Hiroshima

[mconlogue]

Attack sequence from the BBC drama of the same name


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/183651/hiroshima/

[zippy_gg]

From what I remember from History... the bombers of Hiroshima became insane after realizing what they were ordered to do...
Can you blame them?:(

[slowflyn]

From what I remember from History... the bombers of Hiroshima became insane after realizing what they were ordered to do...
Can you blame them?:(

Huh? Where did you find that bit of history? The crew of the Enola Gay were recruited by Paul Tibbets. Tibbets knew they were saving the lives of American service men and speeding the end of the war. My father and his brother were Marines on their way to invade Japan when the bombs were dropped. I think many of us would not be here had the bombs not been used.

[bowlesj]

And Tibbetts was on speaking engagements for years. No American soldier of WW2 was sorry for anything they did:mad:. The world is indebted to them.

[OKUIII]

That's the biggets piece of anti-history shit that I have ever heard. Go back and crawl under your rock.

[midwilshire]

That's the biggets piece of anti-history shit that I have ever heard. Go back and crawl under your rock.
Dude, what's your problem?

[mwnahas]

POST bombing...

In 1946 Paul participated in the Bikini Bomb Tests as technical advisor to the commander of the air task force. Later, he was responsible for the Air Force's purchase of the B-47 six engine jet bomber and its service tests at the Boeing factory in Wichita, Kansas. He went on to command two of the Strategic Air Command's bomber organizations, did a tour with NATO in France, and was responsible for establishing the National Military Command Center in the Pentagon. Next, he headed a team of officers and civilians which analyzed the major commands' use of resources to accomplish their assigned missions. He then reported the team's findings to the Air Staff.

When Paul Tibbets retired from the U.S. Air Force on August 31st, 1966, he had completed more than 29 and one-half years of service, but he was not through flying. Initially he resided in Geneva, Switzerland, operating three Lear jets throughout central Europe. There, he helped to educate the air ministries about the jet's uses. He also advised the air ministries about the aviation controls and guidelines they later instituted within their countries. Back in Columbus, Ohio in 1970, Paul joined Executive Jet Aviation, an all-jet air taxi service company, where he served in different capacities. Paul rose up the corporate ladder to become Chairman of the Board in 1982. The company changed ownership in 1985 and Paul retired again. During his 15 years Paul Tibbets acquired almost 400 hours in Lear jets, flying with an Air Transport Pilot rating.

[meese]

A flight log for the Enola Gay on its journey to Hiroshima was kept by the co-pilot Robert A Lewis. The following are extracts from it.

Lewis kept the log as he knew that the mission would be eventful but was not fully aware why it would be as he knew little about the bomb's explosive power. He knew it was different as did the rest of the crew but they were pilots and bombers not scientists.

"Fifteen seconds after the flash there were two very distinct slaps and that was all the physical effects we felt. We turned the ship so we could observe results and there in front of our eyes was without a doubt the greatest explosion man had ever witnessed. The city was 9/10 covered with smoke and a column of white cloud, which in less than three minutes reached 30,000 feet and then went up to 50,000 feet. I honestly have the feeling of groping for words to explain this or I might say, my God, what have we done? Everyone on the ship is actually dumbstruck, even though we had expected something fierce."Perhaps this extreme course of action was necessary to force an end to a long and bloody war. But it was still terrible in its intensity and consequences. We should never glorify war, or justify its brutality by comparing it to the brutality of our enemies. War may sometimes be necessary, but killing thousands (or hundreds of thousands) is never a good thing, and should always be the last resort.

And remember, there were 12 men on that mission, doing their job as ordered during a terrible conflict. So far, we've only mentioned two of them. None of us were there, and while I won't go so far to say that any of them went insane, I don't believe any of us can be sure of what their reactions were once the realized what they had initiated.

[bowlesj]

Perhaps this extreme course of action was necessary to force an end to a long and bloody war. But it was still terrible in its intensity and consequences. We should never glorify war, or justify its brutality by comparing it to the brutality of our enemies. War may sometimes be necessary, but killing thousands (or hundreds of thousands) is never a good thing, and should always be the last resort.

And remember, there were 12 men on that mission, doing their job as ordered during a terrible conflict. So far, we've only mentioned two of them. None of us were there, and while I won't go so far to say that any of them went insane, I don't believe any of us can be sure of what their reactions were once the realized what they had initiated.

Well put, Ken.

[George_S]

Perhaps this extreme course of action was necessary to force an end to a long and bloody war. But it was still terrible in its intensity and consequences. We should never glorify war, or justify its brutality by comparing it to the brutality of our enemies. War may sometimes be necessary, but killing thousands (or hundreds of thousands) is never a good thing, and should always be the last resort.

And remember, there were 12 men on that mission, doing their job as ordered during a terrible conflict. So far, we've only mentioned two of them. None of us were there, and while I won't go so far to say that any of them went insane, I don't believe any of us can be sure of what their reactions were once the realized what they had initiated.

Yes, I agree. But once you are attacked and have a war suddenly thrust upon you, the course of action is to kill your enemy, not have _your_ forces suffer the casualties that an invasion of Japan would have caused. Most estimates said the U.S. would have suffered at least 1 million dead and wounded, and you'd naturally have to multiply that figure to estimate how many Japanese would have died.

