Terrorists forcing WW III...your thoughts?

[hawg]

Just to break the boredom somewhat, I was wondering what you guys thought about the world-wide terrorist threat. Most recently, Al Qaeda has called for all muslims to "rise-up".

Are we entering World War III based on religious beliefs? :confused:

[cfell]

No, we're entering it based upon the perversion of religion.

Here's what I mean. I am pro-life, but I am against those who firebomb Murder Facilities (abortion clinics).

[bigbear]

What War hasn't been based around religious beliefs or freedom???

[tmgs]

Just to break the boredom somewhat, I was wondering what you guys thought about the world-wide terrorist threat. Most recently, Al Qaeda has called for all muslims to "rise-up".

Are we entering World War III based on religious beliefs? :confused:


I ahve not seen a TV since we moved in the new place although someone did say there was some war gettin going over there again,

Tom

[dshealey]

In my opinion if the great majority of the Muslim community does not rise up and take care of their small extremly radical groups themselves, then it could develop into Muslims against -------Everybody Else. Yes, World War III.

[starky]

Hate to post such a negative, but, unfortunately I was just saying to some friends that IMO we've already begun WW!!!, however, it is a little hard to see it in all of it's enormity just yet because it is evolving slowly BUT SURELY as we can see for all of the activity and increasing hot spots around the world.
Check out debka.com to often get some early breaking info and analysis on the middle east. The al queda 2nd in command (?) refers to the ZIONISTS and the CRUSADERS as the enemy and vows to stop only when territory from Spain to Iraq is in Muslim control.
This is just further fuel for the wild fires that continue to fan the flames of this growing malaise.
Wish it weren't so , but, better to be a realist and prepare (as the Western world) to take the necessary steps to keep our world safe.

JHS

[JCabranes]

Hate to post such a negative, but, unfortunately I was just saying to some friends that IMO we've already begun WW!!!, however, it is a little hard to see it in all of it's enormity just yet because it is evolving slowly BUT SURELY as we can see for all of the activity and increasing hot spots around the world.
Check out debka.com to often get some early breaking info and analysis on the middle east. The al queda 2nd in command (?) refers to the ZIONISTS and the CRUSADERS as the enemy and vows to stop only when territory from Spain to Iraq is in Muslim control.
This is just further fuel for the wild fires that continue to fan the flames of this growing malaise.
Wish it weren't so , but, better to be a realist and prepare (as the Western world) to take the necessary steps to keep our world safe.

JHS

Spain to Iraq... hmmm I hadn't heard that but it doesn't surprise me. Frankly, they won't stop until they can impose their will on all of us. So I view this as kill or be killed. What I am about to say may sound self-loathing but it isn't. My family can trace its roots to Spain. I have, for most of my 46 years of life been very proud of my Spanish heritage... right up until Spain ran away from its commitment in Iraq after the train bombings. Their cowardice is an affront to all of us of Spanish heritage but the entire civilized world. So after they hiked up their skirts and ran away these Al-Queda POS now claim Spain... so much for appeasement. So we're back to kill or be killed in a fight for world domination. This really is good against evil but it worries me that most people don't see it that way. Let's just hope it won't take another 9/11 type disaster for people to finally get the message.

[NM99K12LT]

It's like turning the clock back a couple of centuries - most people thought the crusades were over - maybe not. I spent 3 months in Saudi Arabia in the mid '80s and found it to be one of the most eye opening experiences of my life. The most common, mundane things we take for granted are non-existent in large parts of the world. It is no exaggeration to state that there are places on this earth where time (and progress) has stood still for quite a long period of time.

The fundamental truth that a lot of westerners seem to have a hard time grasping is that there will be no "political solution" or "negotiated settlement" to this tragic mess. They are fully engaged in a war with western civilization - we just don't realize or accept that we are in fact at war. They are not fighting to acquire land, money or resources. We find ourselves engaged with an enemy (and make no mistake about it - they are our enemy) that reviles our life style, mores and beliefs. That is a very difficult position to negotiate from and I fear we are literally in "a fight to the death".

God bless America and God bless the members and families of our military who will once again bear the greatest burden of war.

