New Shocks? Poor performance in mtns

[bmwrubbercow]

OK. You guys helped me greatly with my recent question on the throttle upgrade and need for same. Now, if you will stay with me, lets talk shocks.


Have had this bike since 3/05, but the trip to Chateau Elan was first trip on it to the mountains. And two up to boot..

The two things I noticed immediately in those twisties was lack of throttle control and poor performance in the curves, especially down hill, etc.

I have ridden in the Smokies alot on my S bike and on my GS bike--first time on the LT. Both of those bikes are very stiff when shocks are tightened and I know should be expected to out perform the LT here. BUT........

Anyway, here goes. Some specifics...

Tire pressure: ft 44 r 48
Persons: 2 up
Aprox weight of us on bike: 425 lbs

Shocks: BMW OEM original eq 16,500 miles on bike and shocks

Recently topped up the oil in rear shock. No adjustment available on front to my knowledge but did have rear turned clockwise as far as it would go.

Observations: As we left home in Bham Tues AM, we had luggage of approx 50 lbs in addtion to us. As I pulled out of the drive (flat) and turned right and gased it into street, small bump downward (an inch or two at most) and front shock bottomed!

Ride on slab all the way to destination. Rear shock fully tightened. Ride felt great, the newly oil topped rear shock felt stiffer than before and the interstate ride was much improved from before.

Day trip to Deal's Gap area. Intent to ride the Gap scrubbed after noticing the bike's handling in route. ( I have ridden the Gap several times in the past solo on the R1100 GSA, Ohlin shocks, with great satisfaction).

Two up handling on US 129 from Robbinsville to Crossroads of Time was poor. Can't say rear of bike actually swayed around like a cow (can anyone say rubbercow)? But it did not not feel totally in sink with the front either. That and the delayed throttle response made the decision to stay off the Gap. We left Crossroads of time on NC 28 and continued around Fontana Lake, with same conditions. Downhill, severe curves--I felt like a beginning rider (many yrs actually and something around 150K miles so not a beginner).

Bottom line. Ride is satisfactory on interstate and good secondaries. That's it. Don't want this bike if that's as good as it gets. But I watched others and I see it can be better! Much better.

I think I am over due for shocks. What do you think? At 16,500 miles they should not be worn out. Perhaps we are heavy enough they were never enough? I bought the bike with 8K in 3/05. Did not top up rear shock oil until recently after learning to on this site. Better now than they were at 8K. But unsatsifactory in tough curves, especially with elevation changes.

Informed comments please!!

Thank you all in advance,

Tom

[messenger13]

How much of the 16.5K was done 2-Up? If most of it was, then I'd say you're definitely ready for new shocks. I've ridden 3 LTs with Wilburs, and the difference was HUGE!!!

[bmwrubbercow]

No idea on the first 8K miles. Since then approx 35% two up I guess.

You like the Wilbers?? Can you compare them with the Ohlins? Performance comparison, cost comparison, ride quality comparision, etc.

Would I save money waiting until the 24 K service to have this done as opposed to the 18K coming up?

And this may sound silly, but I wonder if this could possibly have anything to do with my continued problems stopping the bike smoothly and in a straight line. I have been assuming this problem is totally about weight and braking.

[messenger13]

I had the OEMs on mine...but I'm selling the LT since buying the new GT. If I was keeping the LT, I would go with the Wilburs. They cost just a bit more than the Ohlins, but they have more adjustment and flexibility than the Ohlins. But either will give you the ride that you're looking for.

As for saving money...you should throw out a request to have a local Tech Session. A great way to meet some LT'ers, learn about your bike, and get your shocks done for next to nothing. I (and a band of merry men) installed a set of shocks on Uncle Rock's LT back in July. Fun was had by all. :)

[Steve_R]

Not that I've got a lot of room to talk since I bought my bike used with everything on it. But IMHO, upgrade lighting first to HID and second upgrade shocks to either Wilbers or Ohlins. You can't go wrong either way.

[bmwrubbercow]

Thanks for responses. I reallly like the idea of the tech session. Steve, you think I could get this done with some of your friends you mentioned? Would not want to impose but sounds like a great idea for the receipent at least! Hesitant to ask as I really don't know any of you.

Tom

[Steve_R]

Let me know when you decide what you want to do for shocks. If nothing else, I'll ride over to Birmingham and give you a hand. We'll just need to make sure we have torque wrenches available.

[bmwrubbercow]

Let me know when you decide what you want to do for shocks. If nothing else, I'll ride over to Birmingham and give you a hand. We'll just need to make sure we have torque wrenches available.


