Who's buying all this gas

[Big_E]

I've been working at this refinery for 30 years & have never seen anything like this. Every morning the tankers of every brand are lined up down the highway to fill up at the truck terminal & that's not counting what's going out by barge & pipeline. The higher the price gets, the faster the gas moves out. I am in the deep south, surrounded by refineries & the cheapest price I can find is $2.92 for regular. We are putting out over 150,000 barrels per day of gasoline at just this plant & it is not sitting in storage tanks. No, refinery workers do not get free gas, not even a discount.

[nightcrawler921]

I read somewhere that this past June the US set an all time high for gasoline consumption, 1.5 million gallons of gas per day. The price doesn't seem to be slowing anybody down. However, dollars being spent on gas means dollars taken away from somewhere else.

[mwnahas]

That'd be my wife buying all that gas for the mini-van. I had to hide the gas credit cards! :( I couldn't believe my last gasoline bills. I'm almost exclusively using the bike during the summer. Now I'm running her around on the LT for those one-off "errands".

[meese]

Once they figured out that we'll still pay even if the price doubles or triples, then it was all over. The US uses 10 times the gasoline of any other country. It's embedded in our culture and not about to change any time soon. The only solution is to stay home and buy oil company stock instead.

[hschisler]

One day last week NPR's industry expert said that gasoline would have to be $4.00/gallon before Americans might begin conserving gas or changing their driving habits. :eek:

[hoog62]

One day last week NPR's industry expert said that gasoline would have to be $4.00/gallon before Americans might begin conserving gas or changing their driving habits. :eek:

I remember hearing the same thing about $3/gallon, the first time prices ran up to $2/gallon. The only event that will cause permanent change in driving habits will be dry pumps. Short of that, folks will piss and moan, make excuses why , and when the prices stabilize for a month or so, return to their old ways. I hate how pessimistic that sounds, but self restraint ain't one of America's strong suits.

[messenger13]

Have you ridden down the highway and passed all of those SUVs?! That's who!

[petepeterson]

:mad:
Take the 12 million illegals out of the equation and see if our consumption doesn't drop a little.......Regards Pete

[meese]

:mad:
Take the 12 million illegals out of the equation and see if our consumption doesn't drop a little.......Regards PeteVery little. Assuming they all drive at the same rate as the rest of us, 12 million in a country of almost 300 million is only about 4%. While illegal immigration does have its problems, it's just not a contributing factor here. Vehicles that consistently get under 20 mpg and America's "biggest, best, and me first" attitude is. Now we're paying for that attitude.

[nearmisses]

Thanks Pete! I needed that! but it's really gonna p_ss off some folks here.

[meese]

The problem is that prices "stabilize" higher and higher each time. Consistently raise the price until people scream, then back off slightly and then they think they're getting a good deal. Wait a little while, then repeat.

Regular gas is running around $2.90/gallon here in Oregon now. The next move is to raise it to about $3.30-$3.40, then drop it back to around $3.20. Once they've broken the psychological $3 barrier, then they can begin creeping it up towards the next $4 barrier. It's coming, and there's not too much we can do about it.

Self restraint isn't one of our strong suits, but then again we also seem to have an incredibly short memory, and even shorter attention span.

I have noticed a lot of used car lots stuffed with large trucks and SUVs lately. Maybe some folks are getting it.

[BMWphreak]

The problem is that prices "stabilize" higher and higher each time. Consistently raise the price until people scream, then back off slightly and then they think they're getting a good deal. Wait a little while, then repeat.

Regular gas is running around $2.90/gallon here in Oregon now. The next move is to raise it to about $3.30-$3.40, then drop it back to around $3.20. Once they've broken the psychological $3 barrier, then they can begin creeping it up towards the next $4 barrier. It's coming, and there's not too much we can do about it.

Self restraint isn't one of our strong suits, but then again we also seem to have an incredibly short memory, and even shorter attention span.

I have noticed a lot of used car lots stuffed with large trucks and SUVs lately. Maybe some folks are getting it.

They have already done this in CT. I got a "deal" today at 3.37/gal for 93 octane. (3.14 for regular)

[little_jake]

Have you ridden down the highway and passed all of those SUVs?! That's who!
Have you noticed all the Semi's? They only get like 5 to 6 mpg loaded. My SUV gets 18+. Of course no Semi's not much would get delivered on time.
little jake

[Big_E]

How many people after filling their tank with overpriced gas goes inside & pay over $1 for a 12oz. bottle of water? How much is that a gallon?

[hig4s]

Have you noticed all the Semi's? They only get like 5 to 6 mpg loaded. My SUV gets 18+. Of course no Semi's not much would get delivered on time.
little jake


One locomotive uses 8 times the fuel, creates 12 times the pollution, but moves 100 times the product of a semi. Since Reagan deregulated the trucking industry but did not do the same for the rail industry, trucks have moved a disproportional amount of the nations product compared to their efficiency. It use to be that both trucks and rail had to put out bids days before they moved a load, but since, trucks can come in at the last minute and under cut rail.. Also the fact that most Western produce, (Washington apples, Idaho potatos, California oranges and such) are sold in the East and Eastern produce (Vermont Apples, Michigan potatos, Michigan sugar beets and such) are trucked out West certianly does not help.