[eljeffe]

Every time I hear stuff like "oh my God, it's WWIII" or someone starts talking about "Revelations and the end of the world", I just go back to this little ditty made famous by the Kingston Trio

"They're rioting in Africa. They're starving in Spain. There's hurricanes in Florida and Texas needs rain.
The whole world is festering with unhappy souls. The French hate the Germans. The Germans hate the Poles.
Italians hate Yugoslavs. South Africans hate the Dutch and I don't like anybody very much!
But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud for man's been endowed with a mushroom shaped cloud.
And we know for certain that some lovely day someone will set the spark off and we will all be blown away.
They're rioting in Africa. There's strife in Iran. What nature doesn't do to us will be done by our fellow man."

Written in 1953, recorded by the Kingston Trio in 1959.

[Daman858]

The invasion of Iraq was done without even a thought to rule one and that is the rule of unintended consequences.

I have said it before......

[NM99K12LT]

I believe the "unintended consequences" of inaction or response to:

The American hostages in Iran
The first bombing of the World Trade Center
The bombing of the US Marine barracks
The bombing of the USS Cole
and others I am unable to recite from memory just now
serve to embolden the terrorist groups and rogue states that support them and reinforce their perception that western civilization is weak, lazy and without resolve.

However, I could be wrong as I have no political experience...but I do ride an LT :)

[gunny]

I hope not

Gunny
American-Swiss Infidel

[tdraper]

>>This is a must read -- it's short but Very informative!
>>
>>The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per
>>capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!
>>Allah or Jesus? by Rick Mathes
>>
>>
>>Last month I attended my annual training session that's
>>required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.
>>
>>During the training session there was a presentation by
>>three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant
>>and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.
>>
>>I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam
>>had to say.
>>
>>The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam
>>complete with a video. After the presentations, time was
>>provided for questions and answers.
>>
>>When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam
>>and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I
>>understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have
>>declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the
>>world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command
>>to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If
>>that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"
>>
>>There was no disagreement with my statements and without
>>hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"
>>I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight.
>>
>>All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone
>>who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"
>>The ___expression on his face changed from one of authority
>>and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten
>>caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
>>
>>He sheepishly replied, "Yes."
>>
>>I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying
>>to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill
>>those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to
>>do the same in order to go to Heaven!"
>>
>>The Imam was speechless.
>>
>>I continued, "I also have a problem with being your
>>friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your
>>followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you
>>rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to
>>go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I
>>am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"
>>You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his
>>head in shame.
>>
>>Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the
>>"Diversification" training seminar were not happy with
>>Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the
>>truth about the Muslim's beliefs.
>>
>>I think everyone in the US should be required to read
>>this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media,
>>and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.
>>Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is
>> true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known
>>leader in prison ministry
>

[Ted]

>>This is a must read -- it's short but Very informative!
>

...and, unfortunately false. Sorry!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

[baurcorp]

If it isn't apparent to people by now.......... we're not paying attention!
We all need to take a real good look at what is truly being said around the world.
The actions of theocratic nations against the rest of the world is brazen' to put it mildly. Americans who have never been abroad seem to think the world lives and thinks like we do. How arrogant!!!!! We have become so foolish to think everyone else wants to be like "us". We as Americans love our country and our lifestyle but we're it! Other nations love there country, otherwise they'd live HERE!!!!!!!!! We need to learn HISTORY so we won't be doomed to repeat it!

[desertlizard]

I'd say fortunately false, but still false.

Dale White

[C. Buckman]

I received this in my mail today, ran it by Snopes & it appears to be truthful.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/wakeup.asp

America WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign US embassy set the stage for the events to follow for the next 23 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Viet Nam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism. America's military had been decimated and downsized / right sized since the end of the Viet Nam war. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more. Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut. 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more. Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber. The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid. Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the Snooze Alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US soil is continually attacked. Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed. The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259. America wants to treat these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war ... the Wake Up alarm is louder and louder.

The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women. A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500.

The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively. They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision, they kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high official in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979. The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough.

America has to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to hit the Snooze Button again and roll over and go back to sleep. We have to make the terrorists know that in the words of Admiral Yamamoto after the attack on Pearl Harbor "that all they have done is to awaken a sleeping giant."

Thank you very much.

Dan Ouimette

A lot of history here to think about!

[gulfxray]

No, we're entering it based upon the perversion of religion.


Well Said... I would just add a 's' to religion...

[petepeterson]

CBUCKMAN..... You got it exactly right!!