Hey you sure? Sounds like a big job to me. But..........great, you bet I will. Interested in the upgraded cables too. Will talk to dealer to see if I can wrangle BMW into at least some warranty assistance on that.

I will watch the SE site for the next tech day over near you. Perhaps I can ride over and learn something. Hey, I think I am going to make some good friends with this group!

Tom

[messenger13]

Let me know when you decide what you want to do for shocks. If nothing else, I'll ride over to Birmingham and give you a hand. We'll just need to make sure we have torque wrenches available.Tom Gallo musta taught you well. Otherwise you woulda done yours at home. :D

Torque wrenches?! For a shock job? Oh to be a fly... http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/lurker.gif

[Steve_R]

Tom Gallo musta taught you well. Otherwise you woulda done yours at home. :D

Torque wrenches?! For a shock job? Oh to be a fly... http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/lurker.gifI did do mine at home by myself with only one phone call to Grif about getting the front shock off. And as for moving suspension parts, I'll torque it to specs whether you like it or not.

[bmwrubbercow]

I did do mine at home by myself with only one phone call to Grif about getting the front shock off. And as for moving suspension parts, I'll torque it to specs whether you like it or not.

I'm with you Steve. Learned along time ago that I could over torque virtually anything. And always with disastrous results.

Tom :o

[NOGILLS2]

Tom, You said you dont know us. Then a perfect excuse for a tech session, you will get work done and meet us. You will be shocked, pardon the pun! I guarantee you will make friends that you wont forget. I have travelled to Griffs and we had 29 guys show up and many assisted by moral support and several had dirty hands. Eats were superb! I have traveled to Florida to "the Purple Aire Llama farm" and met Rich Jamison and Dave Dragon, Dave taught me how to do 6K service and we remain friends today and fod was great. There were many others present also like Lynn Keen.

I would encourage you to either host or request one. You wont soon forget it! Also a good excuse for a trip, I have wanted to attend Howards tech session about 1K miles away, maybe you might call me crazy, but it is fun nonetheless!!

[Steve_R]

Tom, You said you dont know us. Then a perfect excuse for a tech session, you will get work done and meet us. You will be shocked, pardon the pun! I guarantee you will make friends that you wont forget. I have travelled to Griffs and we had 29 guys show up and many assisted by moral support and several had dirty hands. Eats were superb! I have traveled to Florida to "the Purple Aire Llama farm" and met Rich Jamison and Dave Dragon, Dave taught me how to do 6K service and we remain friends today and fod was great. There were many others present also like Lynn Keen.

I would encourage you to either host or request one. You wont soon forget it! Also a good excuse for a trip, I have wanted to attend Howards tech session about 1K miles away, maybe you might call me crazy, but it is fun nonetheless!!

But nobody else gets as much time off as you do, Captain. ;) :)

[bmwrubbercow]

Tom, You said you dont know us. Then a perfect excuse for a tech session, you will get work done and meet us. You will be shocked, pardon the pun! I guarantee you will make friends that you wont forget. I have travelled to Griffs and we had 29 guys show up and many assisted by moral support and several had dirty hands. Eats were superb! I have traveled to Florida to "the Purple Aire Llama farm" and met Rich Jamison and Dave Dragon, Dave taught me how to do 6K service and we remain friends today and fod was great. There were many others present also like Lynn Keen.

I would encourage you to either host or request one. You wont soon forget it! Also a good excuse for a trip, I have wanted to attend Howards tech session about 1K miles away, maybe you might call me crazy, but it is fun nonetheless!!


Well, I am damn sure starting to feel like I know all of you! And the feeling is great.

This recent CCR was our first. We have had the LT since 3/05, but haven't met too many folks riding them until recently. I do of course know a few, primarily fellow members of the BMWMOAL (BMW MOA of Alabama, a large and old club). If any local tech sessions are going on, I am unaware of it. But I would welcome the opportunity to visit one (self-employed so not too much time for long trip) if not too far away. And, I sure would like to get the throttle up grade done and new shocks. My degree of mechanical knowledge is pretty much limited to oil changes, and airhead tuning, but I am interested in learning more. Just never have found the right folks to teach me--maybe that's about to change.

All of you have made me feel extremely welcome to the group--I wish I could have met more folks at Chateau Elan. Did make some great friends there though.

Thanks to all who have already given me a great deal of know-how from this and previous posts I have made.

