System 5 Helmets

[meese]

Anyone using a BMW System 5 helmet? Any comments?

Anyone using the WCS-1 Bluetooth option with it?

[Hilton]

Hi Ken, been using two of them for the last 6 months. Very pleased so far, very quiet, but haven't used flip ups before. No issues with fogging so far and rain doesn't seem to get in either, but the screen on the LT is good in this respect. Sorry can't help you with the blue tooth option, when we looked the integration with all the bits, Cell, CB, Music, Radar etc wasn't that good with the Voice II, but was told BMW were working on an extra device that would integrate. Rider to Pillion supposed to be good but as I recall around 8-9 hrs talk time prior to recharge. We used the J&B Elite which I modified to suit. Looks very professional if I do say so myself and works very very well with the newer lower connect cords from BMW. I think they have a built in filter.
Cheers

[grahamw]

I got one to replace my borked system 4 and I am very happy with it. It is quiet, though opening the chin vent increases the noise. I wear spectacles and when I had the system 4 I tended to use my Aria in the winter as I could then fit a breath gaurd like
http://www.oxprod.com/index.php?pg=3&action=dept&id=28&pid=131&p=

I believe there is 'double glazed' visor available

Not sure what I will need to do this winter as i am not commuting as much.

I do not have the Bluetooth option but have acquired 2 of these to play with

http://www.mavizen.com/servepage.asp?page=23

They have intercom facility due in a week and pairing up to 5 devices shortly.

My helmet is a size 61 if it is of any use to you when you are over.

[meese]

Thanks for the info, guys. We had System 4 helmets before and liked them. I had a Schuberth Concept after that, and we both have C2 helmets now. I'm gonna miss the built-in sun visor, but I'm still having lots of problems with headsets and mics in the C2 helmets.

I'll try on the System 5 at a dealer when I get across the pond, but may have to order them with the headsets installed.

[Thor1340]

Ken,

People I spoke to before I bought my System V's said the fit was slightly different than the system IV. Both my wife and I have them with autocom headsets, fitted very, very easily. You can retrofit the BMW bluetooth units but the dealers are reluctant to let you do it yourself, they favour fitting and charging you for the privellage.

Stuart

[black1200lt]

Ken,

I am interested in the BMW System V Helmet as well. :bmw:

The Carbon Fiber is very interesting looking. http://www.bmw-motorrad.de/_common/img/riderspoint/helmets/sportintegral_carbon.jpg

I have heard, as we are all finding out that the Blue Tooth is *very close* to being workable as I need it.

Mark had his working on his old bike. What all did you have working on that system Mark?
Was it on batteries that needed to be recharged or has anyone hooked it into the 12V battery on the bike?

I need it to work for:
1. GPS
2. Valentine one
3. Cell Phone
4. iPod
5. CB
Does anybody know if that would all be doable on the BMW System V Helmet?:confused:
Thanks so much for any light that you could shed on this.

[meese]

Coni, I thought you had a BMW carbon fibre helmet already? I'd love a new SportIntegral, but I still want a flip face.

I've been researching this heavily, as you probably guessed. The existing Bluetooth solutions are simply for phone connection. That's what Garmin, ScalaRider, etc. are doing. That is a single mono signal, with lower bandwidth (speech doesn't need as high quality as music). That's not what I want, either.

The Bluetooth option for the System V helmets is called WCS-1. It is available separately, but they recommend ordering a helmet with it factory installed (only available with silver helmets though). Also, I don't think it is designed for the SportIntegral Carbon helmet. Sorry. Maybe you can modify one, but personally I'm tired of cutting up helmets to add speakers and mics and I just want something that works from the factory. Wireless is a huge bonus.

The WCS-1 has a higher bandwidth stereo signal that allows for multiple device connections. Two helmets can be directly synched together for intercom function. BMW is also supposed to have a Bluetooth base unit that has 3 or 4 wired inputs and one output. This mounts to the bike and connects to your V1, iPod, FRS cables and then it provides a Bluetooth signal to one (or maybe both) helmets. A cell phone can be synched directly to the helmet, but only one helmet to one cell phone (two up would use two separate phones).

The battery life is listed at 9 hours. No, that's not nearly enough for me, either. One option is adding extra batteries to increase time, but that adds weight (and probably duct tape as well :)). Another option is plugging in to the bike for a while when you need to recharge, but that would depend on if there is a 12V charger available, or if the charging circuitry is built in to the helmet such that a simple DC converter can be used to feed power to the helmet. The charge plug tucks up into the back neck pad, so I don't know if it would be easy to pull out while riding. Maybe just plug in the helmet during one out of every three or four fuel stops?

The helmets and the WCS-1 kits are readily available overseas, but I'm still trying to get confirmation of whether the base units are available yet. And of course, you'd need to try helmets on to get the correct sizing.

I did manage to download the operating manuals for the WCS-1 from a UK BMW site. I can't find the link now, but I could send you the files. I've read a few positive reviews, and one negative on about this setup. I suppose you just have to get one and try it out.