There are allot of people who have their heads in the sand in this country...
WWIII has started and its headed this way,, I have the gear I need to protect mine and when the shit hits the fan I can hear the screams from the peace and love community when they get slaughtered cause they gave up their guns....
And its so funny because most of the there ain't no God crowd is the no gun crowd, when they die they are going to find out they were wrong twice!!! :D

Was over there twice, spent the first half of 1983 in a sandbagged tent at the Beirut airport.. 1979 was the year it started, no telling how long it will last... This is my one and only post on this thread so all I will say is be ready when its time...........Regards Pete

[tmgs]

Spain to Iraq... hmmm I hadn't heard that but it doesn't surprise me. Frankly, they won't stop until they can impose their will on all of us. So I view this as kill or be killed. What I am about to say may sound self-loathing but it isn't. My family can trace its roots to Spain. I have, for most of my 46 years of life been very proud of my Spanish heritage... right up until Spain ran away from its commitment in Iraq after the train bombings. Their cowardice is an affront to all of us of Spanish heritage but the entire civilized world. So after they hiked up their skirts and ran away these Al-Queda POS now claim Spain... so much for appeasement. So we're back to kill or be killed in a fight for world domination. This really is good against evil but it worries me that most people don't see it that way. Let's just hope it won't take another 9/11 type disaster for people to finally get the message.

Sounds out right Harsh

but True

[dshealey]

------------------
And its so funny because most of the there ain't no God crowd is the no gun crowd, -----------------..Regards Pete

How do you get that perception? Mine has been the opposite.

[tmgs]

How do you get that perception? Mine has been the opposite.

see I've got just the oppisite than you, everyone I know that is into church has no problem with people owning guns of any type. but to be fair, the anti god types really aren't that bad, In Fact I think the media takes a few dozen people that are really anti gun and makes it out like the whole darn country is against guns. i don't personally know any one that is flat anti gun and wants to take them away.

[Ted]

I'd say fortunately false, but still false.

Dale White

Just to clarify - my "unfortunately" referred to the fact that tdraper posted something determined to be false, rather than my agreement or disagreement with its content.

[RT_COOP]

Lots of good comments here.

WWIII or not, my concern is that at this point in time are during this possible global crisis, the US is being headed by a largely incompetent and self-serving bunch.

I was thinking as we approach the 5th anniversary of the so-called "9_11", we are still in the thick of an botched and unrelated Iraq invasion, Afganistan is teetering and Osama-been-bombin' is still at large. No intended knocks to our military as their has been daily untold heroics on the ground.

However if one thinks that 5 years after Pearl Harbor, American forces were deployed successfully to wipe out 2 global empires, dispose of Hitler and initiate the most successfully nation building in the form of the Marshall Plan, it makes you wonder why fate or democracy or (if you so believe) god has given us this current crop of Bozos to steer us through these treacherous waters.

[RT_COOP]

America has to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has changed forever. ."


I don't think I would call the deployment of our armed forces in IRAQ as 'in bed, snoozing". We're outta bed to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The problem is incompetent leadership that, given the most powerful armed services and intelligence systems that the world has ever seen, doesn't know how to shoot straight.

I guess this now means I'm on some NSA watchlist.

[Daman858]

My prior comments about the rule of unintended consequences was certainly not meant to imply that we should NOT have acted against terrorism. The Pogo cartoon (my dear late father's favorite) says that we are our own worst enemy because, in these cases, we did not do anything about the prior attacks on our soil, on our ship, on our troops and on our sovereign ground (the embassies). We had OBL in our sites and we let him slide!
We are politicizing a war on terrorism that we must fight and win and it won't be pretty.

[myk_edwards]

the US is being headed by a largely incompetent and self-serving bunch.

it's not just the US with leadership problems, Our leaders in the UK appear to be unable to see or do anything of any real use, probably because they have their heads so far up the US leaderships a$$es, it's difficult for them to know what is going on in the world.

[tmgs]

Lots of good comments here.

WWIII or not, my concern is that at this point in time are during this possible global crisis, the US is being headed by a largely incompetent and self-serving bunch.

I was thinking as we approach the 5th anniversary of the so-called "9_11", we are still in the thick of an botched and unrelated Iraq invasion, Afganistan is teetering and Osama-been-bombin' is still at large. No intended knocks to our military as their has been daily untold heroics on the ground.

However if one thinks that 5 years after Pearl Harbor, American forces were deployed successfully to wipe out 2 global empires, dispose of Hitler and initiate the most successfully nation building in the form of the Marshall Plan, it makes you wonder why fate or democracy or (if you so believe) god has given us this current crop of Bozos to steer us through these treacherous waters.

damn what a crock, you really think it's all the presidents fault if so you are blind! or just flat led by the idiot media.