Personally I don't think long-haul trucking makes any sense at all.

[zippy_gg]

One day last week NPR's industry expert said that gasoline would have to be $4.00/gallon before Americans might begin conserving gas or changing their driving habits. :eek:I guess some have as we can see by the much larger number of motorcycles on the road since last Spring...

[pkpr1998]

:mad:
Take the 12 million illegals out of the equation and see if our consumption doesn't drop a little.......Regards Pete


They do put a strain on things!

[tmgs]

I remember hearing the same thing about $3/gallon, the first time prices ran up to $2/gallon. The only event that will cause permanent change in driving habits will be dry pumps. Short of that, folks will piss and moan, make excuses why , and when the prices stabilize for a month or so, return to their old ways. I hate how pessimistic that sounds, but self restraint ain't one of America's strong suits.

B I N G O

[tmgs]

:mad:
Take the 12 million illegals out of the equation and see if our consumption doesn't drop a little.......Regards Pete

and watch houses stop being built, farm produce stop being harvested, NO ORANGES! No sod (I hate mowing grass anyhow) and my favorite Strawberries! No not the strawberries <g>

I saw dig that moat around mexico, fill it with thee alligators from FL , send our welfare living over there and take them that are will ing to work and let them come here!

[tmgs]

How many people after filling their tank with overpriced gas goes inside & pay over $1 for a 12oz. bottle of water? How much is that a gallon?

it all depends on where you buy it, i have seen them itty bitty bottles for a buck what 12 oz bottles? sheesh water is higher than gas for sure! is just one reason I have a large camel back on each bike, we try to buy it by the gallon at a store when we stop much cheaper that way and you can use the whole gallon between two large hydration bottles

[hawg]

The problem is that prices "stabilize" higher and higher each time. Consistently raise the price until people scream, then back off slightly and then they think they're getting a good deal. Wait a little while, then repeat.

Regular gas is running around $2.90/gallon here in Oregon now. The next move is to raise it to about $3.30-$3.40, then drop it back to around $3.20. Once they've broken the psychological $3 barrier, then they can begin creeping it up towards the next $4 barrier. It's coming, and there's not too much we can do about it.

Self restraint isn't one of our strong suits, but then again we also seem to have an incredibly short memory, and even shorter attention span.

I have noticed a lot of used car lots stuffed with large trucks and SUVs lately. Maybe some folks are getting it.


Yep, Ken...that's how it's done. This leetle process is also referred to as "Boiling Frogs". :eek:

If you didn't turn up the heat a leetle at the time, the frogs would just simply jump out of the water. Turn it up...lower it...turn it up some more...lower it...and pretty danged soon ya got yerself a boiled frog! :confused: But I don't know what ya do with boiled frogs, though...

[KYchris02]

Gas is cheap!

I'm tired of seeing letters in the paper and hearing people complain about gasoline prices. The truth remains that gasoline is, ounce for ounce, one of the the cheapest liquids Americans "consume." Bottled water is more expensive. I believe it's not until gas prices reach $5 or $10 or $20 per gallon that our local, state, and federal governments will give us real transportation choices. I have traveled across Britian and Western Europe without a car, yet can't get my family safely and efficiently 8 miles on a weekend to downtown Cincy without one.

So as I fill up my SUV at the whopping rate of $3 per gallon and sip my Starbucks coffee at a rate of $130 per gallon, I'll thank the lucky stars I can afford both. In the meantime, I'll hold out hope that someday, someone will figure out a transportation system that will send a few hundred million cars to the junkyard.

[patrick2000]

[QUOTE=KYchris02]Gas is cheap!

I have traveled across Britian and Western Europe without a car, yet can't get my family safely and efficiently 8 miles on a weekend to downtown Cincy without one. [\QUOTE]

That about sums it up. Yes gasoline is cheap in the U.S.,k but our urban and rural systems are designed around the automobile, so we are dependent on it (gas) for survival.

I used to argue that I paid the equivalent of $5.00 for petrol in Ireland in the early 1980s, but now I know my argument was invalid, as it is not a fair comparison. For example,I bought about 3 gallons a week in Ireland and rode a 65mpg Motorcycle . When I moved to Detroit MI in 1986 gas was about $1.00 a gallon; I think you know the rest of the story.

[sanjaun2]

I say raise the fuel prices as high as they want, The bike gets 45mpg and the car gets 48. I just do not like all the profits going to a small group of greedy Bas#@%ds. On the flips side, My boat gets 1.2 MPG on a good day. Last Sunday It cost me $400 just to top off the last 1/3rd tank. Now that bites.