I hope to have more info after my upcoming UK trip, if not a couple of helmets in hand. :)

I also heard that Schuberth is developing a Bluetooth headset system though they just say "available some time in 2006." Baehr and Autocom are working on it as well, but again I want a full stereo, multiple connection system, not just a repackaged cheapie cell phone setup.

I think it's getting really close, but maybe we're not quite there yet. Besides, I'm not sure these BMW helmets with work with that funny silver bike you just bought. :D You think that a company that makes pianos and guitars would have the whole helmet music system all worked out by now. :)

Personally, I'm still waiting for a carbon fibre flip up helmet, with a built-in sun visor, full stereo Bluetooth, and half the weight. I can get most of those options, but not all in the same helmet. Not yet, anyway.

[black1200lt]

Okay Ken, I'm with you on this crusade!!



I thought that I had seen someplace that the new System V *is* a flip up. Sadly the NEW Carbon Fibre is a sport Integral not a Blue tooth *or* a System V. I presently have a System IV, a Carbon Fibre System IV and a Sport Integral. Here are a few things that I found on the web:



The chin section may be opened with the proven central release button. The new closing mechanism is cable-actuated



WSC-1 is the perfect travel companion when riding by yourself. Even without a pillion, there's no reason to feel lonely. Riders can use their Bluetooth mobile phone to make calls, listen to their favorite songs on the MP3 player via the optional on-board unit* or listen to voice directions from the BMW Motorrad Navigator, You'll never be bored again.



When fitted to the System 5 helmet, the quietest flip-front helmet available.



The chin section can be folded up or closed with one hand due to a new mechanical system with bowden control



The helmet's can be easily handled with one hand and is readily convertible into a Jet helmet.



So it looks like System V does not come in Carbon Fibre like the System IV did. That really surprises me that they are not doing that again.



Well, the good news is that you can listen to cell phone music and the GPS in the blue tooth. If you can do those three, shouldn’t you be able to hook in V1 and CB as well? How hard could that be?

Raffy is keeping his ears open as well.

Thanks for your info. I'll be in touch and let me know what you find as well.

Best,

[meese]

It is possible they will come out with a carbon flip in the future, but not yet.

I'm still waiting on availability of the add-on Bluetooth box that will allow all the connectivity that we need. If you could get a Bluetooth iPod and Bluetooth V1, then I don't think you'd need the extra box.

I'll probably head to the UK in early November. I'll keep y'all informed.

[mneblett]

Mark had his working on his old bike. What all did you have working on that system Mark? Was it on batteries that needed to be recharged or has anyone hooked it into the 12V battery on the bike?Hi, Coni -- I just came across your message.

Sorry, my '05 rig isn't of any use here -- I was not using a Bluetooth-equipped helmet (I still had the cord from the VOICE II headset plug to the J&M headset). The Bluetooth part was a Motorola car kit which would receive the Bluetooth signals from my Bluetooth Blackberry, and then transfer the phone audio/mic into the VOICE II's phone socket via a cable. The Motorola kit was bike-powered.

I've also been talking to my dealer about the (unconscionable, IMO) gap -- the release of a Bluetooth-enabled GPS without any means to get the phone signal to the helmet, while still preserving the VOICE II audio/mic functionality (since it's not practical to put two separate headsets in the same helmet!). I, too, have been assured that "something" is coming, likely not until sometime next spring.

Here's the interesting speculation part http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif: Right after having the discussion with my dealer, I visited the J&M website, checking out their latest Bluetooth product offerings. In their "coming soon" text on the Bluetooth page is an announcement that a complete "integrated" solution for audio/phone/etc. is coming -- guess when -- next spring! A coincidence?? I wouldn't lay money on it ;)

[grahamw]

I found this link rwecently on the board

http://www.cellset.com/dualauxadset.html

Which looks like linking all your audio outputs into 1 output that could be transmitted over a BT link, preferably A2DP which is the BT stereo headset profile. The phone has its own profile and I am not sure how CB would work.

I found this link which has useful info

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69872&page=1&pp=16

It seems the batteries are standard AA so if they are easily changed thta should extend your day.

[mneblett]

I found this link rwecently on the board

http://www.cellset.com/dualauxadset.html

Which looks like linking all your audio outputs into 1 output that could be transmitted over a BT link, preferably A2DP which is the BT stereo headset profile. The phone has its own profile and I am not sure how CB would work.

I found this link which has useful info

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69872&page=1&pp=16

It seems the batteries are standard AA so if they are easily changed thta should extend your day.Great for audio, but no microphone -- the problem plaguing the current NAV III/VOICE II setup. :(

[Hilton]

Hi all, thought I'd chip in with another thought. As in previous posts, an integrated blue tooth solution is "coming" In the System 5 helmet the microphone's is a so called array, not sure how many or where they are placed. This helmet allows easy removal of the chin bar, converting to a jet type helmet while retaining the original visor or you can buy a longer visor to suit. With an accessory cover over the pivot mechanism, looks quite good. One reason I like to have the boom type mike from J&M. Works well with both applications. ( Safety aspects of Jet versus Full noted ! )

[Woolly]

.... converting to a jet type helmet while retaining the original visor or you can buy a longer visor to suit. ...