I tire of this president bashing, it's gotten old.

[tmgs]

I received this in my mail today, ran it by Snopes & it appears to be truthful.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/wakeup.asp

America WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign US embassy set the stage for the events to follow for the next 23 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Viet Nam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism. America's military had been decimated and downsized / right sized since the end of the Viet Nam war. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more. Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut. 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more. Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber. The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid. Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the Snooze Alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US soil is continually attacked. Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed. The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259. America wants to treat these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war ... the Wake Up alarm is louder and louder.

The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women. A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500.

The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively. They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision, they kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high official in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979. The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough.

America has to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to hit the Snooze Button again and roll over and go back to sleep. We have to make the terrorists know that in the words of Admiral Yamamoto after the attack on Pearl Harbor "that all they have done is to awaken a sleeping giant."

Thank you very much.

Dan Ouimette

A lot of history here to think about!


the Democrats will never let this coutnry kick serious ass again, it's a crying shame too.

there should have been no warning we were going into Iraq Aftrashistan or any other place we invade, this country is too politically correct . they drew our blood many p[laces and we sat on our rear end.

[NM99K12LT]

Lots of good comments here. And a fair dose of ignorance which is defined as 1. lack of knowledge and 2. unawareness of something, often of something important.

WWIII or not, my concern is that at this point in time are during this possible global crisis, the US is being headed by a largely incompetent and self-serving bunch. Gee...if only Gore and the Democrats were in control...or maybe if previous "better" administrations had done...well ANYTHING regarding the multiple previous attacks on this country.

I was thinking as we approach the 5th anniversary of the so-called "9_11", we are still in the thick of an botched and unrelated Iraq invasion, Afganistan is teetering and Osama-been-bombin' is still at large. No intended knocks to our military as their has been daily untold heroics on the ground. I believe it is so called because that is the date of the largest loss of U.S. CIVILIAN life due to an obscene act of terror. I also believe that our achievements so far are extrordinary given the total lack of support, not to mention outright collusion with our enemies by the gutless EU and UN.

However if one thinks that 5 years after Pearl Harbor, American forces were deployed successfully to wipe out 2 global empires, dispose of Hitler and initiate the most successfully nation building in the form of the Marshall Plan, it makes you wonder why fate or democracy or (if you so believe) god has given us this current crop of Bozos to steer us through these treacherous waters. Hmm...clearly identified enemy operating from a well know base of operations vs. widely scattered terrorist groups using civilian populations to shield their operations. Might we be able to fathom a guess as to the reaction were President Bush to CARPET BOMB & NUKE Iran, Syria and Iraq? AND...how many years did it take to win and rebuild?...I think it was probably more than 3 years. And yes it does appear that throughout history, providence has indeed provided the right individual at the right time to resolutely defend humanity against a horrific enemy.

[NM99K12LT]

I don't think I would call the deployment of our armed forces in IRAQ as 'in bed, snoozing". We're outta bed to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The problem is incompetent leadership that, given the most powerful armed services and intelligence systems that the world has ever seen, doesn't know how to shoot straight.

I guess this now means I'm on some NSA watchlist.


Not to worry, the previous administration so decimated the budgets and morale of the military and intelligence agencies that it will be years before they are truly effective again.

[NM99K12LT]

it's not just the US with leadership problems, Our leaders in the UK appear to be unable to see or do anything of any real use, probably because they have their heads so far up the US leaderships a$$es, it's difficult for them to know what is going on in the world.

Mercifully you have the EU and UN to provide the stalwart leadership you seek.

[RT_COOP]

Not to worry, the previous administration so decimated the budgets and morale of the military and intelligence agencies that it will be years before they are truly effective again.

My position isn't political. If the democrats were in power right now and this crap was going on, I'd be singing the same tune. I had plenty to complain about with Clinton. We've just seen better more effective leaders than we have right now. Please 'splain me how these guys are great and effective and perhaps my ignorance will be lifted.

[myk_edwards]

Mercifully you have the EU and UN to provide the stalwart leadership you seek.