[meese]

But I don't know what ya do with boiled frogs, though...Serve them with your favorite salsa, and a generous amount of Sweet Tea, of course. :)

[blankshot]

I use my bike everyday, or try to, from April-November. The wife uses her bike to commute as well. We are lucky that we work for the same Co so we commute for the winter unless one of us has to stay late. We are also lucky that the store is just across the park from us too. We use our bicycles with a trailer to go shopping. Our gas bill is about $40 per week for the both of us unless we use one of the cars or truck on the weekend. Some things need a truck, dump runs or yard work, or the car to carry the Pug around.

[KMC1]

it's funny that noone has mentioned the amount of fuel being used up by our military - does everyone think it's just a coincidence gas went through the roof as soon as the wars started??? You think your Escape is bad on gas, try filling up a Blackhawk and an Abrams a couple times a week.
We elected a president who's family and friends have made BILLIONS in the oil industry, and again everyone thinks it's just a coincidence?
As long as the economy is able to function so him and his cronies keep getting elected and/or reelected, we will not see a drop in price, nor will we see the readily available technologies employed which would ween us off the black gold.

[tmgs]

it's funny that noone has mentioned the amount of fuel being used up by our military - does everyone think it's just a coincidence gas went through the roof as soon as the wars started??? You think your Escape is bad on gas, try filling up a Blackhawk and an Abrams a couple times a week.
We elected a president who's family and friends have made BILLIONS in the oil industry, and again everyone thinks it's just a coincidence?
As long as the economy is able to function so him and his cronies keep getting elected and/or reelected, we will not see a drop in price, nor will we see the readily available technologies employed which would ween us off the black gold.

and when your BMW breaks down it;s the bush administrations fault too.......

[nightcrawler921]

it's funny that noone has mentioned the amount of fuel being used up by our military - does everyone think it's just a coincidence gas went through the roof as soon as the wars started??? You think your Escape is bad on gas, try filling up a Blackhawk and an Abrams a couple times a week.
We elected a president who's family and friends have made BILLIONS in the oil industry, and again everyone thinks it's just a coincidence?
As long as the economy is able to function so him and his cronies keep getting elected and/or reelected, we will not see a drop in price, nor will we see the readily available technologies employed which would ween us off the black gold.
Did Bush also make China and India oil consumption go up too?

[RT_COOP]

it's funny that noone has mentioned the amount of fuel being used up by our military - does everyone think it's just a coincidence gas went through the roof as soon as the wars started??? You think your Escape is bad on gas, try filling up a Blackhawk and an Abrams a couple times a week.
We elected a president who's family and friends have made BILLIONS in the oil industry, and again everyone thinks it's just a coincidence?
As long as the economy is able to function so him and his cronies keep getting elected and/or reelected, we will not see a drop in price, nor will we see the readily available technologies employed which would ween us off the black gold.

I think you knew what you were doing when you made this post, but be warned, there are actually folks out there who think Bush is a great president - intelligent, gracious, wise, who has a superlative, integrated foreign and domestic policy scheme that best serves the interests of the 'merakin people in ways that will leave America better off than when he came into office. You may raise their ire.[/SARCASM_OFF]

[tmgs]

Did Bush also make China and India oil consumption go up too?


must have, in faqct the democrats would have never let china have the oil in the first place <g>

[tmgs]

I say raise the fuel prices as high as they want, The bike gets 45mpg and the car gets 48. I just do not like all the profits going to a small group of greedy Bas#@%ds. On the flips side, My boat gets 1.2 MPG on a good day. Last Sunday It cost me $400 just to top off the last 1/3rd tank. Now that bites.


profits? ok yea they ARE making HUGE profits in dollars, but not in % not compared to most every other single industry

what about 10% or so the oil companies are actually profiting?

heck who could possibly run any small or half decent bussiness on 10%

note that 10% was off the top of my head, it may vary, but not by much.....

[tmgs]

I think you knew what you were doing when you made this post, but be warned, there are actually folks out there who think Bush is a great president - intelligent, gracious, wise, who has a superlative, integrated foreign and domestic policy scheme that best serves the interests of the 'merakin people in ways that will leave America better off than when he came into office. You may raise their ire.[/SARCASM_OFF]


good president or not, fact is OIL prices are not his problem.

People give the presidency WAY to much credit for things when they go bad or good for that matter

[sanjaun2]

profits? ok yea they ARE making HUGE profits in dollars, but not in % not compared to most every other single industry

what about 10% or so the oil companies are actually profiting?

heck who could possibly run any small or half decent bussiness on 10%

note that 10% was off the top of my head, it may vary, but not by much.....
Profit is profit. And any large company who makes 10 percent (or likely more) is doing well. Our largest exporter (Boeing) shoots for a 8 percent profit margin. There was a decade here not long ago where they were lucky to average 4 percent. Even with the lower profit margins the executives were living like fat slobbering pigs while the stock holders were getting dumped on and the employees loosing their jobs to the Chineese.