If you use the original visor, it does not seat properly in the lower position, resulting in a LOT of wind noise. If you buy the correct open face visor, along with the side pieces the helmet is incredibly quiet. This is what I use most of the time.

The attached piccy shows the components of the bluetooth kit.

[grahamw]

Great for audio, but no microphone -- the problem plaguing the current NAV III/VOICE II setup. :(

Is the issue there not more to do with the fact that you cannot access the mic. socket when mounted in the BMW mount as I am sure that someone on this board got his phone to work via a 2820.
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14385
and it was Mark that pointed out the mic. problem
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14548

In these cases you are using the GPS as a bridge to your mobile. If you took the audio out through the 4 into 1 system you should then be able to connect directly to the phone with your BT headset.

COnnecting to only 2 devices seems a bit low - if you carry a pillion that would mean pillion and phone but no music ;-/

I have emailed BMW and will pass on any useful info if I recieve any.

[mneblett]

Is the issue there not more to do with the fact that you cannot access the mic. socket when mounted in the BMW mountThis is one of the differences between the 2820 and the NAV III -- no plugs on the left side (the side covered by the cradle), so no external mic socket anywhere on the NAV III. :(

[simoncharles]

Not having seen either, but intending to buy the NAV III, is it not possible to drill a hole in the cradle to access the mic socket ?.

[mneblett]

Not having seen either, but intending to buy the NAV III, is it not possible to drill a hole in the cradle to access the mic socket ?.There is no mic socket on the NAVIII to reach. As for using the 2820 with the NAVIII cradle (which, BTW, would not have the cradle's four extra buttons enabled), I do not believe the cradle is thin enough in the mic socket region to permit access without major/ugly hacking of the cradle.

[meese]

BMW's WCS-1 Bluetooth system uses two mics placed in the forehead of the helmet. They can be seen to the left in the pic that Woolly posted above.

The problem I've had with boom mics is that flip face helmets often have a large chin barrier to reduce noise and cold air drafts. This interferes with the boom mic, so you end up moving the mic every time you open and close the front of the helmet. Very annoying, to say the least.

My BMW contact says they have had to replace the main circuit board on the WCS-1 system, and are just now starting to ship the helmets with the new components installed.

[Woolly]

My setup is as follows....

I've got a 2005 LT - when I bought it, there was a 'free' 2620 garmin thrown in (aka BMW Motorad II), including mount & wiring. Under the mount is a mono 2.5 mm jack socket. I went to Maplins (similar to Radio Shack in the States) and bought a waterproof speaker & lead. I mounted the speaker on the dash panel, on the cut out where 'pre 2005' BC lives. At full volume on satnag, I can here it over the sound system. It works very well for me.

When I bought my System V helmet, I could not get a bluetooth kit at the same time - the dealer said (in June this year) that they'd be out later - but wern't happy for me to retrofit it ????? (Cambridge grad electronic engineer - might just be able to cope ??)

[Woolly]

. . . that Woolly posted above.



Am I the only person who views the site 'newest first' - saves you going through all previous posts ...( that post would be below yours, Mr Meese!)

[mneblett]

The problem I've had with boom mics is that flip face helmets often have a large chin barrier to reduce noise and cold air drafts. This interferes with the boom mic, so you end up moving the mic every time you open and close the front of the helmet. Very annoying, to say the least.My solution for this is to use a boom mic, but have it permanently located in the Concept's chinbar, with a couple J&M mini-coil extensions bridging the gap between the boom and the helmet. JMTCW :)

[meese]

Tried that, but could never quite get the coiled leads to work well. My latest thought is to attach the Baehr mic to the side of the chin padding on my C2. Until I can get a working Bluetooth setup, that is.

[Hilton]

I'll take some pics today to show you how I installed the J&M mike. To clear the wind baffle when closing the chin bar I just hold the baffle up. On opening it doesn't snag at all. The removable cheek pads come preformed to accept the speakers but needed the smaller central molding reduced a tad to accommodate the J&M ones. I'll post today.

[grahamw]

Finally got an answer from BMW to the questions I asked - took them3 goes but they met their SLAhttp://www.bmwlt.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=112124#

They confirmed that you will be able to pair a phone, music player (or their expected box) and pillion all at the same time.

I suppose time will tell.

[meese]

Looks like we're out of luck for a while.

"Sadly, due to ongoing technical issues the BMW Blue Tooth helmet has now been withdrawn from sale and is not expected to be re-introduced until later next year (2007)!"

And just when I actually showed up in the UK with cash in hand. :( I hope they get it sorted, or Schuberth does, or someone else. (Note: I'm not interested in a cell phone adapter. I want a full stereo, wireless communications setup. It's close, but not quite here yet.)

Guess I'll replace the Baehr headset in my C2 and keep plugging in for a while.

[grahamw]

What a perfect excuse to come back in the spring - it might even be a bit warmer, might. I would still try the helmet on and make a note of the size so you can contact a dealer before your next trip and ask them to get one in stock. Sorry I will not make it south this time and hope to see you next time.