Tom

[2Wheelroadtrip]

Hi Tom,

I have an alternate suggestion. I found that 2 up loaded with about as much weight as you carry, I have the same problem with the front end bottoming out. I backed off the rear shock pre-load to about half way and there doesn't seem to be the weight transfer to the front wheel. The ride is much improved and the handling is great. This is the setting we also use when we have the camper hooked on the back. I have to adjust it almost all the way to minimum when I use it to commute for the smoothest ride. I set it up a little if I am going to do some spirited riding with my friends. I have 14k on the stock shocks. Good luck with whatever you try. My idea is the cheapest :rotf:

[bmwrubbercow]

[QU :) OTE=2Wheelroadtrip]Hi Tom,

I have an alternate suggestion. I found that 2 up loaded with about as much weight as you carry, I have the same problem with the front end bottoming out. I backed off the rear shock pre-load to about half way and there doesn't seem to be the weight transfer to the front wheel. The ride is much improved and the handling is great. This is the setting we also use when we have the camper hooked on the back. I have to adjust it almost all the way to minimum when I use it to commute for the smoothest ride. I set it up a little if I am going to do some spirited riding with my friends. I have 14k on the stock shocks. Good luck with whatever you try. My idea is the cheapest :rotf:[/QUOTE]

Hi Barney, Thanks for the suggestions. I will try them but I don't think that will be the answer for me. I come from a more sports riding background and am used to and like a stiff handling bike. I have tried the rear shock from very soft to about 50% solo and find the ride mushy on other than freeway rides. Actually, the bike handles very well with the rear shock fully cranked down to stiff, provided that I am solo with no luggage. Part of that is my riding style and part is the worn shocks. BMW shocks historically are soft from the factory and are not known for longivity. When we went from factory (not worn out just factory) shocks to Ohlins on my GS the change was almost beyond description. What a ride! Like on a monorail ! Many would say its too stiff, but a mushy ride will not handle well in the twisties. To each his own. Thanks again,

Tom :)

[wardenross]

My .02;

Traveller's shocks were toast at 7000 miles after thrashing through Deal's Gap and some Tennessee, Georgia hills on a trip.

I'm still riding with them, but the back shock is sooooo bad I now have to tip-toe in the twisties.

[jayz9705]

But nobody else gets as much time off as you do, Captain. ;) :)



Wait just a durn'd minute, there, Bubba!!!



I got all the time off Gilda lets me have!!:o

[bmwrubbercow]

My .02;

Traveller's shocks were toast at 7000 miles after thrashing through Deal's Gap and some Tennessee, Georgia hills on a trip.

I'm still riding with them, but the back shock is sooooo bad I now have to tip-toe in the twisties.


Thats just where I was last week up there. I'm OK on interstate and main roads, but when the tough gets going the bike turns into a pig..........

[drmajor]

Wilbers------!
Call Klause and tell him:
1. Your weight
2. Wife's weight
3. Weight of gear
4. How aggreassive you ride
5. Wether you want the bike raised/lowered.

I did this with only 7,000 miles on the 2003 stock shocks-----NO GOING BACK!!!!

We used to bottom out on the center stand in the mountains and hit bottom going over the driveway entrance. Not to mention that the bike just didn't want to take the curves of NC any more. It was so unhappy, we just didn't ride it much.

Put the Wilbers on, and now we are all smiles..! I can easily go through Deals Gap or whatever- no scraping the center stand--some times the pegs, but more likely my size 14 boot. I typically can turn into the corners and wear the tire out to the chicken strip..no problem.

Weight-- wife and I are 430.
Tire pressure - 42/48
Tires- Presently Bridgestone 020 Bias.

Tire issues- I got 13,500 out of the Metz 880,but they started making noise at 7,000, and a lot of noise at 9,000 and on 70 mph sweepers, the bike would shake slightly due to the cupping.

2nd set- Avon 45 front and Bridgestone 020 radial rear. WONDERFUL in the mountains!!!!! Got a nail in the rear @ 2000, plugged it and went on to Daytona Bike Week. Replaced with 020 Radial again, but this one cooked on us on Deals Gap. We got to the bottom and everyone around us smelled burnt rubber...it was the rear tire. It grew so much, that it rubbed off the inside rib of the swing arm.

Replaced with 3rd 020 radial... It also cooked on Deals Gap and Hwy NC 28. raised the pressure to 50 psi and that helped.

Bridgestone just replaced the entire set with 020 Biased. They ride nice- not as nice as the Avon/Bridgeston combo. I haven't been back to Deals Gap since, but they seem to be wearing good.

Anyway, our weight and driving style mandate good shocks and tires. Call Klause. He knows his stuff and the shocks come into you set up- no hassles. They will be a littel stiff for 1st 3-700 miles till they settle in.

You won't believe how well the LT handles till you try them.!

[bmwrubbercow]

Wilbers------!
Call Klause and tell him:
1. Your weight
2. Wife's weight
3. Weight of gear
4. How aggreassive you ride
5. Wether you want the bike raised/lowered.