Imagine for a minute, that a U.S. President was aware he had that weapon and decided against using it, and that decision caused a million casualties of his citizens. He'd probably be put on trial after the war!

[zippy_gg]

Law Enforcement Officers who shoot and kill someone during the course of their duty get traumatized to a certain degree and are encouraged to attend therapy sessions.
So what would so far fetched to think that after finding out that you killed 100,000 people by dropping an A bomb during the course of your duty you might feel a little bit remorseful?
And I don't feel that Ibelong under a rock for having and expressing an opinion either, nor for reporting a fact that some choose to ignore.
As Ken said War is never a good thing, and too many civilians get the brunt of it. Self preservation does not make us insensitive. not does it turn us into animals.

[UltraLT]

I had the pleasure of riding through Los Alamos this Summer and stopped at the Atomic Museum. Well worth a stop, believe me. I had something happen there that I want to share.

First, there is an entire wall dedicated to rebutting revisionist history to the necessity of using A Bombs on Japan. I will spare you the details, which was well documented, but let me say that if an invasion of Japan had taken place, the cost would have been enormous on both sides: Allies and the Japanese.

Having lost my namesake Uncle on Iwo Jima, I am particularly sensitive to this.

There was a book on a pedestal at this display asking for comments. I watched a person of non-US heritage write in the book and went over to read it after he left. If you have a problem with high blood pressure, stop here.

This guy wrote disparaging words about American leadership in WWII and said we deserved whatever we got from now on because of our poor leadership as a nation.

I wrote under his comments that he was an idiot whose country was probably saved during WWII (it was) by the Allies and that his words were spoken by a person who had no stake in the issue then or now as far as I was concerned. I further wrote that if he takes such strong issue with this nation's leadership, he should perhaps think about going home.

Ok, I have a temper. Sorry, but I felt better thereafter. I signed my name to my comments. The other guy did not.

Ultra LT

We only get one chance, make it count.

[NCoe]

You did not make your earlier statement (about the flight crews going insane) sound like an opinion. It sounded like you were making a statement of fact, a statment with no facts to back it up.

I would agree that no one should ever celebrate the taking of a life. I know none of my relatives that were slated to go in to Japan ever celebrated what they had to do in other theaters. They just celebrated the fact that they didn't have to make another beach landing or fly another mission.

Law Enforcement Officers who shoot and kill someone during the course of their duty get traumatized to a certain degree and are encouraged to attend therapy sessions.
So what would so far fetched to think that after finding out that you killed 100,000 people by dropping an A bomb during the course of your duty you might feel a little bit remorseful?
And I don't feel that Ibelong under a rock for having and expressing an opinion either, nor for reporting a fact that some choose to ignore.
As Ken said War is never a good thing, and too many civilians get the brunt of it. Self preservation does not make us insensitive. not does it turn us into animals.

[eljeffe]

I had the pleasure of riding through Los Alamos this Summer and stopped at the Atomic Museum. Well worth a stop, believe me. I had something happen there that I want to share.

First, there is an entire wall dedicated to rebutting revisionist history to the necessity of using A Bombs on Japan. I will spare you the details, which was well documented, but let me say that if an invasion of Japan had taken place, the cost would have been enormous on both sides: Allies and the Japanese.

I grew up in Los Alamos. I used to intern at the museum before it moved from the lab facilities to downtown. I also used to deliver the local newspaper to many of the scientists who were on the Manhattan Project. Norris Bradbury (the museum's namesake), who took over the labs after Oppenheimer, was one of the greatest men I have ever personally known. Norris told me on one occasion that while he had reservations about the use of the bomb they had built, he had no remorse or doubts that it was the right thing to do given the circumstances. During my 4 years interning at the labs, I met many other scientists, all of whom expressed similar sentiments.

Over the past several years, Los Alamos has transitioned from weapons development to nuclear stockpile stewardship. This not only includes the US arsenal, but also cooperation with several other countries, including the former Soviet Union. These programs are meant to help dismantle the existing stockpile, and to provide a method for tracking the deadly materials they are constructed from.

I highly recommend the Bradbury Museum if you are in the area.

http://www.lanl.gov/museum/

And you can't beat the roads around Los Alamos.

Green Chili Cheeseburgers in Jemez Springs - mmmmmmmm. http://forums.france3.fr/images/perso/3/chg0.gif

[early1]

How many tons of incendiaries reigned on Japan in the month preceding "the Bomb"?
How many more lives were lost and how much more infrastructure was destroyed in those raids as compared to the two A-bombs?

Look it up .
Interesting food for thought.

Although it has been a "spell" since may Air Tactics History course I recall:
Basically,that the length and breadth of Japan was kept on fire for weeks prior to the "Drop".

The fact that Japan refused to negotiate after these horrific incendiary raids, coupled with the beyond fanatically suicidal defense of Iwo Jima and Okinawa led to the decision.

A decision, that in the same or similar circumstances today , I ,personally would expect my leader to make ,and were I asked to fly the mission would do so without hesitation or compunction, as I believe most aircrews would.