Drop the bike?

[wipatters]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, and as you will immediately be able to tell, I am new to motorcycles. So new in fact, that I don't have a license, a bike, and have never been on a bike. I do enjoy the education that I'm getting from this board. Oh yeah, one last thing, I do love the K1200LT too. I've always loved the touring bikes ever since I was a kid.

Anyway, the reason I started this thread is that in my infinite ignorance of motorcycles I'm trying to understand why does one drop the bike? Or maybe the question is what causes one to drop the bike? It seems that some people believe that everyone will drop their bike and yet there are others that never have. So that implies to me that there are certain variables, or some root cause, that is at work to cause this phenomena.

[BLBantz]

First of all, no license is required to drop the LT. You could go to the dealer of your choice for a test ride and drop one there. :0 The only bike I have ever dropped is the LT. My opinion (and we all know about opinions) is that it is top heavy and given the bulk of the LT it doesn't take much of a lean for that weight to take command of the situation and topple things. The good news is that after you drop yours there is a club you can join right here on the board called Droppers Annonymous. Membership is free. Damage to the LT...not included.

[Ranger6]

As you will learn in the Basic Rider Course you will hopefully take if you haven't already done so, laws of physics dictate that riding a motorcycle is essentially one continuous "controlled fall" in the first place, because anything on two narrow, rounded wheels like the average motorcycle, with most of the weight above those wheels, is just simply not going to remain upright by itself. Therefore as a rider, it is up to you to keep it upright once you take it off the kickstand and head down the road. Accomplishing that entertains several variables, not the least of which are experience, speed, etc. and in the case of the LT especially the center of gravity of the motorcycle. If you haven't already noticed, the LT and most of the other BMW models have greater ground clearance than say, most cruisers for example, which allows for a greater lean angle and therefore a brisker pace and performance in the curves we all love. Compared to other big touring motorcycles, the LT can't be beat when it comes to performance in the twisties, but it comes at a price at being somewhat top heavy, and if you are not paying attention and don't practice slow handling maneuvers from time to time that bad boy WILL go down on you, as many on this board can attest to, moi being one of them. :(

[pdrstraw]

Hi Bill,

Welcome to the group! This is one of the best motorcycle sites on Al Gore's internet! Good to have you aboard!

Dropping our beloved LT???? Yes...like you, I've listened to stories for years about how innocent folks like members here have experienced drops. Most are more embarrassing then damaging. I, like you, have always wondered how anyone could let that happen. Is it carelessness? Is it inexperience? I wondered, as I knocked on wood, if I, an LT owner for over five years would ever have that kind of thing happen to me! I'd be horrified!

Fast forward now to last Sunday morning. Woke up at my sister's place in Owensboro, KY enroute home from a marvelous week in Northern Georgia and the 7th annual Curve Cowboy Reunion. The bike was loaded from our week's trip. Breakfast was enjoyed and it was time to go.

My sister's drive was rather inclined, so I told Reggie to let me back out into the street before she mounted up. The street was still pointing a little downhill, but not bad...and Reggie threw her leg over the pillion seat as she has done hundreds of times before. The bike was heavy that morning with the saddlebags and trunk full, and a Chicane trunk rack bag and tank bag also adding to the packed weight. I suddenly found the bike leaning and went to correct the side movement. BUT CRAP!....it was too late...I was past the point of return...and in slow motion my blue LT...still virgin to any position other than upright...landed on it's right side as my horrified sister and brother-in-law looked on! MORTIFICATION!!!!

Now I've been having fun all week telling folks that my big, fat wife caused the tipover when she mounted the LT. But those of you who are familiar with Reggie, know her to be all of 105 lbs dripping wet! So much for that excuse. Maybe my bars were turned a tad when Reggie climbed on. Maybe I wasn't braced enough when I nodded my approval for her to board. Maybe my packed state made the LT even more top heavy than usual. Maybe, maybe, maybe.....but I really don't have the foggiest idea what had happened...except for the fact that I was now an official member of the Anonymous Droppers Club! OK, not so anonymous now!

No big deal, I thought as I climbed off my steed. The tipover wing cover and the right saddlebag trip had a few gnarled edges from their pavement contact. But most disappointing was the hole punched in the lower right cowling by the tip of my extended jpeg! The extended jpegs, when folded in, follow the lines of the tipover wing, but don't fold in as far as the straight model. When the LT goes down, the jpeg WILL proceed to punch a hole in your lower cowling. Happened to a friend of mine, others I've read about, and now me. Because I'm pretty anal retentive about my precious bike...I've got a replacement cowling on order, along with the tipover wing covers and saddlebag trim (thankfully in black, since that part in chrome is five times more costly than the "schwartz" piece). So...within a couple of weeks, only my pride will remain bruised.