[Woolly]

I think you knew what you were doing when you made this post, but be warned, there are actually folks out there who think Bush is a great president .[/SARCASM_OFF]

...unfortunately, my local MP (congressman??), Tony Blair, thinks so too :(

[tmgs]

Profit is profit. And any large company who makes 10 percent (or likely more) is doing well. Our largest exporter (Boeing) shoots for a 8 percent profit margin. There was a decade here not long ago where they were lucky to average 4 percent. Even with the lower profit margins the executives were living like fat slobbering pigs while the stock holders were getting dumped on and the employees loosing their jobs to the Chineese.


i didn't say different, just making a point that the profits are low in percentage compared to most small mid size companies, are the exceptions to that rule? yes there are.

[eljeffe]

profits? ok yea they ARE making HUGE profits in dollars, but not in % not compared to most every other single industry

what about 10% or so the oil companies are actually profiting?

heck who could possibly run any small or half decent bussiness on 10%

note that 10% was off the top of my head, it may vary, but not by much.....

Last time I looked at Exxon/Mobil in the financial pages, it was closer to 8%. If any business, like IBM or CocaCola ever had profits of ONLY 8%, there would be heads rolling in the executive offices and stockholders carrying the torches to burn down the HQ offices.

[KMC1]

Did Bush also make China and India oil consumption go up too?

Who's foreign policy is it which has provided China and India (among many others) with not only the technology for their growing industrialized sectors, but also the WORK??? Oh, I'm sorry, I can't blame the President, it's not his fault.... It's not our Congress's fault, and it's not our greedy corporate "special interest lobby groups" either. That must be why in the period 2001 - 2005 there have been 60,000 (sixty THOUSAND) manufacturing COMPANIES established in China alone, by AMERICAN businesses! Don't worry, Wal-Mart is backfilling every one of those MILLIONS of manufacturing jobs with good quality part-time, no benefit, no education needed greeter positions.

Meanwhile because of the rate-cut fiasco that was needed to avoid the country going into a recession on a scale never before seen, our fearless leader has made it so the dollar is now worth about the same as the Peso... which, hey with the way immigration is going, is probably a great thing. Though not a coincidence mind you.

How much diesel fuel does a navy ship burns in a day? Any idea how many there are in the vicinity of the Middle East right now?
How much fuel is being consumed every day by planes, HUMVEES, tanks, trucks etc.? And bear in mind that all this fuel is being used to rebuild a country that is awash with oil that nevertheless we're all paying for.

Hey, when I start to think about this stuff I start to want to tell myself he's a great man with a great vision, at least if I can convince myself of it all I can sleep easier at night.

[KMC1]

Last time I looked at Exxon/Mobil in the financial pages, it was closer to 8%. If any business, like IBM or CocaCola ever had profits of ONLY 8%, there would be heads rolling in the executive offices and stockholders carrying the torches to burn down the HQ offices.

Hey, I'll take 8% of 20 MILLION barrels per DAY!
That's about $96mil/DAY PROFFIT for just America alone, off JUST the Gasoline netted from the oil, nevermind all the other uses of it.

[nightcrawler921]

Who's foreign policy is it which has provided China and India (among many others) with not only the technology for their growing industrialized sectors, but also the WORK??? Oh, I'm sorry, I can't blame the President, it's not his fault.... It's not our Congress's fault, and it's not our greedy corporate "special interest lobby groups" either. That must be why in the period 2001 - 2005 there have been 60,000 (sixty THOUSAND) manufacturing COMPANIES established in China alone, by AMERICAN businesses! Don't worry, Wal-Mart is backfilling every one of those MILLIONS of manufacturing jobs with good quality part-time, no benefit, no education needed greeter positions.

Meanwhile because of the rate-cut fiasco that was needed to avoid the country going into a recession on a scale never before seen, our fearless leader has made it so the dollar is now worth about the same as the Peso... which, hey with the way immigration is going, is probably a great thing. Though not a coincidence mind you.

How much diesel fuel does a navy ship burns in a day? Any idea how many there are in the vicinity of the Middle East right now?
How much fuel is being consumed every day by planes, HUMVEES, tanks, trucks etc.? And bear in mind that all this fuel is being used to rebuild a country that is awash with oil that nevertheless we're all paying for.

Hey, when I start to think about this stuff I start to want to tell myself he's a great man with a great vision, at least if I can convince myself of it all I can sleep easier at night.
Ouch! I think I struck a nerve. Don't get me wrong, I voted for Bush. However, lately I do not agree with a lot of things he does.
Do you honestly think that Bush and his band of merry men alone are the cause of the problems we are seeing? I think many of these problems were set into motion 10-20 years ago and both parties are to blame, as well as the American people. Nobody twisted our arms to spend like we have in the past 10 years. I think there needs to be a major overhaul of both political parties and politics in general. I don't have the solutions, thats better left to people smarter than me about these things. But at least I don't sit around pointing out all the problems and saying the only solution is to get rid of Bush.