I can only assume you're joking! :-) <---basic smiley's for me!

well....! there UE are the people who are trying to ban all sorts of stuff in the UK or make us change it's name for some stupid reason like some idiot would believe baby lotion is made from babies, like sunflower oil is from sunflowers., I wouldn't be suprised if they are the folks that stopped a marathon bar being called that, and renamed it snickers, and bananas have to have a certain bend in them to be allowed. The whole political system is a crock of $hit, and the older I get the more radical my views become (give me a gun - ..no give me lots of guns). I would happily line then all up against a wall and shoot them, then tell the next lot who come to power, they have three years to start to make a difference, or we will line them up against the wall and dispatch them too.

Politics, and religion.... Ahhh! thank the (choose your god here) that we still have our LT's, well we do at least, but Joe on the other hand now has another ride, and from what I've been seeing on the forum, he only works about 3 hours a week, lucky old Joe.

Hi Joe, How you doing? Hope you're enjoys the trip away with the family. My other half is in Germany for 3 days at a Robbie Williams concert, Well somebody has to go!

[NM99K12LT]

My position isn't political. If the democrats were in power right now and this crap was going on, I'd be singing the same tune. I had plenty to complain about with Clinton. We've just seen better more effective leaders than we have right now. Please 'splain me how these guys are great and effective and perhaps my ignorance will be lifted.

I dare say if the Democrats were in power now we all would be on mats facing Mecca several times a day by now. Additionally, Clinton in many regards is at least partially responsible for the mess that Bush is having to deal with by default. My concern is primarily with never hearing an alternative plan - just complaining about what is and is not being done. I do believe we are fortunate to have a President who understands the threat and is not afraid to confront it. That being said, the Republicans have sorely failed with regards to fiscal responsibility and border security. I am curious as to whom you would list as "better and more effective leaders than we have right now".

Again, I would have to assert that given the lack of support from the international community, the opposing party and vast segments of our national media in confronting this threat that the current administration has been remarkably effective - especially when compared to other campaigns that this country has undertaken.

Oh well...I am not a political expert...but I did ride a LT last night :D

[NM99K12LT]

I can only assume you're joking! :-) <---basic smiley's for me!

well....! there UE are the people who are trying to ban all sorts of stuff in the UK or make us change it's name for some stupid reason like some idiot would believe baby lotion is made from babies, like sunflower oil is from sunflowers., I wouldn't be suprised if they are the folks that stopped a marathon bar being called that, and renamed it snickers, and bananas have to have a certain bend in them to be allowed. The whole political system is a crock of $hit, and the older I get the more radical my views become (give me a gun - ..no give me lots of guns). I would happily line then all up against a wall and shoot them, then tell the next lot who come to power, they have three years to start to make a difference, or we will line them up against the wall and dispatch them too.

Politics, and religion.... Ahhh! thank the (choose your god here) that we still have our LT's, well we do at least, but Joe on the other hand now has another ride, and from what I've been seeing on the forum, he only works about 3 hours a week, lucky old Joe.

Hi Joe, How you doing? Hope you're enjoys the trip away with the family. My other half is in Germany for 3 days at a Robbie Williams concert, Well somebody has to go!
Definitely joking - I consider us to be fortunate that the UK leadership has not shed its spine as has the majority of the EU and UN

[gunny]

see I've got just the oppisite than you, everyone I know that is into church has no problem with people owning guns of any type. but to be fair, the anti god types really aren't that bad, In Fact I think the media takes a few dozen people that are really anti gun and makes it out like the whole darn country is against guns. i don't personally know any one that is flat anti gun and wants to take them away.
I know of only one person who is really truely anti-gun. She's also the flakiest person I know.

[UncleRock]

I think they have started WWIII
Only differance is who the terrorists are>
I think the US Goverment is the largest Terrorist Org in the world (Hold on my Bush Bird Flu is acting up, have to get some Rumsfeld owned Tami-flu)
They come on the news saying Israel has a right to defend itself against invaders. Does't Iraq and Afganistan have the same right.
I am in total distrust of this goverment Not Republican or Democrat, the system that they have set up within.
Our founding father left their homes and jobs, did sevice to this great land for free. Now we have career politicians that have never had a real job their entire lives.
WMD=Words of Mass Deception
Rock

[dshealey]

Definitely joking - I consider us to be fortunate that the UK leadership has not shed its spine as has the majority of the EU and UN

The UN certainly has become a costly paper tiger, and I don't see how the EU is any good for the UK!