I did this with only 7,000 miles on the 2003 stock shocks-----NO GOING BACK!!!!

We used to bottom out on the center stand in the mountains and hit bottom going over the driveway entrance. Not to mention that the bike just didn't want to take the curves of NC any more. It was so unhappy, we just didn't ride it much.

Put the Wilbers on, and now we are all smiles..! I can easily go through Deals Gap or whatever- no scraping the center stand--some times the pegs, but more likely my size 14 boot. I typically can turn into the corners and wear the tire out to the chicken strip..no problem.

Weight-- wife and I are 430.
Tire pressure - 42/48
Tires- Presently Bridgestone 020 Bias.

Tire issues- I got 13,500 out of the Metz 880,but they started making noise at 7,000, and a lot of noise at 9,000 and on 70 mph sweepers, the bike would shake slightly due to the cupping.

2nd set- Avon 45 front and Bridgestone 020 radial rear. WONDERFUL in the mountains!!!!! Got a nail in the rear @ 2000, plugged it and went on to Daytona Bike Week. Replaced with 020 Radial again, but this one cooked on us on Deals Gap. We got to the bottom and everyone around us smelled burnt rubber...it was the rear tire. It grew so much, that it rubbed off the inside rib of the swing arm.

Replaced with 3rd 020 radial... It also cooked on Deals Gap and Hwy NC 28. raised the pressure to 50 psi and that helped.

Bridgestone just replaced the entire set with 020 Biased. They ride nice- not as nice as the Avon/Bridgeston combo. I haven't been back to Deals Gap since, but they seem to be wearing good.

Anyway, our weight and driving style mandate good shocks and tires. Call Klause. He knows his stuff and the shocks come into you set up- no hassles. They will be a littel stiff for 1st 3-700 miles till they settle in.

You won't believe how well the LT handles till you try them.!

Wow David. Now that is an informative post! Lots of info. And except for the shoe size, we are very similar in size, weight and apparent riding style.

Regarding shocks:

I am leaning toward the Wilber, frankly because of comments you and others have made about being able to talk to Klaus. When we rebuilt the Ohlins on my GS, I had to give all info to my dealer who delt directly with them..I could not talk to them myself. Also the rebuild cost was much more than the Wilber rebuild costs I have read about on these posts. Wonder how much the dealer got out of it???

Apparently I could deal directly with Klaus??



Regarding Tires:

I replaced the original 880s at 12K with a new set of same. Sorry for that I think. Have 4500 miles on them now and they are already starting to howl when laid over in curve. No noticable cupping yet, have tried to keep pressures up but there is noticable wear at least on rear tire, which I assume is reasonable considering the miles and agressive riding.

Very interested in your tire combinations and experience. Had about decided to go with BS Battle Axes next set--unsure whet her radials or bias would be best, assume bias based on your comments.? Comments?

Also comment on the Avons as a set and the BS Avon combo! Have heard interesting things on this and would like more info.

Want reasonable milage but am willing to give up some milage for sticky feel and need a good rain tire here in the southeast.


Thanks,

Tom

[meese]

Tires, again. :)

Generally speaking, ME880s get great mileage but make the bike feel slightly sluggish and have a bit less traction especially in the wet. BT020 Bias get good mileage, good feel (handling), and good traction in all conditions. BT020 Radials get decent mileage, great feel, and great traction. Avon Radials get good mileage, great feel in the front and less feel from the rear, and good traction.

To me, the Avon Radial front / BT020 Radial rear is the best combo for sportier (OK, aggressive :)) riding. The Radials make the bike feel a lot lighter. The front tire has an aggressive profile that allows the LT to turn into corners effortlessly, and the rear has excellent traction for powering out of the corners. The front Avon will last about as much as two rear BT020s. Some people have had trouble with the BT020 Radial rears delaminating near the end of their life (myself included), but we've also seen ME880s fail.

My second choice is the BT020 Bias pair. They do everything well (feel, mileage, traction), but nothing spectacularly. But they get better mileage than the rear BT020 Radial, and so are better suited for longer trips or if you just don't like to change tires as often.

But that's just my experience after going through two or more sets of each of the options. Each rider has to decide what's most important to them and then go with which tires work best for those conditions. As always, YMMV greatly.

Oh, and aftermarket shocks make a huge difference, too. The stock shocks were like "BUMP", and the Ohlins were more like "by the way, there was a bump back there". Much smoother and more controlled overall.

[bmwrubbercow]

Ken, I appreciate the detailed comments. I will of course wear the current ME 880s out first, but I think I will try the Avon/BS combo several of you have raved about.

New shocks and up dated throttle assembly and cables are for now the items of immediate interest. Far as I am concerned, they are shot right now.

Tom