Bottom line? As many have reported, poop happens when you blink sometimes. A moment of inattentiveness, a sloping pavement, a gravelly surface....anything can cause these plump beasts to lean more than they should, and when that happens, you might as well let her go, because gravity, coupled with a 900 (or more) pound tilting cycle is unstoppable!

My advice to myself and anyone else this happens to is: GET OVER IT! My LT, now with just shy of 60,000 wonderful miles on her, it every bit as rideable today as she was last week. The minimally scraped parts, whether repaired or not, do not interfere with the joy I'll still have piloting my LT over the roads of America!!!!

My plan for now is to prepare for my next trip (like this weekend's club ride to Northern Michigan's Leelanau Pennisula). And I'll follow the often repeated advice on this board of Just Ride It!

For the record....the JPegs (the extended model) are now for sale. If the bike falls again, I won't have to worry about the cowling again. And just maybe...the traumatic experience of seeing her go down will be easier as well!

Regards,

Paul Rakestraw
South Bend, IN

[slowflyn]

It's a gravity thing. Gravity is always on the job, just looking for that one moment your brain forgets just one leeetle thing.

[messenger13]

I disagree with all that has been said. I'm of the strong opinion that once-in-a-while, the big girl just needs to lay down and rest. :D :D :D And what this girls wants...SHE GETS!!! http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/images/smilies/yesnod.gif

[dshealey]

If you do test ride an LT (a pretty daunting task for someone who has never ridden ANY motorcycle) by far the biggest thing to keep on your mind is to NEVER hit the front brakes at walking speed with the handle bars turned any at all. You want to be berfectly straight ahead and balanced before clamping down on the front brake. That will drop the bike quicker than just about anything else. Of course, stopping on sideways incline where your foot will not touch down before the bike is leaned too far, or putting you foot down on oil, leaves, sand, etc. will also cause problems.

Parking on the sidestand without putting the bike in first gear and rolling it forward against engine compression before leaning it against the sidestand is a great way to let the bike fall down on it's own, without your help. :D

Just remember, a motorcycle's NATURAL and SEEKED position is on it's side. :D

[JCabranes]

Dropped my LT in my driveway after coming back from a weekend rally/camping trip. I pulled up next to my car... dropped the sidestand then stepped off. Apparently only my head was in the upright and locked position because as I stepped off Liebchen, the sidestand just folded backwards and the bike fell over INTO my car. No damage to the bike... BIG ol dent in the car. Frankly, if one of them had to take damage I'm glad it was the car.

[dwsdad]

If you do test ride an LT (a pretty daunting task for someone who has never ridden ANY motorcycle) by far the biggest thing to keep on your mind is to NEVER hit the front brakes at walking speed with the handle bars turned any at all. You want to be berfectly straight ahead and balanced before clamping down on the front brake. That will drop the bike quicker than just about anything else. Of course, stopping on sideways incline where your foot will not touch down before the bike is leaned too far, or putting you foot down on oil, leaves, sand, etc. will also cause problems.

Parking on the sidestand without putting the bike in first gear and rolling it forward against engine compression before leaning it against the sidestand is a great way to let the bike fall down on it's own, without your help. :D

Just remember, a motorcycle's NATURAL and SEEKED position is on it's side. :D

What he said.....and yes I have dropped mine twice. Both in the comforts of my own driveway. And I've dropped the Connie a few times too. Sometimes they just want to fall over and there ain't much you can do when 800# of motorcyle wants to lay down.

[Hilton]

It's simple really. Gravity Sucks !

[Dix42]

I describe my LT as a big fat pig at parking lot speed. Then at about 10- 15 mph she looses a lot of weight. Above 20mph she becomes a ballet dancer. When almost 900 lbs leans past a certain point the only thing you can do is try to slow the fall as much as possible.

[bowlesj]

Anyway, the reason I started this thread is that in my infinite ignorance of motorcycles I'm trying to understand why does one drop the bike? Or maybe the question is what causes one to drop the bike? It seems that some people believe that everyone will drop their bike and yet there are others that never have. So that implies to me that there are certain variables, or some root cause, that is at work to cause this phenomena.

I would say the answer to your question "why" and the root cause for all drops at zero speed is, - not paying attention to the situation-

I know that is easy to say, but with every drop that each of us has had I am sure that if each rider thought back to it, they would find a root "what" for their occurence - stand not down securely, slope or grade, pillion motion, brake actuation, secure footing - that most likely would have been prevented by paying more attention and making a better decision for that incident.