[KMC1]

I forgot to mention the financial prowess of our President who ran his own company into the ground. Did you hear that him and Congress have committed the United States Government to approx. 3 TRILLION dollars in additional spending - in the last TWO YEARS??
Right now the tax burden is something like $546,000.00 PER American taxpayer... people better wake up cause we're going to be bankrupt soon. In fact there was an article just the other day with some financial analysts saying technically we already are bankrupt as we are not able to pay our future financial obligations. This isn't something I'm sitting around pointing fingers at, this is mainstream media reporting it.
As for your comment about sitting around crying about everything, I'm not. I've never been a politician, as you can tell, I'm a pretty straight shooter so will most likely never be a very good one. But all this crap I've been paying attention to, has spurned me to action. I'm going to be running for an aldermans position in my town to get my feet wet and try to make positive changes where I can. Also, this will be the first year I vote against the mainstream politicians in my state, it's time for change and since these boys are supposed to be REPRESENTATIVE of ME and they obviously are not, they lose my vote!!!

[hig4s]

. . . I think many of these problems were set into motion 10-20 years ago . . .


Oh, you mean when George Bush Sr. was first head of the CIA and then President, and when Rumsfield and his cronies first wrote their doctrine of America being in a unique position and needing to police the world? The same time Rumsfield suggested invading Iraq and forcing American politics into the Middle East would be good for America? Back when Bush Sr. had to distance himself from Rumsfield and his policies to keep from commiting political suicide, that 20 some years ago?

[nightcrawler921]

I forgot to mention the financial prowess of our President who ran his own company into the ground. Did you hear that him and Congress have committed the United States Government to approx. 3 TRILLION dollars in additional spending - in the last TWO YEARS??
Right now the tax burden is something like $546,000.00 PER American taxpayer... people better wake up cause we're going to be bankrupt soon. In fact there was an article just the other day with some financial analysts saying technically we already are bankrupt as we are not able to pay our future financial obligations. This isn't something I'm sitting around pointing fingers at, this is mainstream media reporting it.
As for your comment about sitting around crying about everything, I'm not. I've never been a politician, as you can tell, I'm a pretty straight shooter so will most likely never be a very good one. But all this crap I've been paying attention to, has spurned me to action. I'm going to be running for an aldermans position in my town to get my feet wet and try to make positive changes where I can. Also, this will be the first year I vote against the mainstream politicians in my state, it's time for change and since these boys are supposed to be REPRESENTATIVE of ME and they obviously are not, they lose my vote!!!
Ok, I misjudged you. You are trying to make a difference. Good luck on your run for Alderman.

As for the original comment I made, I was merely trying to point out that there are a lot of things driving the oil market, especially fund traders.

Now the National deficit, that is scary no matter who you are. I agree with your comment about voting against the mainstream, they have really lost touch with reality. I have voted Republican for years, but find it really hard to get on board with this religous right agenda they are pushing.

Also, never accused you of crying, just finger pointing.:D

[nightcrawler921]

Oh, you mean when George Bush Sr. was first head of the CIA and then President, and when Rumsfield and his cronies first wrote their doctrine of America being in a unique position and needing to police the world? The same time Rumsfield suggested invading Iraq and forcing American politics into the Middle East would be good for America? Back when Bush Sr. had to distance himself from Rumsfield and his policies to keep from commiting political suicide, that 20 some years ago?

Touche. I have always said, You don't spend that many years in the CIA without making some enemies(and friends in dark places).

[sanjaun2]

Kevin I couldnt agree with you more, I hope you run and win. And now back to the oil companies..... Am I missing something???? Lets make this simple so I do not get confused. Lets say a barrel of oil sells for 100 dollars, It costs the oil company 70 dollars to purchase and market including the little peoples wages. Now the big piggies on top take 22 dollars a barrel for there wages, bonuses, hookers,vacations, 4 homes each, cars, severance packages, retirement plans, and any other back door loophole. Yes I do believe there is only 8 percent profit left. Have I made a mistake here?
Do you people not see the middle class shrinking? We have a national debt that we will not be able to payoff and that means sooner or later your middle class or upper middle class life style will come crashing down. Unless your getting on in the years and that means your children will pay the price. Live for today because you maybe in for a surprise tomorrow

[nightcrawler921]

One thing everybody is missing is that Oil is a commodity traded on an open market. If the product you were producing tripled in price what would you do with the profits?

[RT_COOP]

Oil is one of the few products where you can pass all of you additional costs on to the customer, with your usual margins. In my business, stuff costs me more, there is only so much I can do to raise my price when costs rise, my profit shrinks. Look at airlines, hate them as you may, they are forced to lower their prices and pay more for fuel - what a headache they must be suffering. It would sure be nice if that extra profit for the resale of oil was going against our national debt or funding oil independence programs, but forgive me, I'm dreaming.