Certainly the UK and the US have the most common interests, not to mention the language and much of the US heritage. We just got bigger. :D

I think we have to stick together though, no matter the differences in our governments. The US likely could stand alone due to size, but the UK is so small in comparison, and much nearer possible future enemies. Of course it is like the Cuban crisis here in the past, we did not have a missle that could hit that close! :D

[zgmpl]

i think so becose of the hisballa end the iran end siria together they just wond to destroy israel end usa you can just think abaut siting evning front of tv end a rokeet fell dowen on your home they ara fanatik moslems the life for them is like a dog its meens nothing

[arwadowd]

Hey folks-
This ain't about Bill of the oft falling pants or even George the horribly misguided. It is not about property or resources or one tribe gettin' the other tribes women. These guys don't want your stuff. They will not come over here to snag your food or cool car or whatever. This is what makes it so hard for us to understand. They will not negeotiate because "lose/lose" beats "win/win". Either become one with them or die. History is unfortunatly full of extremist insanity.

The idea that Israel has used disproportionate force is absurd. Of course they have. Sparingly, with as much precision as possible. Such restraint would be inconceiveable any where else in the world. This equalization should not be bullet for bullet but dogma for dogma/strategy for strategy. A quick and decisive action by the West in 1939 mightr have stopped WW11. Such a move might take us to the brink or it might get Syria and Iran to step back from their proxy gangsters. The only ones that could have pulled the plug on this mess were the Lebonese. A very sticky situation and one that will require balls on a grand scale. I have not seen evidence making this more than wishful thinking.

I do not know where we go from here. I am very concerned that I find myself wishing for a violent and DECISIVE action. I know that you cannot allow a gang/whatever the slightest foothold. I know you cannot fight a disease with almost enough medicine. I have become completely intolerant of intolerance.

This make any sense?

Jim

[tmgs]

Hey folks-
This ain't about Bill of the oft falling pants or even George the horribly misguided. It is not about property or resources or one tribe gettin' the other tribes women. These guys don't want your stuff. They will not come over here to snag your food or cool car or whatever. This is what makes it so hard for us to understand. They will not negeotiate because "lose/lose" beats "win/win". Either become one with them or die. History is unfortunatly full of extremist insanity.

The idea that Israel has used disproportionate force is absurd. Of course they have. Sparingly, with as much precision as possible. Such restraint would be inconceiveable any where else in the world. This equalization should not be bullet for bullet but dogma for dogma/strategy for strategy. A quick and decisive action by the West in 1939 mightr have stopped WW11. Such a move might take us to the brink or it might get Syria and Iran to step back from their proxy gangsters. The only ones that could have pulled the plug on this mess were the Lebonese. A very sticky situation and one that will require balls on a grand scale. I have not seen evidence making this more than wishful thinking.

I do not know where we go from here. I am very concerned that I find myself wishing for a violent and DECISIVE action. I know that you cannot allow a gang/whatever the slightest foothold. I know you cannot fight a disease with almost enough medicine. I have become completely intolerant of intolerance.

This make any sense?

Jim


that makes perfect sense

[dshealey]

Hey folks-
This ain't about Bill of the oft falling pants or even George the horribly misguided. It is not about property or resources or one tribe gettin' the other tribes women. These guys don't want your stuff. They will not come over here to snag your food or cool car or whatever. This is what makes it so hard for us to understand. They will not negeotiate because "lose/lose" beats "win/win". Either become one with them or die. History is unfortunatly full of extremist insanity.

The idea that Israel has used disproportionate force is absurd. Of course they have. Sparingly, with as much precision as possible. Such restraint would be inconceiveable any where else in the world. This equalization should not be bullet for bullet but dogma for dogma/strategy for strategy. A quick and decisive action by the West in 1939 mightr have stopped WW11. Such a move might take us to the brink or it might get Syria and Iran to step back from their proxy gangsters. The only ones that could have pulled the plug on this mess were the Lebonese. A very sticky situation and one that will require balls on a grand scale. I have not seen evidence making this more than wishful thinking.

I do not know where we go from here. I am very concerned that I find myself wishing for a violent and DECISIVE action. I know that you cannot allow a gang/whatever the slightest foothold. I know you cannot fight a disease with almost enough medicine. I have become completely intolerant of intolerance.

This make any sense?

Jim

Yep, pretty much my take on the situation(s) at hand. I think we have acted too politically correct, and that Israel is smarter. I really liked the "cannot fight a disease with almost enough medicine" statement!

I also think we are already in WWIII. Just about every country on earth is battling those extremist bastards in some form or another, what else would describe "World" war?