I had a bike hit the pavement on a public street for the first time last week. Simply not paying attention to the grade of the roadway in proportion to my short legs and higher CG with pillion. Simple. How can I improve - pay better attention. And that only comes with tons of practice and patience during maneuvers.

There are a ton of good tips on this forum - search and read many of them and the awareness will be a huge benefit

BTW - your in Hilliard - talk to Howard Schisler in Rushville about his progress from a non rider last year to a seasoned LT'er, I'm sure he'll have some tips on starter bikes etc.

Good luck and have fun

[messenger13]

BTW - your in Hilliard - talk to Howard Schisler in Rushville about his progress from a non rider last year to a seasoned LT'er, I'm sure he'll have some tips on starter bikes etc.Yes, Howard would be a great source for you at this time. You can send him a PM by clicking HERE (http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=9943).

He can also tell you all about my LT for sale. :D Whenever Howard holds a tech session, I am usually one of the lead techs.

[Lynn_Keen]

If you do test ride an LT (a pretty daunting task for someone who has never ridden ANY motorcycle) by far the biggest thing to keep on your mind is to NEVER hit the front brakes at walking speed with the handle bars turned any at all. You want to be berfectly straight ahead and balanced before clamping down on the front brake. That will drop the bike quicker than just about anything else. Of course, stopping on sideways incline where your foot will not touch down before the bike is leaned too far, or putting you foot down on oil, leaves, sand, etc. will also cause problems.

Parking on the sidestand without putting the bike in first gear and rolling it forward against engine compression before leaning it against the sidestand is a great way to let the bike fall down on it's own, without your help. :D

Just remember, a motorcycle's NATURAL and SEEKED position is on it's side. :D
Hey David, you forgot one of the most embarrassing reasons for dropping your bike; Forgetting to put your side stand down before dismounting! Don't ask how I know! :~(

[wipatters]

Great replies and advice from everyone.

It all makes sense - I think I'm making progress. :)

[jayjacobson]

Well, I joined the club multiple times (3) on my virgin LT ride!

I had never worked a "dry" clutch before. Guess I wasn't used to the feel. I let out the clutch a little too fast--killing the engine. All you need is the front wheels turned a little to one side and down she goes--taking your ass with her!

Anywho, after picking up 850 pounds of M/C--three times--I was cured! Never happened again.

[hschisler]

...BTW - your in Hilliard - talk to Howard Schisler in Rushville about his progress from a non rider last year to a seasoned LT'er, I'm sure he'll have some tips on starter bikes etc.John (and Joe),

Thanks for your kind words. I will claim that I have a lot more experience than 14 months ago (just about a year's worth! ;) ) but I won't claim to be a seasoned rider... just yet. Getting better every day, like so many others.

Bill and I have had some emails and phone calls back and forth, and Joe and I (and Mrs. Messenger13, and my wife) had the pleasure of meeting Bill yesterday for lunch in Columbus. I'll let Bill describe how THAT meeting went.

As Paul Harvey says, "Stand by... for NEWS!". :yeah:

[Dick]

Well, I joined the club multiple times (3) on my virgin LT ride!

I had never worked a "dry" clutch before. Guess I wasn't used to the feel. I let out the clutch a little too fast--killing the engine. All you need is the front wheels turned a little to one side and down she goes--taking your ass with her!

Anywho, after picking up 850 pounds of M/C--three times--I was cured! Never happened again.
I haven't had to offer thanks to the BMW Injuneers since '01 --- for providing those bumper guards fore and aft. I cannot imagine the number of threads that would be running about the drop-damage feature, were it not for the guards. Seems I've seen another bike model or two with similar guards - ST1300s maybe?? Dunno, butt me and Toad were really glad for ours back in '99 - '01, when we were 'practicing' the fall-down-go-boom exercise. We even got good enough to perform in front of audiences!! :rolleyes: And again, a 'thank you Ron' to Kellenbenz for gifting me with some space age cushioning material that applied to the pannier's chrome strip guard - looks fine and works extremely well. And I don't think he had to serve any hard jail time for kyping that stuff!! :eek: ;) Nowadays, I see some company is offering a similar product to protect those ~$100 pannier guards --- cheap at twice the price!

[bowlesj]

John (and Joe),

Thanks for your kind words. I will claim that I have a lot more experience than 14 months ago (just about a year's worth! ;) ) but I won't claim to be a seasoned rider... just yet. Getting better every day, like so many others.

Bill and I have had some emails and phone calls back and forth, and Joe and I (and Mrs. Messenger13, and my wife) had the pleasure of meeting Bill yesterday for lunch in Columbus. I'll let Bill describe how THAT meeting went.

