll see how that goes. If they slip, then they'll get pulled of at the earliest opportunity.

gdroege

Oct 27th, 2005, 4:44 am

A lot depends on your load and how you ride. We always ride two up (heavy) and after having two tire tread separations with the BT020's prefer the 880 for both wear and dependability. FYI, I have had no problems riding the curves on wet highways with the 880's. If you ride single and light and want the max grip with no consideration for wear milage, the BT's might be the way you want to go. So it all depends on riding weight, style, and personal opinions, all of which will vary from rider to rider.

rattler50

Nov 3rd, 2007, 9:05 am

I've always ran Metzeler tires when I wore out the originals. The BS on my Suzuki LC1500 dipped on the front but ran well on the back. I switched to Metzeler and it seemed to handle a lot better. It had felt sluggish before. I was suprised. I scraped my pegs in new places curves I run every day. I liked the handling. Metzelers on the LT drove me nuts screaming in the turns. They lasted a long time though. I've switched to BS just to give them a shot. I guess I'll see. So far I like them........... :D

JPSpen

Nov 3rd, 2007, 10:12 am

Bridgestone only makes a Bias tire for the LT now because of the problems they were having with the radials. Nuff said.. All your high load tires are bias...

But the bottom line is.......

If you ride aggressively and want the best grip go with the Bridgestones.

If you don't ride quite as hard and just tour around and want the longest lasting tires get the Metzlers.

I was doing things on the Bridgestones last summer that I wouldn't even think of trying on the Metzlers. The harder compound just is not suited for aggressive driving. Once, no, twice I have screwed up severely and thought surely we were going down and the Bridgestones just let me dirt bike her back into position. It was scary cool. Those moments when you have to stop and check your shorts..:)

Having said all that. I decided to replace my front at CCR and all they had were 880's.. So right now I'm running an 880 on front and a BT020 Bias on rear....:rotf:

HTH,

John

bowlesj

Nov 3rd, 2007, 6:02 pm

But the bottom line is.......

If you ride aggressively and want the best grip go with the Bridgestones.

If you don't ride quite as hard and just tour around and want the longest lasting tires get the Metzlers.

I know why you guys feel this way. But I just wish you wouldn't say it with such finality. It scares newer riders and it just ain't so in my book.

I believe one can do everything equally well on the LT on either tire. The limiting factor on the LT is ground clearance.

JMTCW again!

And who resurrected this ancient thread anyway:)

NOGILLS2

Nov 3rd, 2007, 7:22 pm

Well it appears that our choices have been changed. I just ordered tires this morning. I could not find B-Stones BT020 R or B, or Avon Azaras AV45, Bridgeston suggest BT021 now for the LT, Avon recomends Storms for the LT. After reading several reports of both the Avon and B-stones I choose the Metzlers 880. So far the best I found on my bike was Avon front and BT020 rears.
Oh well!

Moonshine

Nov 3rd, 2007, 7:57 pm

I have been running the Avon Storms and have really liked the way they handle the curves however they do have a tendency to hunt around a little on the straight & level. I just removed the front due to very unusual wear pattern on one side of the tire, not the left or right but on about 30 degrees of one side. There is slight cupping on the left side like the Metzler's did but on the right side on only one area there is a lot of cupping and when riding at slow speed it feels like you are riding over small speed bumps. Well I pulled it off and will send it in and try to get a warranty replacement, and in the mean time I mounted one of my Metzler's take offs that still had decent tread left on it. I hate to give up on the Avon twisty handling but it appears that I may go back to the Metzler's, I never had any real problem with the Metzler's other than the howling in the curves and it takes a little more effort/pressure on the handle bars to hold them into a curve.

Steve_R

Nov 3rd, 2007, 8:25 pm

So far the best I found on my bike was Avon front and BT020 rears. Yeah, but since you get a B-stone radial tire anymore that combo is out. I had put almost 2000 miles on the a set of Avon Storms and I really liked them. Of course I was running the pressure at 44 front and 50 rear. Just a little bit of squirm in the rear at those pressures on the straight and narrow, but the curves we WOW. Two up, they never even thought about squirming.

Next LT will be running radial storms all the time. I dislike the Metzeler ME880s that much.

And who resurrected this ancient thread anywayimages/smilies/smile.gifSome http://www.dinepride.com/forum/images/smiles/zozz_newbie.gif that didn't realize you don't answer a thread that's already two years old on the last post. :rotf: But at least he didn't actooly start a NEW tire thread. :D