[nightcrawler921]

Oil is one of the few products where you can pass all of you additional costs on to the customer, with your usual margins. In my business, stuff costs me more, there is only so much I can do to raise my price when costs rise, my profit shrinks. Look at airlines, hate them as you may, they are forced to lower their prices and pay more for fuel - what a headache they must be suffering. It would sure be nice if that extra profit for the resale of oil was going against our national debt or funding oil independence programs, but forgive me, I'm dreaming.
The extra profit from oil is going towards the national debt, in the form of Income Tax paid by the oil companies.

[tmgs]

Who's foreign policy is it which has provided China and India (among many others) with not only the technology for their growing industrialized sectors, but also the WORK??? Oh, I'm sorry, I can't blame the President, it's not his fault.... It's not our Congress's fault, and it's not our greedy corporate "special interest lobby groups" either. That must be why in the period 2001 - 2005 there have been 60,000 (sixty THOUSAND) manufacturing COMPANIES established in China alone, by AMERICAN businesses! Don't worry, Wal-Mart is backfilling every one of those MILLIONS of manufacturing jobs with good quality part-time, no benefit, no education needed greeter positions.

Meanwhile because of the rate-cut fiasco that was needed to avoid the country going into a recession on a scale never before seen, our fearless leader has made it so the dollar is now worth about the same as the Peso... which, hey with the way immigration is going, is probably a great thing. Though not a coincidence mind you.

How much diesel fuel does a navy ship burns in a day? Any idea how many there are in the vicinity of the Middle East right now?
How much fuel is being consumed every day by planes, HUMVEES, tanks, trucks etc.? And bear in mind that all this fuel is being used to rebuild a country that is awash with oil that nevertheless we're all paying for.

Hey, when I start to think about this stuff I start to want to tell myself he's a great man with a great vision, at least if I can convince myself of it all I can sleep easier at night.


who's really to blame?

the consumer, don't like it, don't buy stuff made in china or wherever, problem is everyone is greedy we will buy from anywhere to save a buck (heck many times less than a buck) it will put every US manufacture out of bussiness eventually, just look at all the item for the LT, hoiw many are actually produced here or in Germany for that matter.

it is a double edged sword, we want to save our money, you me every bussiness owner. so places like china get the work.

[KMC1]

Seems to me the thing we ALL need to do is walk the walk. I try, I bought an Ariens snowblower, a Weber grill, I drive a Chevy and an Olds, I have no foreign made guns, my motorcycles are German or British made, (I'd get a H-D but come on, some sacrifices are just too much to ask :D ) my bicycles are Cannondales and my hand tools are Stanley or Milwaukee as much as possible - But try to buy a pair of Levi's, or a T.V. that isn't made in a 2 dollar a week sweatshop... so ultimately, we all contribute. We go around the world telling everyone they need to be honorable like us, meanwhile we have mexicans pouring over the border to take jobs at wages Americans won't work for, we consume resources at rates which are non-sustainable in our hyper consumer - capitalist society, meanwhile we are trying to expand the list of countries who are capitalists, what will our stance be when there isn't water for drinking, or air for breathing? What about Global Warming?
In regards to oil though, we are using over 20.4 million barrels per day, yet we have the technology right here in Connecticut to produce fuel cells at UTC that can power homes, businesses & cars. There is solar, hydro, wind and now wave energy sources which are not being utilized. Hell, even the fuel mileage estimates on our vehicles are not truthfull.
There is just too much money at stake for our president and his family and friends to bother weening us off of oil for at least another 100 years or more - Global Warming be damned. It's not as if he needs to worry about his ranch going under water anytime soon.

[tmgs]

Seems to me the thing we ALL need to do is walk the walk. I try, I bought an Ariens snowblower, a Weber grill, I drive a Chevy and an Olds, I have no foreign made guns, my motorcycles are German or British made, (I'd get a H-D but come on, some sacrifices are just too much to ask :D ) my bicycles are Cannondales and my hand tools are Stanley or Milwaukee as much as possible - But try to buy a pair of Levi's, or a T.V. that isn't made in a 2 dollar a week sweatshop... so ultimately, we all contribute. We go around the world telling everyone they need to be honorable like us, meanwhile we have mexicans pouring over the border to take jobs at wages Americans won't work for, we consume resources at rates which are non-sustainable in our hyper consumer - capitalist society, meanwhile we are trying to expand the list of countries who are capitalists, what will our stance be when there isn't water for drinking, or air for breathing? What about Global Warming?
In regards to oil though, we are using over 20.4 million barrels per day, yet we have the technology right here in Connecticut to produce fuel cells at UTC that can power homes, businesses & cars. There is solar, hydro, wind and now wave energy sources which are not being utilized. Hell, even the fuel mileage estimates on our vehicles are not truthfull.
There is just too much money at stake for our president and his family and friends to bother weening us off of oil for at least another 100 years or more - Global Warming be damned. It's not as if he needs to worry about his ranch going under water anytime soon.


it is darn near if not impossible to buy products that have nothing to do with some type of importing, even our faithfull american made cars bikes trucks whatever all have parts made from outside the US.
Japan, mexico, china, germany, canada the list goes on and on. blameing the presidency (no matter who's side is in at the time) just doe not cut the cake, it's total BS. the democrats have been just as bad as republicans on this issue.