As Paul Harvey says, "Stand by... for NEWS!". :yeah:

Well this is the only post I've read so far today, and from the looks of Bill's new avatar, I'd say Joe gave Bill a killer deal on a '02 LT.

I'll look further now.

Ride well Howard, and welcome once again, Bill, to the fold.

[dandiver]

I must echo what all before me have said and would emphasize that at it is important to focus on the bike at very low speeds and pay attention to the environment. I've been riding since the late 60's all types of bikes and in my opinion, it falls over because of the high center of gravity (remove the top case and replace it with a Ft. Worth Rack and feel the difference) and the ABS brakes (the front shocks do not absorb slow stopping momentum).

It is still my favorite bike and I never fail to smile when ridding or just thinking about it.

[hschisler]

Well this is the only post I've read so far today, and from the looks of Bill's new avatar, I'd say Joe gave Bill a killer deal on a '02 LT.

I'll look further now...Interesting -- I didn't catch that until you mentioned it.

Joe mentioned in a different thread that he is on his way to deliver his LT to "its new owner". I'll let him or the new owner break the full details, as it's their deal.

[messenger13]

Well this is the only post I've read so far today, and from the looks of Bill's new avatar, I'd say Joe gave Bill a killer deal on a '02 LT.
:confused: (mums the word) ;)

[wipatters]

Joe mentioned in a different thread that he is on his way to deliver his LT to "its new owner". I'll let him or the new owner break the full details, as it's their deal.

Yes, it's true... Joe is a shrewd negotiator. I was trembling after the deal. Actually that was probably from the test ride that he took me on! :) Since I don't know how fly one of these things yet, he had to drive.

I enjoyed meeting up with Howard, Lisa, Joe and Alicia yesterday. The conversation was great, tips invaluable, and I'm looking forward to one day meeting the rest of the forum members.

It seems like I'm putting the cart before the horse here by getting the LT before I have any experience. That's usually how I seem to do everything else, so why not? Howard seems to have done quite well with the journey so I'm certainly encouraged.

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome and I hope to see you on the road one day.

[wipatters]

...from the looks of Bill's new avatar, I'd say Joe gave Bill a killer deal on a '02 LT.

I just couldn't wait to remove my old tricycle avatar and replace it with something substantial.

[hschisler]

Congratulations!! :cool:

Do you take delivery of the bike today? I think Joe said he was on his way to meet you again today.

You know where BMW of Columbus is, and my office is 1.2 miles east on Main St. I'd like to go riding with you and (later, when you have a few miles under your belt) your wife.

Take it easy the first few times around the neighborhood, and remember the slow-speed tips we discussed yesterday. You'll do great.

[cfell]

It's the GravityMonsters.. they grab them and pll to earth..

[Skippy]

I was one of those who after reading a few of these info posts that said it won't happen to me. Up until yesterday it hadn't. Found out a few things after reading a few replies to your post as well that I wish I would have read before yesterday.
Was going up a hill and found out I had made a wrong turn so decided to turn around. First mistake, turning left slowly going up hill slowly. Gravity does take over. My non dropped bike was on her side. Second issue was the bike is on it's side laying down hill. Think about how one person is going to lieft it upright against the incline. Do not know how I had the strength but got her up. Put kick stand down to catch my breath and no sooner then got her up she was down for a second time. Two in one day was all I could take.
Again got her up and was able to move forward where I should have turned to some flat ground. Just a few small scrapes but my pride has deep scars.
Appreciate the info on the not holding the front barke in the slow turn as since the bile is so top heavy it does have a tendency take you where you do not wnat to go. learned my lesson and have no plans to ever agian try to lift that bike upright.

[mwnahas]

Came close a few times from stupid things, like gabbing the front break in a parking lot (don't do that) but learned from them. Another time I stalled it when going slow, came close there too. Another time I knew I was going to drop it turning too sharp and going too slow, but I twisted the throttle and she stood up for me. Lucky!

[kmdovie]

i dropped my lt just a week ago... i tried to get it off the center stand the way i heard someone here does it... one foot flat on the ground... my rt. leg over the seat...when the bike starts to roll... shift your weight and hold up the bike... didn't work for me... i shifted my weight and down she went... i know not to try something different when what you do works... and yes...it hurts to see the bike down... glad you are ok...as i am too...

[Stixx]

I dropped mine. I could understand if it was an LT bur an RT ain't all that heavy, still, with full tank and top box loaded it is indeed high center of gravity in action and if you let it get too far over , down she goes. Aggravating thing is I've dropped before on another BMW and knew what I did wrong this time I have no idea. That hurts worse than my pride thing.

[banddr2]

I dropped mine third day out. Never rode a big bike b4 and I was extra concious about drops. Read all the horror stories. Pulled into a parking lot, saw the place I wanted and was going to pull in, wait, at last minute decided to go by and back in, buy my handle bars were already turned. I stopped with my handle bars turned to the left and down it went. Fortunately I helped it down so it soft landed. Still some small scuffs and alot of embarrasment. Fortunately I decided my first beemer would be a 1996 instead of going out and buying a brand spanking new one. I wouldn't trust myself with a new one yet.

[gpolakow]

Hi Bill,

Welcome to the group! This is one of the best motorcycle sites on Al Gore's internet! Good to have you aboard!

Dropping our beloved LT???? Yes...like you, I've listened to stories for years about how innocent folks like members here have experienced drops. Most are more embarrassing then damaging. I, like you, have always wondered how anyone could let that happen. Is it carelessness? Is it inexperience? I wondered, as I knocked on wood, if I, an LT owner for over five years would ever have that kind of thing happen to me! I'd be horrified!

Fast forward now to last Sunday morning. Woke up at my sister's place in Owensboro, KY enroute home from a marvelous week in Northern Georgia and the 7th annual Curve Cowboy Reunion. The bike was loaded from our week's trip. Breakfast was enjoyed and it was time to go.

My sister's drive was rather inclined, so I told Reggie to let me back out into the street before she mounted up. The street was still pointing a little downhill, but not bad...and Reggie threw her leg over the pillion seat as she has done hundreds of times before. The bike was heavy that morning with the saddlebags and trunk full, and a Chicane trunk rack bag and tank bag also adding to the packed weight. I suddenly found the bike leaning and went to correct the side movement. BUT CRAP!....it was too late...I was past the point of return...and in slow motion my blue LT...still virgin to any position other than upright...landed on it's right side as my horrified sister and brother-in-law looked on! MORTIFICATION!!!!

Now I've been having fun all week telling folks that my big, fat wife caused the tipover when she mounted the LT. But those of you who are familiar with Reggie, know her to be all of 105 lbs dripping wet! So much for that excuse. Maybe my bars were turned a tad when Reggie climbed on. Maybe I wasn't braced enough when I nodded my approval for her to board. Maybe my packed state made the LT even more top heavy than usual. Maybe, maybe, maybe.....but I really don't have the foggiest idea what had happened...except for the fact that I was now an official member of the Anonymous Droppers Club! OK, not so anonymous now!

No big deal, I thought as I climbed off my steed. The tipover wing cover and the right saddlebag trip had a few gnarled edges from their pavement contact. But most disappointing was the hole punched in the lower right cowling by the tip of my extended jpeg! The extended jpegs, when folded in, follow the lines of the tipover wing, but don't fold in as far as the straight model. When the LT goes down, the jpeg WILL proceed to punch a hole in your lower cowling. Happened to a friend of mine, others I've read about, and now me. Because I'm pretty anal retentive about my precious bike...I've got a replacement cowling on order, along with the tipover wing covers and saddlebag trim (thankfully in black, since that part in chrome is five times more costly than the "schwartz" piece). So...within a couple of weeks, only my pride will remain bruised.

Bottom line? As many have reported, poop happens when you blink sometimes. A moment of inattentiveness, a sloping pavement, a gravelly surface....anything can cause these plump beasts to lean more than they should, and when that happens, you might as well let her go, because gravity, coupled with a 900 (or more) pound tilting cycle is unstoppable!

My advice to myself and anyone else this happens to is: GET OVER IT! My LT, now with just shy of 60,000 wonderful miles on her, it every bit as rideable today as she was last week. The minimally scraped parts, whether repaired or not, do not interfere with the joy I'll still have piloting my LT over the roads of America!!!!

My plan for now is to prepare for my next trip (like this weekend's club ride to Northern Michigan's Leelanau Pennisula). And I'll follow the often repeated advice on this board of Just Ride It!

For the record....the JPegs (the extended model) are now for sale. If the bike falls again, I won't have to worry about the cowling again. And just maybe...the traumatic experience of seeing her go down will be easier as well!

Regards,

Paul Rakestraw
South Bend, IN
Welcome to the club. You made some good points. Two things I always do when even my 100lb wife climbs on. One is stand up so my ass is not on the seat. It definitely gives me more stability. The other is, if there is a slope of any kind I have her climb on from the high side of the slope. You may have done all that, too. Just some observations.

[brick_haus]

I would say the answer to your question "why" and the root cause for all drops at zero speed is, - not paying attention to the situation-



There is no other logical explaination than that stated above.