[zaphod]

... there are actually folks out there who think Bush is a great president - intelligent, gracious, wise, who has a superlative, integrated foreign and domestic policy... [/SARCASM_OFF]

And for an example of his "greatness" just look at http://www.chortler.com/24777bushmerk.shtml

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

[petepeterson]

RT_COOP the MAJORITY of Americans do think he is a good President,,, You sir are in the minority....
Our classified and secret products and science have been stolen and given away since 1948.... The peak years being 1977 to 1980 and all of the 1990's...In fact it was that airhead Clinton who took classified materials(like rocket,computer chips,navigation systems and such) and moved their overseas sale approval from the DOD to the National Chamber of Commerce, really a smart move don't you think???

zaphod,, go find the rest of that news clip where the films shows the man walk in front of the camera then shows the German Chancellor laughing ;) ..

ya liberals sure are getting good at twisting reality to suit your own weird agenda :rolleyes: ............Regards Pete

[KMC1]

RT_COOP the MAJORITY of Americans do think he is a good President,,, You sir are in the minority....
Our classified and secret products and science have been stolen and given away since 1948.... The peak years being 1977 to 1980 and all of the 1990's...In fact it was that airhead Clinton who took classified materials(like rocket,computer chips,navigation systems and such) and moved their overseas sale approval from the DOD to the National Chamber of Commerce, really a smart move don't you think???

zaphod,, go find the rest of that news clip where the films shows the man walk in front of the camera then shows the German Chancellor laughing ;) ..

ya liberals sure are getting good at twisting reality to suit your own weird agenda :rolleyes: ............Regards Pete

Um, last I heard his approval rating is 53% negative 36% positive and 11% nambi pambis who are too scared to have an opinion - who's twisting reality? Um....
Furthermore, I don't JUST blame Bush, I've included Congress several times in my criticisms.

[hig4s]

RT_COOP the MAJORITY of Americans do think he is a good President,,, You sir are in the minority....
Our classified and secret products and science have been stolen and given away since 1948.... The peak years being 1977 to 1980 and all of the 1990's...In fact it was that airhead Clinton who took classified materials(like rocket,computer chips,navigation systems and such) and moved their overseas sale approval from the DOD to the National Chamber of Commerce, really a smart move don't you think???

zaphod,, go find the rest of that news clip where the films shows the man walk in front of the camera then shows the German Chancellor laughing ;) ..

ya liberals sure are getting good at twisting reality to suit your own weird agenda :rolleyes: ............Regards Pete

WHAT? while it has come up a little, GW had the lowest approval rating ever just a few months ago,, certainly not a majority of people thinking he is a good president.


And have we all forgotten the news surrounding the oil companies at the begining of the year.

http://skeptically.org/oil/id10.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1902366&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[petepeterson]

:rolleyes: Silly boys!!! You take your polls which show nothing at all, and I'll take the last two elections,,,Hmmmm, ol Bush won those two polls didn't he?? :D :D .....Regards Pete

[sanjaun2]

WHAT? while it has come up a little, GW had the lowest approval rating ever just a few months ago,, certainly not a majority of people thinking he is a good president.


And have we all forgotten the news surrounding the oil companies at the begining of the year.

http://skeptically.org/oil/id10.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1902366&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
I thought about replying about his approval rating also. But decided I would be wasting my time. Sounds like he voted for him twice. Obviously didn't learn the first time.

[meese]

:rolleyes: Silly boys!!! You take your polls which show nothing at all, and I'll take the last two elections,,,Hmmmm, ol Bush won those two polls didn't he?? :D :D .....Regards PeteThat's arguable . . .

[hoog62]

...no, no it's not.

[tmgs]

hehehehhe, yup, I love polls, they are funny, have you actually even been polled? I know of no one that has yet......

I think whoever (mostly the one sided media) walks around the office and tells them how toi make thier poll,

it;s a democrats media ya know !

a conspiracy I say!

Tom (that should get some good replies <g>)

[nightcrawler921]

WHAT? while it has come up a little, GW had the lowest approval rating ever just a few months ago,, certainly not a majority of people thinking he is a good president.


And have we all forgotten the news surrounding the oil companies at the begining of the year.

http://skeptically.org/oil/id10.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1902366&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
Your second link refers to the Windfall Profits Tax. It didn't work the first time they did this to the oil industry. In fact it is partially to blame for the mess we are in. The oil companies quit investing in new exploration and a lot of independents went out of business. Domestic production went down and we became more dependent on imports. Also if oil had risen at the same rate as housing, food, prescriptions, etc over the last 20 years it would be close to the price it is today. It just happened to rise quickly over a three year period. Oil was $10.00 a barrel in June of 1986 and was $20.00 a barrel in June of 2003. During that period it rose briefly to a high of $32.00. We all thought cheap oil was a great thing, but nobody realized how dependent we were becoming on foreign oil because domestic producers had no incentive to look for more oil.

[KMC1]

OK, well if we decide to do our own poll put me down on the side that says GWB is a maniacal, opportunistic, elitist, meglomaniac with a God complex... and NO I don't think he's doing a good job.
I do agree with you that $4.00 gas is going to produce some much needed innovation throughout the market place.

[petepeterson]

;) Sorry KMC1 but all those big words really mean is that Bush disagrees with you, but he's right.. :D The left leaning peace at any cost attitude does us no good at all.. We are lucky we had a President with balls these last 5 years or we could be learning Arabic right now :( ....

Meese, there is no argument at all,, who has been the Prez since Jan 20th 2001?? He was duly elected twice,ya'll need to get over it ;) ............Regards Pete

[sanjaun2]

Pete,
Your next president Hillary is twice the man GW will ever be.

[hoog62]

You think gay marriage brought the Republicans out? Run Hillary and watch what happens. The Dems can't be that clueless.

Either side runs a true moderate and he will win in a landslide.

[petepeterson]

I heard that is how Hillary and Bill met,, dating the same girl in collage :D .........Regards Pete

[tmgs]

I heard that is how Hillary and Bill met,, dating the same girl in collage :D .........Regards Pete

Ouch!

[hig4s]

:rolleyes: Silly boys!!! You take your polls which show nothing at all, and I'll take the last two elections,,,Hmmmm, ol Bush won those two polls didn't he?? :D :D .....Regards Pete


Ahh!! No!!! is has been shown that in the first election, if the Florida recount would have been allowed to be done correctly, which the Repulican appointed by GW's brother Gov. Jeb Bush did not allow, he would have NOT carried Florida and would have lost the election. As it is in the first election he won on electoral votes (an antiquated system that should be removed) but lost on popular vote, which having Gore (of all people) get more of the popular vote than Bush in itself proves most people did not think he was a good choice.

[hig4s]

;) Sorry KMC1 but all those big words really mean is that Bush disagrees with you, but he's right.. :D The left leaning peace at any cost attitude does us no good at all.. We are lucky we had a President with balls these last 5 years or we could be learning Arabic right now :( ....

Meese, there is no argument at all,, who has been the Prez since Jan 20th 2001?? He was duly elected twice,ya'll need to get over it ;) ............Regards Pete


I was in the military at the end of Nam, and this is the same useless crap. If Bush Sr. had not put Bin Laden, and Hussein in power to start with, and then let Hussein off the hook during Desert Storm, we wouldn't have the mess we have now, and going over there now has just made it worse.
Iraq never had any potential to attack the US,, he could of at the worst attacked one of the countries in the Middle East, and as soon as he did, there would have been UN support to go in and at least the US would not be in there virtually alone taking on the whole problem.

[hoog62]

The State enforced the rules that were in place before the election.

[RT_COOP]

Gore's gotta be getting a bit of satisfaction at witnessing Harris' current flameout. Agree with him or not you have to agree the guy is on an upswing.

[hig4s]

The State enforced the rules that were in place before the election.


Not true,,and not that simple, by Florida law and courts, the extended hand recount should have been counted and it was not.

in the end it was a states rights issue.

December 8: Divided 4-3, the Florida Supreme Court orders manual recounts in all counties with significant numbers of presidential undervotes; Bush appeals the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court and seeks injunctive relief to stop the hand recounts. The Florida Legislature meets to begin the process of choosing electors on its own. Circuit judges in Tallahassee rule against Democratic challenges to absentee ballots in Martin and Seminole counties.

December 9: The U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5-4 ruling, halts the manual recounts and sets a hearing on the matter two days later.

December 11: Bush's lawyers argue before the U.S. Supreme Court in that the Florida high court again overstepped its bounds by ordering a manual recount of undervotes in Gore's election contest. Gore's lawyers argue that the U.S. Supreme Court has no reason to intervene in the state court contest.

[hoog62]

There were rules in place that invalidated ballots under certain conditions. If those ballots that did not meet the definition were thrown out, Bush wins. Those rules have since been loosened, and probably rightly so.

IIRC, Gore's team attempted to exclude legitimate absentee ballots, and get a biased recount of hand picked counties included. They failed on both counts, and that is what pushed them past the deadline that the US SC allowed to be enforced.

This has long since been a moot point, and I am working off of memory here. I'm not sure there has ever been a completely non-partial count done. After Gore conceded, I think the pro Bush folks let it drop. Had Gore won, it would be the Republicans still trying to prove otherwise. I have no doubt about that.